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Final Fantasy 7 Advent Children
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I agree the animation was amazing, but the storyline was just so stupid.
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Being emo is popular in Japan. All of the cool characters do it. Cloud does it, and they love him for it. Sasuke (from Naruto) does it, and he's the most popular character in the series. Katsushirou (Samurai 7) did it, and he has girls falling all over him in the anime. Being emo isn't nearly as well-received in the Americas. Their plots are structured differently as well, and so we might not find them to be spectacular.
Really, I just enjoyed the movie because it made the characters I loved from FFVII come to life as impressively-rendered figures to do a bunch of totally awesome fighting.
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Originally posted by: Everescent
There was a storyline? I must have missed that among all the ass-kicking and sweet effects. Honestly, in terms of coming up with stories (for movies and animes, not necessarily for video games), I don't really give the Japanese much credit. I take everything with a grain of salt, because their culture is vastly different from ours, and as anyone who has been to Japan will tell you, Japanese TV is terrible. This is a generalization, of course; there are animes, movies, etc. out there, made in Japan, with good plots, but I simply don't put as much weight on it when I'm watching something that's been brought over from Japan and subbed, because it's not going to cater to my westernized tastes.
Being emo is popular in Japan. All of the cool characters do it. Cloud does it, and they love him for it. Sasuke (from Naruto) does it, and he's the most popular character in the series. Katsushirou (Samurai 7) did it, and he has girls falling all over him in the anime. Being emo isn't nearly as well-received in the Americas. Their plots are structured differently as well, and so we might not find them to be spectacular.
Really, I just enjoyed the movie because it made the characters I loved from FFVII come to life as impressively-rendered figures to do a bunch of totally awesome fighting.
There was a storyline? I must have missed that among all the ass-kicking and sweet effects. Honestly, in terms of coming up with stories (for movies and animes, not necessarily for video games), I don't really give the Japanese much credit. I take everything with a grain of salt, because their culture is vastly different from ours, and as anyone who has been to Japan will tell you, Japanese TV is terrible. This is a generalization, of course; there are animes, movies, etc. out there, made in Japan, with good plots, but I simply don't put as much weight on it when I'm watching something that's been brought over from Japan and subbed, because it's not going to cater to my westernized tastes.
Being emo is popular in Japan. All of the cool characters do it. Cloud does it, and they love him for it. Sasuke (from Naruto) does it, and he's the most popular character in the series. Katsushirou (Samurai 7) did it, and he has girls falling all over him in the anime. Being emo isn't nearly as well-received in the Americas. Their plots are structured differently as well, and so we might not find them to be spectacular.
Really, I just enjoyed the movie because it made the characters I loved from FFVII come to life as impressively-rendered figures to do a bunch of totally awesome fighting.
What the hell are you talking about?! Animes usually are ten times more in-depth and story driven than most American cartoons (or even live action shows, for that matter).
Look at Monster, Kino's Journey, Evangelion, Trigun, Most all Gundam series (with a few exceptions), Paranoia Agent, DNAngel. These are just ones I was able to come up with OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. If I were to actually sit down and try to compile a full list, I'm POSITIVE I could get in excess of 50 anime which are all driven by the plot and are not just "senseless action."
Of course animes like DBZ or Naruto are going to be more about the ACTION than the story, but they're SHOUNEN JUMP. They're intended for CHILDREN, even over in Japan. The target audience for Naruto is like, 10 - 15 over there. That's why generally these animes are FROWNED UPON, even in the major anime sub-society. Really, when was the last time you saw someone over the age of 15 talking about how SUPER COOL Dragon Ball Z was?
But you know, you must be right. SpongeBob Square Pants is obviously so much more story driven than any Japanese cartoon!
Also, the "ass-kicking" in AC was RIDICULOUS. It wasn't "BADASS" or "SUPER NEAT LOL XD" it was just plain annoying. I mean, obviously the action doesn't need to be REALISTIC, but they broke the suspension of disbelief. I've played through the game several times. It's my second favorite game of all time. But y'know, I don't remember Cloud ever flipping around in the air and then cutting through a motorcycle which was hurled at him by a guy who used his legs to throw it and nothing but one of his arms to support him. I also don't remember him ever jumping literally THOUSANDS of feet into the air so that he can kill a SUMMON MONSTER. I also don't remember him ever being able to take a gun shot DIRECTLY TO HIS FACE from point blank range and not being hurt at all (save a small scratch).
Here's a few shots to show you what I'm talking about (in case you haven't seen the movie):
Throwing a motorcycle
Flipping around in midair to cut through the motorcycle
Being shot in the face from point blank range
It sure was a good thing he had those secret deflective sunglasses! XD
I hate to think what would have happened if he hadn't been wearing them! XD
Also, the story wasn't just BAD. It was COUNTER PRODUCTIVE to the plot of the GAME! It wasn't consistent or accurate at all! I mean, everything from the major problems (Rufus working with Kadaj) to the tiniest little details which you would think they'd be able to fix (the summon materia was blue instead of red). It seriously felt like the writer and director HADN'T EVEN PLAYED THE GAME.
Also, that whole "lol japanese love emo" statement was so stupid. There are just as much "emos" (i hate that term) on American TV as Japanese. Hell, some of the most popular teen shows of ALL TIME had "emos" as the main stars. Look at the OC for crying out loud! Or even Dawson's Creek! They might not of had the look, but they had the attitude.
Also, Sasuke was the most popular character even BEFORE he went emo. He's always been popular because he's BADASS and STRONG. He didn't turn emo until episode 107, when he first realizes that Naruto is stronger than him. The point is, people love him for being BADASS, not emo. His popularity has actually GONE DOWN since he turned emo. He's not even in the opening or closing credits currently!
Ugh. You know, there are SO MANY THINGS wrong with this movie. I honestly could go ON AND ON about how it's terrible, but something tells me you wont listen and don't care. The bottom line is: People who like a movie like AC probably like any kind of "extreme super cool action movie" that's spoonfed to them.
So here are some recommendations for other '05 movies I think you'll enjoy:
Into the Blue.
The Transporter 2.
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Also, I forgot to add this: FF7 (the game) had one of the most IN-DEPTH STORYLINES IN ANY GAME EVER. That's why it was so revolutionary. It was one of the first console games to have more than 20 hours of gameplay. There was so much going on and so many sub plots. What I'm trying to say here is this: If FF7 the game had a CRAZY in-depth story, then you would EXPECT a sequel to have a GREAT story as well. Don't compare Advent Children to animes like Naruto. Compare it to the game which it's meant to be paired with.
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Originally posted by: sean wookie
I liked it but I dont expect people like you to understand why.
I liked it but I dont expect people like you to understand why.
Why? Explain it. As far as I can tell, there are only three POSSIBLE reasons anyone could like this movie.
1) They enjoy the animation so much, that they overlook the plot and script.
2) They enjoy the action so much, they overlook the plot and script.
3) They enjoy anything with the name "Final Fantasy" in it so much, they overlook the plot and script.
These are all pretty crappy reasons to actually commend a movie. SURE the animation was excellent. It was BEAUTIFUL! But just good CG is NOT enough to make a decent movie (Prequels, anyone?).
Of course the action was cool! It was right on par with DBZ! I love watching people flying around in the air punching each other and driving around on motorcycles doing impossible stunts. BUT, that doesn't belong in an FF7 movie. FF7's story was so AMAZINGLY COMPLEX, and this movie, which is suppose to be a sequel, doesn't even come CLOSE to having a good story. If it had been "Generic Action Movie #109209129," then it possibly could have been half way decent once you took into account the animation.
But it's not "Generic Action Movie #109209129." It's "Final Fantasy 7 : Advent Children."
The entire movie revolves around COOL ACTION, whereas the entire game revolves around story. Jesus christ, have you even PLAYED the game? It escapes me how ANY serious fan of the game could actually ENJOY this movie. AC did to FF7 what TPM did to Star Wars.
If there is some DEEPER MEANING for your enjoyment of the film, please, enlighten me! Let me know how someone could find enjoyment in such an inane, pointless, flawed movie. I'm really dying to know.
Actually, scratch that. You can waste your time with LOL COOL ACTION. I'd prefer to waste mine with LOL INTERNET.
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You can insult me all you like by claiming that I'm among the people for whom this movie was tailored, but I don't see how that could possibly be insulting. Yes, I like things that are awesome. So does much of the main-stream media consumers. That's why the movie was so successful. You know what would have really sucked? If for all the fight scenes, everyone lined up on their respective sides of the battlefield, ran at one another and whacked each other with their weapon or shot or whatever, then went back to their side. You want realism? Go find a different genre. What the hell do you want from Cloud, who is wielding a weapon of his size in the first place?
As for your argument of the plot being a big let down, you're right, it did follow the Final Fantasy game that had, arguably, the deepest and best plot of them all. Not only is it hard to fill those shoes, but it's hard to do so in an hour and a half of screen time when the game itself took days.
It's clear that you and I differ fundamentally on several points that simply cannot be reconciled, so I agree to disagree, and whether or not you do is up to you. However, as a final point, I'd like to say that you're the first person I've heard complain more than passingly about the plot, and give the movie anything worse than a "really good." Everyone I know (all of whom have, for the record, played the game through to completion, and many of them even went through the excruciating process of breeding the mighty gold chocobo) loved the movie, even if they thought the plot was nothing special. This is not a point I debate, by the way- the plot was nothing special.
Regardless, I can see that I'm going to have to be more careful with the arguments I make now that I know that there are people on these forums that can formulate a logical counter to them. My hat goes off to you.
EDIT: As an additional note, towards the whole argument of getting shot in the face and having a scratch, this is pretty consistent throughout the entire movie. You'll note in the final motorcycle scene, Cloud slices the long-haired secondary villain in the face, twice, and it does virtually nothing. He also kicks the short-haired guy (Loz?) into the motorcycle, which explodes. This is an accurate representation of the HP system at work, which they really didn't try to disguise. Sephiroth also slashes Cloud so hard that it propels him straight up to the top of a building of several stories before the actual fight proper begins between those two. If you're going to talk about issues with realism and such, at least bring up things like this. Getting shot in the head is really just one of many instances where someone takes something they shouldn't be able to.
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"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide
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Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
I LIKED IT BECAUSE IT WAS VISUALLY STUNNING, AND THE MUSIC WAS SUPERB.
Alright, I'll give you that the music was great. But wasn't, like, 90% of it just rehashed from the game? I don't remember many original tracks in it, but I could be wrong.
Everescent - Yeah, let's just agree to disagree.
But there are a few quick points I want to bring up.
This at least has an explanation. Cloud is PUMPED FULL of Mako. Mako increases his strength. But it does it to a believable extent. It doesn't give him the power to jump HUNDREDS OF FEET and to take SWORDS AND GUNS directly to the face all the time. It makes him He-Man, not Superman.
As for your edit: If I took the time to list EVERY SINGLE THING in the movie that broke the suspension of disbelief, my post obviously would have been MUCH LONGER. I only pointed out a few things because I didn't want to take the time to LIST EVERYTHING and ANALYZE it, but I still wanted to get my point across.
And there you have it. Some people can appreciate a good thing, even if it was preceeded by and associated with an even better thing.
I LIKED IT BECAUSE IT WAS VISUALLY STUNNING, AND THE MUSIC WAS SUPERB.
Alright, I'll give you that the music was great. But wasn't, like, 90% of it just rehashed from the game? I don't remember many original tracks in it, but I could be wrong.
Everescent - Yeah, let's just agree to disagree.
But there are a few quick points I want to bring up.
You know what would have really sucked? If for all the fight scenes, everyone lined up on their respective sides of the battlefield, ran at one another and whacked each other with their weapon or shot or whatever, then went back to their side.
People always try bringing up this argument, but I just don't see how it works. There is an obvious middle between DBZ style action (the kind in the film) and RPG style action (the kind in the game). I don't see how people fail to see the OBVIOUS middle between the two. That's what I was expecting the movie to have, the middle kind. The action just got WAY to over the top and corny, and in the end, just ruined a lot of scenes. The ONLY fight scene which I think was GOOD and ACCURATE to the game was the Tifa fight in the Church. If you watch the movie, you can tell there's a huge difference between that fight, and almost all the others.
First off, action films and sci-fi films CAN have realism. There's no reason to "find a different genre" just because I'm looking for some BELIEVEABILITY. But to be honest, I'm NOT a big action film fan.
Let me put it this way. There are two types of movies: Brain on movies, and brain off movies. Sure we all love the occasional brain off movie. But I was expecting a sequel to FF7 to be a VERY big brain on movie. Instead, it was a brain off.
What the hell do you want from Cloud, who is wielding a weapon of his size in the first place?
People always try bringing up this argument, but I just don't see how it works. There is an obvious middle between DBZ style action (the kind in the film) and RPG style action (the kind in the game). I don't see how people fail to see the OBVIOUS middle between the two. That's what I was expecting the movie to have, the middle kind. The action just got WAY to over the top and corny, and in the end, just ruined a lot of scenes. The ONLY fight scene which I think was GOOD and ACCURATE to the game was the Tifa fight in the Church. If you watch the movie, you can tell there's a huge difference between that fight, and almost all the others.
You want realism? Go find a different genre.
First off, action films and sci-fi films CAN have realism. There's no reason to "find a different genre" just because I'm looking for some BELIEVEABILITY. But to be honest, I'm NOT a big action film fan.
Let me put it this way. There are two types of movies: Brain on movies, and brain off movies. Sure we all love the occasional brain off movie. But I was expecting a sequel to FF7 to be a VERY big brain on movie. Instead, it was a brain off.
What the hell do you want from Cloud, who is wielding a weapon of his size in the first place?
This at least has an explanation. Cloud is PUMPED FULL of Mako. Mako increases his strength. But it does it to a believable extent. It doesn't give him the power to jump HUNDREDS OF FEET and to take SWORDS AND GUNS directly to the face all the time. It makes him He-Man, not Superman.
As for your edit: If I took the time to list EVERY SINGLE THING in the movie that broke the suspension of disbelief, my post obviously would have been MUCH LONGER. I only pointed out a few things because I didn't want to take the time to LIST EVERYTHING and ANALYZE it, but I still wanted to get my point across.
And there you have it. Some people can appreciate a good thing, even if it was preceeded by and associated with an even better thing.
C'mon. GOOD CGI and GOOD MUSIC does not automatically make a movie GOOD. I mean, honestly, are you listening to what you're saying? Since when has "it looked pretty" been a valid reason to call a movie GOOD. Seeing as how you're at OT.com, I'd assume you'd all realize that GOOD SCORE and GOOD CGI do NOT make a good movie. Ugh! TPM had a great score, and at the time, beautiful CGI. But it strongly lacked in story. Most of you hated it. How is it any different than AC?
The prequels were all preceeded and associated with a greater thing, and most of you DIDN'T appreciate them. So I don't see how you have any room to talk about AC as if it was some AMAZING MASTERPIECE.
I admit that AC's CG and music were AMAZING. But did you guys actually pay attention to the rest? You admitted, Everescent, that the story isn't good. But how can you like a movie which is suppose to be STORY DRIVEN when it doesn't have a good story?! I just don't understand it. Please, explain to me WHAT IS SO AMAZING ABOUT THIS MOVIE, and don't use "looks" and "sounds" as an example. I don't want to hear about the surface of the movie, tell me what it was about the core. The SUBSTANCE. I bet you can't, because there WAS NO CORE. It was an empty shell.
Maybe a beautiful shell, but still an empty one. And I just don't understand how people can find an empty shell so amazing. I don't understand how you can like something ONLY for it's looks, and completely ignore the fact that it has no substance to it.
Like you said, I guess we just have fundamental differences in opinion. So we're really not gonna get anywhere in this debate. I guess I brought up more than just a "few quick points." Sorry!
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This isn't really going to be a serious post, just reiterating what I said earlier about fundamental differences in opinion about what makes a movie good. When you take away "looks" and "sounds," all you really have is that people are watching the characters they've come to love being brought to life. When you add looks and sounds, they are being brought to life in incredibly impressive and commendable detail with good voice acting. The movie takes on a sort of unspoken story of its own because you know all about these characters. You know their history together, you know the perils they faced and the battles they fought. You are these characters, because you've been through the game and you know what it's about. This movie lets you relive a little of that, even if the story is inferior to the game.
The fact of the matter is that some people can still appreciate that beautiful outer shell, independant of the core that may or may not house. They appreciate the shell because they know that it was part of the clam at one point, and that clam was at one point a fabulous thing that they will probably never see again. Seeing that same shell decorated, enhanced, fortified, and beautified, still makes it great. For some people. Obviously not for you, and, well, that's fine. That's where we differ.
This argument falls in line with your "Love it because it's Final Fantasy" argument. Well, it's true.
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"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide
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I wanted to like this movie but I still have no idea what happened in it. Was it just a tech demo that somehow got released as a movie by mistake?