- Time
- Post link
- Time
- Post link
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
Inserting deleted scene of Yoda's exile into ANH?? — Page 2
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: Scruffy
Threepio wasn't mind-wiped. The order was given, but never carried out. (Yes, I am a shameless Saxonite.)
Threepio wasn't mind-wiped. The order was given, but never carried out. (Yes, I am a shameless Saxonite.)
Yes he was. R2 never had a memory wipe, but 3P0 obviously did. to Owen: Sir my first job was programming binary load-lifters....
What first job???? Of course, this could just be another of Georgie-boy's (many) fuckups, and the memory wipe was used to explain why 3P0 had no idea that Anakin built him (then again, I HATED THAT TOO)
Anakin was an OLD MAN when he died, therefore his ghost should be old too AND WITH EYEBROWS
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: Scruffy
Threepio wasn't mind-wiped. The order was given, but never carried out. (Yes, I am a shameless Saxonite.)
Threepio wasn't mind-wiped. The order was given, but never carried out. (Yes, I am a shameless Saxonite.)
I've read a lot of that, and it seems to have been written before Revenge of the Sith, since it misses a lot of plot points that occurred there, like Obi-Wan and R2 having a lot of direct contact with each other. And I really don't think that even George would write in that all-important mind wipe line if it wasn't actually going to happen. I mean, the whole point was to cover his ass.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
- Time
- Post link
BAIL ORGANA: I'm placing these droids in your care. Treat them well. Clean them up. Have the Protocol Droid's mind wiped. Oh and while you're at it.. see all those people sitting watching this film? Have their minds wiped as well.
OBI-WAN WALKS BACK ON SCREEN, LOOKS DIRECTLY AT CAMERA, TOUCHES HIS INDEX FINGER TO HIS THUMB AND SLOWLY WAVES HIS HAND AT SCREEN.
OBI-WAN: You don't NEED to watch any further. These were NOT the prequels you were looking for. You never SAW any of them. Move along....
OBI-WAN WALKS BACK ON SCREEN, LOOKS DIRECTLY AT CAMERA, TOUCHES HIS INDEX FINGER TO HIS THUMB AND SLOWLY WAVES HIS HAND AT SCREEN.
OBI-WAN: You don't NEED to watch any further. These were NOT the prequels you were looking for. You never SAW any of them. Move along....
- Time
- Post link
- Time
- Post link
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
- Time
- Post link
....Oh Jesus.
- Time
- Post link
Could you sit a Star Wars virgin down and show him the films in chronological order without ruining the dramatic tension of IV, V, and VI? The answer is no. The impact of "I...am your father!" is reduced from a revelation to a "Well, duh!" moment for the audience.
The original Star Wars trilogy has nothing to do with the prequels from a narrative standpoint. IV, V, and VI tell a story on their own--the story of the rise of the Rebellion and the fall of the Empire. The prequels tell their own story also: the fall of the Republic/Annakin and the rise of the Empire/Vader.
The two trilogies present two completely different narratives, and the actions and events in each shouldn't be intermingled in a lame attempt to tie them together. The prequels would've been much better had they been treated as a distinct story without so many homages to IV, V, and VI. Natural connections between the two stories would've developed instead of the manufactured connections we had thrown in our faces like Vader building 3PO. Could it be any more contrived?
The prequels don't stand well on their own, and the same forced connections that make the prequels lame are poisoning the original trilogy. Hayden in ROTJ? Yoda in ANH? Just stop it already!
MTFBWY…A
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: battlewars
scotty balls rules!
scotty balls rules!
Is that sarcasm I detect here?
Anakin was an OLD MAN when he died, therefore his ghost should be old too AND WITH EYEBROWS
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: Scotty Balls
Is that sarcasm I detect here?
not at allOriginally posted by: battlewars
scotty balls rules!
scotty balls rules!
Is that sarcasm I detect here?
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: Jay
All these ideas about incorporating things into the OT come from viewers seeing the two trilogies as a series of chronological events instead of films that are trying to tell a story. This is made evident by the many fans who say the films should be watched in chronological order because that obeys the timeline in which the events occurred. That's so backward from a storytelling standpoint I simply don't understand the appeal of it.
Could you sit a Star Wars virgin down and show him the films in chronological order without ruining the dramatic tension of IV, V, and VI? The answer is no. The impact of "I...am your father!" is reduced from a revelation to a "Well, duh!" moment for the audience.
The original Star Wars trilogy has nothing to do with the prequels from a narrative standpoint. IV, V, and VI tell a story on their own--the story of the rise of the Rebellion and the fall of the Empire. The prequels tell their own story also: the fall of the Republic/Annakin and the rise of the Empire/Vader.
The two trilogies present two completely different narratives, and the actions and events in each shouldn't be intermingled in a lame attempt to tie them together. The prequels would've been much better had they been treated as a distinct story without so many homages to IV, V, and VI. Natural connections between the two stories would've developed instead of the manufactured connections we had thrown in our faces like Vader building 3PO. Could it be any more contrived?
The prequels don't stand well on their own, and the same forced connections that make the prequels lame are poisoning the original trilogy. Hayden in ROTJ? Yoda in ANH? Just stop it already!
All these ideas about incorporating things into the OT come from viewers seeing the two trilogies as a series of chronological events instead of films that are trying to tell a story. This is made evident by the many fans who say the films should be watched in chronological order because that obeys the timeline in which the events occurred. That's so backward from a storytelling standpoint I simply don't understand the appeal of it.
Could you sit a Star Wars virgin down and show him the films in chronological order without ruining the dramatic tension of IV, V, and VI? The answer is no. The impact of "I...am your father!" is reduced from a revelation to a "Well, duh!" moment for the audience.
The original Star Wars trilogy has nothing to do with the prequels from a narrative standpoint. IV, V, and VI tell a story on their own--the story of the rise of the Rebellion and the fall of the Empire. The prequels tell their own story also: the fall of the Republic/Annakin and the rise of the Empire/Vader.
The two trilogies present two completely different narratives, and the actions and events in each shouldn't be intermingled in a lame attempt to tie them together. The prequels would've been much better had they been treated as a distinct story without so many homages to IV, V, and VI. Natural connections between the two stories would've developed instead of the manufactured connections we had thrown in our faces like Vader building 3PO. Could it be any more contrived?
The prequels don't stand well on their own, and the same forced connections that make the prequels lame are poisoning the original trilogy. Hayden in ROTJ? Yoda in ANH? Just stop it already!
Yeah, it's like I've said before: the prequel is similar to a making of documentary. It tells a story that explains the story you just got done watching. You generally wouldn't want to watch the making of feature before you watch the movie itself, as it would spoil the magic. And you cetainly don't want to try to incorporate the making of documentary into the actual movie. That's just crazy! And from a narrative standpoint, there are many movies and plays and books that only work because they're told out of chronological order. The audience learns what they need to know as they need to know it... and at the end it makes sense. Play it out chronologically, and it's no longer interesting because there's no mystery. It's like in Citizen Kane, if the scene towards the beginning with Charles as a boy told you what Rosebud meant... there's be no reason to watch the rest of the damned movie!
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I've read a lot of that, and it seems to have been written before Revenge of the Sith, since it misses a lot of plot points that occurred there, like Obi-Wan and R2 having a lot of direct contact with each other. And I really don't think that even George would write in that all-important mind wipe line if it wasn't actually going to happen. I mean, the whole point was to cover his ass.
I've read a lot of that, and it seems to have been written before Revenge of the Sith, since it misses a lot of plot points that occurred there, like Obi-Wan and R2 having a lot of direct contact with each other. And I really don't think that even George would write in that all-important mind wipe line if it wasn't actually going to happen. I mean, the whole point was to cover his ass.
No, it was updated after the publication of the RotS novelization. Lucas might've written the mindwipe line as a CYA, but...
a) Everyone else writing Star Wars material (except for Lucerno, apparently) is sticking with the the unwiped Threepio,
b) Lucas didn't confirm the mindwipe onscreen; it was just a bit of dramatic handwaving, like dumping Boba Fett into the Sarlac (is he dead? not dead? you decide!). It provides some (rather ham-handed) closure to the filmic continuity, but was done in such a way to allow (or even encourage) the unwiped Threepio in the greater canon, and
c) Saxton is much smarter than Lucas and has a better grasp of the Star Wars universe than he does.
The balance might shift the other way in the future, but right now, the preponderance of published, in-universe evidence suggests that Threepio's memory goes at least as far back as his reconstruction on Tatooine.
Next we can argue about the object Palpatine and Vader inspected at the end of RotS. Lucas and Lucerno insist that it was the Death Star; everything else published to date, reasoning, and simple observation suggest that it was not.
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: Scruffy
Next we can argue about the object Palpatine and Vader inspected at the end of RotS. Lucas and Lucerno insist that it was the Death Star; everything else published to date, reasoning, and simple observation suggest that it was not.
Next we can argue about the object Palpatine and Vader inspected at the end of RotS. Lucas and Lucerno insist that it was the Death Star; everything else published to date, reasoning, and simple observation suggest that it was not.
That is my POV as well. Lucas only said it was the Death Star in a half-assed attempt to explain away a continuity error. It is NOT the Death Star. It is the Death Star prototype built at Maw Installation. And I say that scene takes place long after the other events of ROTS.
- Time
- Post link
- Time
- Post link
EDIT: And, Scruffy, you know I don't generally trust George Lucas, but I still take what he says about his universe over the opinions of other writers. And if George says that it's the Death Star, then, as implausible and annoying as it may be, it is, simply, the Death Star. I can choose not to accept it as part of my own canon, but that's the way it is. Same with 3PO's mind wipe. George was trying to reduce his continuity errors, so he took this easy route out. In my mind, I prefer to think that 3PO and R2 weren't even involved with the prequel story in any way, but that's simply the way it is.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
- Time
- Post link
- Time
- Post link
- Time
- Post link
If you'll forgive a reductio ad absurdum, where do you draw the line? What if Lucas says that Luke was actually a female cat-like being with four eyes and a prehensile tail? I mean, if Lucas says Luke is a female cat-like being with four eyes and a prehensile tail he is, simply, a female cat-like being with four eyes and a prehensile tail.
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: eros
GL has already said he would like future generations to watch the movies in order.
GL has already said he would like future generations to watch the movies in order.
Which only goes to show you how distant the man has become from his own work. He can't even recognize the damn story anymore.
MTFBWY…A
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: Scruffy
I place internal consistency over the author's intent. Lucas isn't even the sole author of the Star Wars films -- he collaborated with countless artists, designers, actors, etc. In the case of the RotS "Death Star," ILM for whatever reason modeled and rendered something that is not consistent with the Death Star of episode IV. Lucas can say that it is the Death Star, but that's not what's on the film. (And by film, I mean an some kind of MPEG file or whatever cinematic digital video is rendered as.) If he meant for it to be the Death Star, he should've gone to ILM and told them to get the proportions right. Saying that something on film is something it is not is the worst kind of Special Editionizing -- expecting us to accept a change that he hasn't even bothered to film.
If you'll forgive a reductio ad absurdum, where do you draw the line? What if Lucas says that Luke was actually a female cat-like being with four eyes and a prehensile tail? I mean, if Lucas says Luke is a female cat-like being with four eyes and a prehensile tail he is, simply, a female cat-like being with four eyes and a prehensile tail.
I place internal consistency over the author's intent. Lucas isn't even the sole author of the Star Wars films -- he collaborated with countless artists, designers, actors, etc. In the case of the RotS "Death Star," ILM for whatever reason modeled and rendered something that is not consistent with the Death Star of episode IV. Lucas can say that it is the Death Star, but that's not what's on the film. (And by film, I mean an some kind of MPEG file or whatever cinematic digital video is rendered as.) If he meant for it to be the Death Star, he should've gone to ILM and told them to get the proportions right. Saying that something on film is something it is not is the worst kind of Special Editionizing -- expecting us to accept a change that he hasn't even bothered to film.
If you'll forgive a reductio ad absurdum, where do you draw the line? What if Lucas says that Luke was actually a female cat-like being with four eyes and a prehensile tail? I mean, if Lucas says Luke is a female cat-like being with four eyes and a prehensile tail he is, simply, a female cat-like being with four eyes and a prehensile tail.
Heh, point taken, Scruffy.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
- Time
- Post link
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: eros
One thing that irritates me about star wars and particulary extra scenes in fan edits is that everything must be spelt out on the screen, in other words uneccessary exposition. Now everyone pretty much agrees that we had 1 and a half movies worth of unnecessary expo in the PT, you know irritating things like; where the droids came from, Anakins childhood, wookies and on and on. So adding even more expo is imo very irritating and just insults peoples intelligence
One thing that irritates me about star wars and particulary extra scenes in fan edits is that everything must be spelt out on the screen, in other words uneccessary exposition. Now everyone pretty much agrees that we had 1 and a half movies worth of unnecessary expo in the PT, you know irritating things like; where the droids came from, Anakins childhood, wookies and on and on. So adding even more expo is imo very irritating and just insults peoples intelligence
I agree. It's nice to have ambiguity.
- Time
- Post link
In many ways he made life more difficult for himself creating contrived PT-OT links that familiarised the two trilogies, but at the same time greatly disrupted their continuity. Anakin creating C3P0 is a HUGE continuity problem, and it really only served to bring a familiar Star Wars character into the prequels. In fact, the droids being in the PT (with the exception of perhaps seeing them at the end of ROTS with Antilles) at all is probably the biggest continuity problem of them all. My theory is that George planned on embodying all the comic relief within the character of Jar Jar Binks, and the overwhelming negative response to him meant that he needed to embody the comic relief within some other characters - tried and true like-able characters - he no longer wanted to risk creating an all-new character for comic relief. I think that the thing he missed altogether is that the humour in the OT was divided amongst all the main characters - there was Han Solo with his wise cracks, Leia with her bratty attitude, Yoda with his flashlight hijinx, 3P0 and R2 of course, and I even thought there was a funny interplay between 3P0 and Chewbacca (starting with "let the wookie win" and culminating in ESB with his reconstruction and confinement to Chewie's back). Having one court jester in a movie is a very hit and miss strategy, and more often than not, such a character becomes the object of the audiences scorn rather than their laughter (think about when they introduced Scrappy-Doo to Scooby-Doo).
http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
- Time
- Post link
Originally posted by: Jay
All these ideas about incorporating things into the OT come from viewers seeing the two trilogies as a series of chronological events instead of films that are trying to tell a story. This is made evident by the many fans who say the films should be watched in chronological order because that obeys the timeline in which the events occurred. That's so backward from a storytelling standpoint I simply don't understand the appeal of it.
Could you sit a Star Wars virgin down and show him the films in chronological order without ruining the dramatic tension of IV, V, and VI? The answer is no. The impact of "I...am your father!" is reduced from a revelation to a "Well, duh!" moment for the audience.
All these ideas about incorporating things into the OT come from viewers seeing the two trilogies as a series of chronological events instead of films that are trying to tell a story. This is made evident by the many fans who say the films should be watched in chronological order because that obeys the timeline in which the events occurred. That's so backward from a storytelling standpoint I simply don't understand the appeal of it.
Could you sit a Star Wars virgin down and show him the films in chronological order without ruining the dramatic tension of IV, V, and VI? The answer is no. The impact of "I...am your father!" is reduced from a revelation to a "Well, duh!" moment for the audience.
Of course you can! So what if it makes you wsay "duh"? That's the only way my girlfriend ever saw them, and the way I will always recommend to watch them. It was a totally different experience for her. She knew that Darth was Luke and Leia's dad and that L&L were brother and sister. She kept asking me, "So when is Luke gonna find out that's his dad?" or when will they find out they are brother and sister? I told her to just wait and see. So there can still be surprises. YOU know, but you don't know when the characters will know. I think it's a really cool experience to watch 1-2-clone wars-3-4-5-6 in that order. All of the movies are AWESOME in every way.