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Time to grow up. — Page 3

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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Well said, Greencapt. Now pass the Charmin.


Charmin sucks and you teh suck cuz you like sharmin!

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Originally posted by: greencapt
And yes even though DarkFox's post were well written (and compared to many I've seen they *were* well written if not well intoned) they still had an inflammatory nature to them them that pre-judged this site and everyone on it. And not only were his views seemingly contradictory but they also quickly escalated into almost outright threats towards Jay and the forums here in general. There's a BIG difference between expressing your opinion and making pretentious balnket statements. And like many people have pointed out there are several different areas of this forum and no one either has to A) Visit the forums AT ALL or B) frequent any one area of the fourm at all. And by my reckoning the only areas of this forum that discusses either preservation projects OR fan edits are the areas that are CLEARLY MARKED. As has been stated if you don't like the 'General Star Wars' section either don't visit it or try and contribute to it in a way that encourages better discussion. I personally do both- if a thread/area gets too idiotic I look elsewhere. But the *strength* of the overall community keeps me coming back.

Perhaps on the new site there will need to be further forum areas such as Pro-PT areas. But keep in mind in the meantime that this site was founded by and initially populated by people who FOR the release of the OOT and as such *many* (not all as I don't make blanket statements) of those people were *against* changes (makes sense) and *many* of the people who were against changes were more than likely dedicated fans of the OOT. From that one can make the logical deduction that the *majority* of *those* people would approach the PT with a much higher level of criticism than the general public or more casual SW fans- hence more bitching about it. Now bitching, when done with thought behind it and when trying to constructively add certain points, is perfectly fine and sometimes downright fun. When bitching turns to 'Lucas is a$$' (as it was for quite some time) it just is juvenile and annoying- and best avoided. But if one's only reason for avoiding the 'General Star Wars' area is PT bashing then one may be at the wrong SW forum. I look at it like this- we all have our opinions. But its just as annoying to have someone blindly *defend* something as much as it is to have them stupidly *argue* something. What pisses me off is when ANY part of the forums start to be idiotic PERSONAL attacks on each other. I *personally* think the PT are steaming cinematic turds but I would NEVER tell another member that because they like them that means THEY are steaming human turds. Trust me- I like quite a few cinematic turds. But I just do. And I don't get offended when other people don't. In fact, outside of the little geek community we have here, the vast majority of the world seems to enjoy the turds the that Hollywood monkeys fling at us every week.

That said, there's just as many poo-flinging monkeys in the 'Off Topic' section as there is in the 'General Star Wars' section. Oh it may be different monkeys and different poo but the effect is the same. Remember that like any online venture what we do here is make-believe. Seriously. I know it may not feel like but it truly is. Very few of us will ever have contact with each other in real life. Most of us have no idea what each other does in real life, what we look like, etc. There is no 'ownership' on the net, or at least only so much as any one idividual puts forwards. So everything one reads, see, hears, smells or tastes online has to be taken with a grain of salt as they say. Just try to have a good time. And like I said in a previous post here we all have freedom of choice to be here or to be anywhere. The only time the poo-flinging monkeys win is when we LET THEM WIN. They crave easy targets to aim their poo at and when we run away screaming from ANY poo-flinger all we do is get poo on our backsides. And I for one can't stand poo on my backside.


As an O-OT supporter and non-fan of the prequels, I think I am definitely in the right place. I stopped frequenting the General Star Wars section because the debates were getting old and repetitive, plus AWK was getting on my nerves. I was beginning to actually dislike Star Wars, which made me very sad.

I think I just created a new word - Non-fan

War does not make one great.

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The whole point of this web site is to give people info of how to obtain/or create the best possible quality backup of their cherished vhs and laserdisk copies which will wear out eventually at little or no expense to them, no more no less.

And that ain't piracy
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While I agree that isn't piracy I don't see that as the be-all-end-all of this site. Actually I think the point of the site, at least originally, was to petition George Lucas to officially release the OOT on DVD. The preservation efforts are an extension of the fact that LFL seems reluctant to ever do an official release. Of course with the fine jobs so many preservationists have done perhaps that thinking has backfired. I hope not!
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shim, the new forum software is not a panacea. Aside from letting people ignore members they find annoying, which is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "Lalalalala!", what will it change about the content? Will originality and creative thinking suddenly spike when the new software goes live?

Forums are what you make them. You want good content and don't see it? Post it. Some of you seem to forget you're part of this community; if you don't see something you like, it's your job to post something you do. greencapt is absolutely correct about rising above the chaff.

You know what my biggest concern is with the membership here? I see a lot of repliers but nowhere near enough posters. Lots of reacting, not enough thinking. Everyone thinking this place has gone to hell should ponder something: when you visit, do you blaze through each forum looking for topics to reply to and then take off, or do you create new topics to foster interesting, thought-provoking discussions? Do you contribute and build, or do you reply and leave?

All I can do is provide the means for everyone to communicate. What you say to each other while you're here is your choice.

As for the guy who basically accused this forum of supporting piracy, he got the response he deserved. You don't sign up at a forum and then proceed to tell the owner and members their community is a den of thieves with questionable morals. Based on his post count, that's all he came here to do.
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This site was created before the OT came out on DVD, so as far as GL is concerned he has given us the original trilogy and wouldn't understand why this site still exists. So from that POV the original mission is dead in the water I'm afraid.
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Originally posted by: eros
This site was created before the OT came out on DVD, so as far as GL is concerned he has given us the original trilogy and wouldn't understand why this site still exists. So from that POV the original mission is dead in the water I'm afraid.


I think you need to read the actual text of the petition letter.

Still, I acknowledge the site's value and purpose have moved beyond the petition into other areas. That's fine with me because a Star Wars DVD petition isn't going to turn a profit all by itself.
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Yep, if it was just about signing a petition people would only ever need to come here once.
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Originally posted by: greencapt
And yes even though DarkFox's post were well written (and compared to many I've seen they *were* well written if not well intoned) they still had an inflammatory nature to them them that pre-judged this site and everyone on it. And not only were his views seemingly contradictory but they also quickly escalated into almost outright threats towards Jay and the forums here in general. There's a BIG difference between expressing your opinion and making pretentious balnket statements. And like many people have pointed out there are several different areas of this forum and no one either has to A) Visit the forums AT ALL or B) frequent any one area of the fourm at all. And by my reckoning the only areas of this forum that discusses either preservation projects OR fan edits are the areas that are CLEARLY MARKED. As has been stated if you don't like the 'General Star Wars' section either don't visit it or try and contribute to it in a way that encourages better discussion. I personally do both- if a thread/area gets too idiotic I look elsewhere. But the *strength* of the overall community keeps me coming back.

Perhaps on the new site there will need to be further forum areas such as Pro-PT areas. But keep in mind in the meantime that this site was founded by and initially populated by people who FOR the release of the OOT and as such *many* (not all as I don't make blanket statements) of those people were *against* changes (makes sense) and *many* of the people who were against changes were more than likely dedicated fans of the OOT. From that one can make the logical deduction that the *majority* of *those* people would approach the PT with a much higher level of criticism than the general public or more casual SW fans- hence more bitching about it. Now bitching, when done with thought behind it and when trying to constructively add certain points, is perfectly fine and sometimes downright fun. When bitching turns to 'Lucas is a$$' (as it was for quite some time) it just is juvenile and annoying- and best avoided. But if one's only reason for avoiding the 'General Star Wars' area is PT bashing then one may be at the wrong SW forum. I look at it like this- we all have our opinions. But its just as annoying to have someone blindly *defend* something as much as it is to have them stupidly *argue* something. What pisses me off is when ANY part of the forums start to be idiotic PERSONAL attacks on each other. I *personally* think the PT are steaming cinematic turds but I would NEVER tell another member that because they like them that means THEY are steaming human turds. Trust me- I like quite a few cinematic turds. But I just do. And I don't get offended when other people don't. In fact, outside of the little geek community we have here, the vast majority of the world seems to enjoy the turds the that Hollywood monkeys fling at us every week.

That said, there's just as many poo-flinging monkeys in the 'Off Topic' section as there is in the 'General Star Wars' section. Oh it may be different monkeys and different poo but the effect is the same. Remember that like any online venture what we do here is make-believe. Seriously. I know it may not feel like but it truly is. Very few of us will ever have contact with each other in real life. Most of us have no idea what each other does in real life, what we look like, etc. There is no 'ownership' on the net, or at least only so much as any one idividual puts forwards. So everything one reads, see, hears, smells or tastes online has to be taken with a grain of salt as they say. Just try to have a good time. And like I said in a previous post here we all have freedom of choice to be here or to be anywhere. The only time the poo-flinging monkeys win is when we LET THEM WIN. They crave easy targets to aim their poo at and when we run away screaming from ANY poo-flinger all we do is get poo on our backsides. And I for one can't stand poo on my backside.


the off topic is off topic, and its expected there. but anyway people to seem to forget that there are fans that actually liked both, you cant say that this site is for those people that liked the OOT and so we can complain all day long about how everything else sucked... well i guess you can but that doesnt sound very mature does it. but alas you cant really defend your side very well when that stuff creeps into everythread be it on topic or off, prefect example is in the EU thread, a big PT vs OT vs SE debate would have started had i not gotten pissed off and told people to bugger off. the point is there is too much of that crap on this site, talk about something else as well as the PT vs OT, or why the PT sucked, or why the OT is the best thing ever created by modern man. your right its not fair to put a blanket statement on all the posters, i am putting it on the posts, cause it seems that the most prolific posters in the section would almost all fall under what i was talking about.
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Originally posted by: Jay
shim, the new forum software is not a panacea. Aside from letting people ignore members they find annoying, which is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "Lalalalala!", what will it change about the content? Will originality and creative thinking suddenly spike when the new software goes live?

Forums are what you make them. You want good content and don't see it? Post it. Some of you seem to forget you're part of this community; if you don't see something you like, it's your job to post something you do. greencapt is absolutely correct about rising above the chaff.

You know what my biggest concern is with the membership here? I see a lot of repliers but nowhere near enough posters. Lots of reacting, not enough thinking. Everyone thinking this place has gone to hell should ponder something: when you visit, do you blaze through each forum looking for topics to reply to and then take off, or do you create new topics to foster interesting, thought-provoking discussions? Do you contribute and build, or do you reply and leave?

All I can do is provide the means for everyone to communicate. What you say to each other while you're here is your choice.

As for the guy who basically accused this forum of supporting piracy, he got the response he deserved. You don't sign up at a forum and then proceed to tell the owner and members their community is a den of thieves with questionable morals. Based on his post count, that's all he came here to do.


i try jay, look at all my posts minis this thread and the HLF thread.
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Originally posted by: eros
The whole point of this web site is to give people info of how to obtain/or create the best possible quality backup of their cherished vhs and laserdisk copies which will wear out eventually at little or no expense to them, no more no less.

And that ain't piracy


you knwo i am surprised that jay didnt say something to you, about that. cause as far as i know that statement is wrong, just flat out wrong. the point of this site is to get the O-OT released on DVD. and the next best thing at the moment is to preserve them, through copying which is in a way piracy, if you decide to sell them.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
but anyway people to seem to forget that there are fans that actually liked both, you cant say that this site is for those people that liked the OOT and so we can complain all day long about how everything else sucked...


I apologize if I didn't make myself clear Shimraa- I did NOT say as you state that people here "can complain all day long about how everything else sucked...". What I insinuated was that it is to be expected that the majority of folks here will be much more loyal to the OOT than to the PT. Therefore there will be more complaining than not regarding the PT. The numbers simply lead to that conclusion and there really isn't any getting around that. But things like the 'EU' thread that you mention are just like any other thread in any other area- there could be perfectly legitimate conversation and discussion going on but all it takes is some punk or another to start a 'fight' with stupid reactionary or inflammatory comments.

And I truely hope that you don't get your feelings hurt by the stupid junk people say or post. I've said it before and I'll say it again- for God's sake its just ENTERTAINMENT. Why should ANYONE waste time trying to convince other people that THEIR opinion is right or wrong? Its a no win situation. Seriously. Like Jay was saying- find a way to contribute. And like I said- ignore the punks that don't. You'll notice, by way of example, that in some of the threads I participate in certain prolific members of the forum will comment on certain things I write but I rarely if ever will dignify them with a response. And usually those posts will stop. You do have the power to control your own destiny, at as far as your online activities go.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
you knwo i am surprised that jay didnt say something to you, about that.


I did. Read the post after his.
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opps sry i missed that
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
opps sry i missed that


Yeh! don't comment until you've got your facts right
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Relax eros. No big deal.
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Shimraa, you make me think. I realize full well not everyone is the same, or has the same intentions, or says the same thing here. There are members I can name, by their usernames to point out behavior I don't agree with. On the first page of this website is a quote made by Lucas against the colourization of classic B&W films, and then there is a thread where people are asking for pirated copies of the colourized version of King Kong (1933) - which can be bought legally! Jay tells me Lucas once made his own edits of hollywood films - in defense of fan edits (of any film, not just star wars). Ok, fair enough - but did Lucas distribute these edits as well? Because I can see a problem if he did, and if he did - just because HE did it doesn't make it ok.

But you're right, I came here peacefully. These are my observations, and my opinions, nothing more. GundarkHunter, I don't doubt you're a good lawyer - and I mean no disrespect; however if you are saying that by distributing (lets assume for free) unauthorized copies of movies, in unauthorized edits, of legit releases that no wrong has been done to the copyright owners and that it is every consumers right to do so - you are most certainly mistaking. You may find it interesting to note on the wikipedia page for starwars, under preservation is a link to this site.

You all want to know a true story? Since in Jay's words "You don't sign up at a forum and then proceed to tell the owner and members their community is a den of thieves with questionable morals", and honestly I didn't come HERE to do anything of the kind, I came here to discuss. But there was a time I did just that. I went to a forum to tell the owner and members their community is a den of thieves with questionable morals.

There is a forum at the website whiterevolution.com. "Antifa" (non-supporters) are only allowed to post in one forum, where the moderators routinely edit their posts to make them sound like morons, and the whole community pounces on them - far worse then what you see here. It was a forum that wasn't worth my time either. But in all fairness I felt like confronting these people, and so I did. I registered under the username of "One Small Christian" and I posted "One Small Post". Here's the link, so you can read it for yourself:

http://www.whiterevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1778

Pay close attention to the member aryanok88, if you choose to read the thread. You see I thought it would be interesting to come in to a racist forum and say "hi, I'm white, and you're wrong". To say "if you hate me doesn't that make YOU an enemy of the white race". To show them what they're cause is doing is unproductive, immoral, and quite frankly disgusting. It took a lot of effort on my part, to hold ground there, and make arguments which would make sense to the forum members there. The mods would threaten me, shout abuse, mess with my account - basically everything short of banning me. And I'm not banned, they never banned me. I can return to the forum any time I like. Eventually aryanok88 decided he was not going to continue to be a part of the movement, he sent me a PM in secret informing me that he's decided to leave the white nationalist movement, remove hate from his life, and pursue God.

What is most interesting is that this was the member who had said earlier in the thread:

As far as I'm concerned, you have proved nothing One Small Christian. I am a God fearing Christian (and those of you who don't believe the bible need to keep that opinion to yourselves, for it insults those of who do believe it). However, I'm not of the brainwashed Zionist churches of today. The white race is the true Israel, and the Jews of today are merely a con on the people of the world. Holding hands and singing We are the World is what you seem to want. It's not going to happen, so why do you bother posting here? Do you think you are going to convert us?

Like someone once said, "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has got one." Well, thanks for your opinion...asshole!

Note that one question "Do you think you are going to convert us?" - No I did not. But I did, and that I feel was the greatest thing I achieved all year.

So if some of you here want to shout abuse at me, go ahead I'm not going to stop you. You can judge me all you like - after all I know I'm not perfect. You can call me out of order, you can tell me I'm unwelcome to be your friend, that you hate me and wish I was dead if you like. I just want you to know one thing... and that is I will never give you the satisfaction of hearing such abuse from me.

Now since I am unwelcome, and since I do have better and more pressing things to worry about then this forum, this is goodbye. Back to lurking.
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Originally posted by: DarkFox
there is a thread where people are asking for pirated copies of the colourized version of King Kong (1933) - which can be bought legally!


Please point me to this thread so I can take care of it. This is not acceptable behavior, even among us pirates.
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Darkfox, no offence intended (at least, not much), but why do you feel the need to go to any board that doesn't agree with you and saddle up on your moral high horse?

Judging from your posts on the thread you gave us, I must admit that your first few arguments were pretty good, and although I am not a Christian, I applaud you for trying to talk some sense into the scum of society, but don't you think that blaming it on the American system is a bit much? Sure, England and Australia don't have as much racial turmoil, but thats probably because they aren't as ethnically mixed and has nothing to do with England's lack of a written constitution.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Jay here is your thread:

http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=3750

I see 6 members ask for a pirated copy of the official DVD, two even admit to being in the UK! Every member could instead purchase the DVD legally.

TheSessler: "Sure, England and Australia don't have as much racial turmoil, but thats probably because they aren't as ethnically mixed and has nothing to do with England's lack of a written constitution."

I never said the lack of a written constitution is a bad thing. Our constitution is almost impossible to understand in parts, which is kind of silly. I think you'll find in Australia we have a very diverse nation which is extremely ethnically mixed. You come here to Brisbane and you'll see what I'm talking about right away. Go to Sydney or Melbourne and you'll see even more. The reason America has so much racial turmoil is not because they're less racially mixed. So no, I don't think blaming it on american society is too much. Remember America is the fattest nation in the world, roughly 50% fatter then Australia. America's top preventable cause of death is obesity, not smoking. Australia's is skin cancer. Can you tell me why in the UK you don't even get to choose your Doctor?

The reason why I did it is because they're all people I would be proud to call my friends. A true friend will tell another friend what he has done wrong. Now they're not my friends, but that doesn't mean I can't treat them like my friends, does it? Now if that's somehow saddling up on some moral high horse, then so be it. You can see that I saw it through to the end, if you can decide where an end is. I suppose I'll see this discussion through as well.
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soo, there are words in the above posts about darkfox, i am curious as to who will be coming in first to eat theirs. or at least to show everyone as they insert there foot into there mouths.
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I dont care, if you dont agree my behaviour but I object to be called or reffered to as a pirate because I own Star Wars fan-edits and the preserved O.O.T, this is only time I really own non official DVDs, I am extremly grateful to the people here who have helped me enjoy my favourite films again. I have bought and still buy Lucas products for over 28 years now untold VHSs all the DVDs etc, if he were to release the O.O.T i would buy a least 2 sets, I own over 700 official DVDs, I dont need someone to preach to me if I am doing wrong I am old enough to decide for myself, and accusing me of being a pirate by obtaining for nothing a few edits so I can enjoy my favourite films again as I did as a kid.

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DarkFox, in my eyes you're just a self-important dramaqueen. You could just have PMed Jay about the incidents you have noticed, and he would have dealt with them, since they are against the forum rules. You can eat all the chalk you want - your behaviour still reeks of trolldom. Just my two cents on this.
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Originally posted by: DarkFox
Jay here is your thread:

http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=3750

I see 6 members ask for a pirated copy of the official DVD, two even admit to being in the UK! Every member could instead purchase the DVD legally.


Thank you for pointing this out. Please note that the initial request was posted before the release of the UK box set with the colorized version; it's possible the poster didn't realize its release was coming about a month later. Subsequent posts seem to discuss the LD rip, not a UK DVD rip. With the UK DVD now available (even if it's only in a box set), the colorized version of King Kong no longer qualifies for "preservation" status.

That post also brought another issue to my attention: official releases in different regions. Since multi-region players are so cheap these days and DVD imports are easy to come by, I don't see the justification behind format conversions (PAL to NTSC, for example) to share with people outside your region. I removed the post offering NTSC conversions of the PAL release and posted a clarification of preservation forum rule #4 to address this issue.
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