Another problem with the Plinkett reviews is that they made people forget about the suppression of the original versions and think that the prequels were fans’ only grevience with Lucas, so Disney felt a lot of pressure to make sequels that didn’t resemble the prequels and no pressure to release the original versions of the movies. I wish Plinkett reviwed the Special Editions in additon to the prequels.
I don’t think we can be sure that the popularity of these reviews led to the ‘play it safe’ nature of the TFA. Mr Plinkett did state in his Star Trek 2009 review that J.J. should direct them though. Disney probably just read the general mood of the fandom at that stage. To test this theory he needs to do a 70-minute video about the state of the Special Edition changes, and we know he’s not a fan because of that interview with Alexandre Philippe.
I rewatched the TPM review last night, and criticism of the SEs are right there, with mention of all the needless CG shit Lucas inserted to fill up the screen.
I refuse to dehumanize anyone. Your ethical/moral/political/religious views may be utterly repugnant to me, but I strive to hold Luke 23:34 close to my heart.
In his TPM review, Plinkett said, “I don’t care if it’s explained in a book because I can’t read”, yet when Episode VII was announced, some EU fans were hoping that it would begin where the EU timeline ended and argued that if anyone was confused by all the EU characters and Chewie being dead, they should read the EU books, and I was thinking, “but Plinkett can’t read”.
In his TPM review, Plinkett said, “I don’t care if it’s explained in a book because I can’t read”, yet when Episode VII was announced, some EU fans were hoping that it would begin where the EU timeline ended and argued that if anyone was confused by all the EU characters and Chewie being dead, they should read the EU books, and I was thinking, “but Plinkett can’t read”.
Well, I don’t know how to read either, so I understand Plinkett’s frustration. But I feel like the backstory for Episode 7 is basically equally as removed from where Episode 6 left off as the EU, such that it requires the same amount of backstory explanation as the EU anyway, so there’s really little difference.
I mean, what’s the difference between requiring background info about “Intergalactic bio-tech aliens ransack Galaxy, a moon falls on Chewie, Han & Leia have kids, etc.” vs. “New Empire led by new Palpatine rip-off appears, Han & Leia have evil son, Luke is depressing now, Han is a smuggler again, a ‘Resistance’ exists for some reason, etc.”
I mean the Episode 7 backstory basically requires the same amount of homework anyway in order to make sense of what’s presented in the movie, so it probably would have made little difference if Disney actually just kept the EU and dropped the audience off in the middle of it some time after the Yuzhaan Vong (too lazy to Google correct spelling) f’d up the entire galaxy.
i dont like them there are some jokes about rape and a lot of women sexualization in it i know there are in the movies but that is not excuse
idk
I rewatched them about a month ago. There’s some good jokes and I agree with some of their points. Before those videos I hadn’t really seen a long form review of a movie like that, so it was very new at the time. Also the first time I saw them I didn’t really understand why people hated the prequels so much, so seeing those reviews helped me understand the criticisms. I do enjoy a lot of Red Letter Media videos, although I think they can be too cynical sometimes.
All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph!
Some great criticism presented in mostly funny ways. They’ve aged poorly in places but still hold up as solid video essays beyond the extreme character. RLM have really built a solid brand in the years since. I enjoy their reviews and Best Of The Worst series.
Probably paved the way for a lot of youtubers and long form video content. At the same time I think Plinkett inspired a bunch of dreadful imposters who do the act without the self-awareness. That is unfortunate.
I thought the work put into the reviews and breakdowns of each film per video showed a true passion for the franchise, which is respectable. Very thorough analyses of the prequels, while still being really funny. And the Revenge of Nadine was the cherry on top. RLM is run by people with actual filmmaking experience, and as a result, the quality/craft of those videos were far higher than anything on youtube at the time. The only other reviews of the prequels I though were comparable were from Confused Matthew.
I was introduced to Star Wars in 1997 with the release of the special editions when I was 7 years old and then the prequels came out when I was 9, 12 and 15. Even at the time I didn’t love them like I loved the OT but really couldn’t explain it. Years later, the Plinkett reviews really helped me understand my own feelings towards the PT. I wasn’t nearly as harsh on them as RLM but it was hard to disagree with anything they said either. To this day, those reviews stand out as great video essays.
I thought the work put into the reviews and breakdowns of each film per video showed a true passion for the franchise, which is respectable. Very thorough analyses of the prequels, while still being really funny. And the Revenge of Nadine was the cherry on top. RLM is run by people with actual filmmaking experience, and as a result, the quality/craft of those videos were far higher than anything on youtube at the time. The only other reviews of the prequels I though were comparable were from Confused Matthew.
Yeah, a pity Confused Matthew and some of the other discerning PT review videos became overlooked when RLM videos came to everyone’s attention. The CM videos especially - they were out and available a full year before RLM (back in the day of 10 minute maximum length youtube videos!)
They and a few other videos around that time can be found here (as well as the general hype for the Prequels etc)…
Phil Tippett on the Special Editions: “They’re shit” + £2b for George to direct the Prequels
^ though unfortunately a number of other similar PT review videos are no longer available; either being taken down - or channels that no longer exist. There are also ~25 written reviews for each of the Prequel films from around the time of release in the above link.
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I found some of them extremely funny - particularly the whole bit going over Anakin’s approach to romance.
It’s often forgotten that the Plinkett reviews were somewhat novel at the time, being among the first “long-form” reviews with an hour or more runtime. They came out at a time when Youtube videos had a length limit (I think maybe 10 minutes max or something), and so they were initially released in 10-minute segments. At the time the Phantom Menace review was released, I remember the length of the review being commented on frequently. Of course, nowadays there are tons of extremely lengthy movie reviews on Youtube.
Also, there is a lot of “lost context” going on with these reviews. The reviews themselves formed something of a meta-joke, playing around with the idea of an obsessive sci-fi nerd that would make such long reviews about a science fiction franchise. The fact that the obsessive sci-fi nerd is also an insane serial killer is for the sake of an absurdist exaggeration of the stereotypical basement nerd. (The meta-joke is probably more evident with the Star Trek reviews than with Star Wars.)
However, this meta-joke is now somewhat obscure, and likely lost on a 2023 audience, because the “obsessive sci-fi nerd” stereotype has mostly disappeared. Formerly nerdy stuff is mostly mainstream now, and being extremely enthusiastic about Star Wars is generally not correlated with “weird obsessive basement-dwelling nerd” anymore. So the whole Silence of the Lambs/serial killer schtick has lost a lot of social context, and probably comes off as inexplicable to many viewers.
You nailed it
It’s important to note that the main value of the Plinkett reviews was they were essentially a compendium of salient critiques about the Prequels. I don’t think Plinkett actually introduced a single original point of criticism. I don’t say that to disparage the reviews at all - rather, I say it to refute the oft-heard claim that widespread dislike of the Prequels resulted from the viral popularity of the RLM reviews, or that Prequel criticism could be reduced to parroting a list of Plinkett points.
A 1999 movie review of Phantom Menace articulates almost every main Plinkett point about TPM, a decade before Plinkett.
And multiple 2004 posts from this very website bring up the “no main character” criticism.
And anecdotally, most of Plinkett’s Prequel criticisms are things my friends and I talked about privately throughout the 2000s, before the Plinkett reviews. A lot of these criticisms are just obvious - especially the CGI stuff and the overall “feel” of these movies in comparison with the OT.
The main value of these reviews was that (1) they compiled all the most salient criticisms in a single video, (2) the criticisms attacked the fundamental problems with the Prequels, rather than the more common mainstream “Jar Jar is stupid” critiques, (3) they used a unique, comedic framing to express these criticisms, rather than the typical 2000s “rage critic” where the reviewer just screams and rants about how the movie sucks, and (4) they employed some really hilarious editing techniques, like cutting off a rambling point mid-sentence to move on to another segment.
Of course, regarding point (3), it seems a lot of people were put off by the “Buffalo Bill” serial killer voice. I personally found it pretty funny (I thought the comedic device of exaggerating the obsessive sci-fi nerd stereotype by merging it with a deranged, pizza-roll eating serial killer was brilliant at the time). But I’ve seen many people say the reviews were unwatchable due to the voice, which perhaps somewhat limited their audience appeal.
However, as I said, we’ve arrived at a point where these reviews need to be watched with some historical context in mind. Nowadays, Youtube is a career and countless movie reviews with 1-hour or more runtimes exist. But in 2008/2009, the idea that someone would actually make a 1-hour movie review about Star Wars or Star Trek would register as insanely anti-social to many. Only an extremely anti-social obsessive sci-fi nerd - a real-life incarnation of “Comic Book Guy” from the Simpsons - would ever do something as anti-social as that. The reviews therefore leaned into this by employing dark humor, making the narrator a deranged psychopath who watched Star Wars movies with his victims, and casually discussed Star Wars action figures while one of his victims was tied up in the background.
You nailed it again
It’s bizarre running into zoomers online who try to explain the prequels to you like you weren’t there when they came out, while in some cases they were barely even alive, or not alive yet at all. No no no, you don’t understand, everyone loved the prequels when they came out, but also they were underrated and secretly genius, and also The Clone Wars fixed them. It was a tiny minority of terrorists led by the hateful Plinkett that harassed Lucas, Ahmed Best, and Jake Lloyd, and conspired to create the sequel trilogy. (Obviously this is an exaggeration of what they think, but what they actually think is still loony.)
Part of a general trend where people think if they watched the most recent video essay or even a 30 second clip about something they’re an expert, and they have no concept that people physically experience things in the real world even if they’re not documented in a place where they see it. When I worked at a middle school recently a kid tried to explain 9/11 to me like I had never heard of it.
Somehow, Mr Plinkett returned…
(with pizza rolls!)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xeMak4RqJA - a 53 minute video from the Red Letter Media youtube channel.
The blurb: ‘Mr. Plinkett is back! And this time he’s here to quickly guide you through the last 15 years or so of Star Wars history from the Prequels, to everything that’s happened after the Disney acquisition. How can one universe contain Andor, The Acolyte, Baby Jedis, and Legos? I don’t know? Do you compartmentalize your Star Wars in your brain like a psychopath? Do you just watch Star Wars content that fits your particular taste in a Star War? How can we take the dark side seriously anymore? Is it all too much too quickly? If you keep shoving sh*t into a wet paper bag eventually it’ll burst. I guess only the world’s rich elite 1% will find out… Join Harry on one final adventure into Star Wars.’
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Huge miss for Mike.
*Starts out as performatively anti-woke about the sequels and then blames anti-woke for why people don’t like The Acolyte.
*Complains about the “complain about movies on YouTube” industry that he created, with no self awareness.
*Doesn’t grasp that all the “the prequels are underrated/secretly genius” people are in full agreement with him about the Jedi in the prequels, they just think it was intentional. Yes, they know the Jedi are (supposedly) a creepy cult conspiracy that kidnaps and brainwashes kids to have no emotions. They hate the Acolyte in spite of that because it sucks, not because “it was too different” or because it was too similar to the prequels. They’re super invested in Ki Adi Mundi BECAUSE he’s a scumbag with some kind of clone wars flamethrower war crime meme and he’s clueless about the Sith existing.
*Craps on people who were into the expanded universe again, like the actual fans who read books about the original trilogy heroes having adventures in the 90s were somehow beneath him and beneath all the modern “elite” Disney+ subscribers. You would think at this point he would understand that they were never the problem, but he just can’t resist the old stereotypes.
Seems more like a checklist of things that have been said already, I guess he just wants to say he’s done with it all. Which I can relate to anyway. Josh did a very good George Lucas at least.
because it sucks
What a comprehensive refutation!
Mike’s take on the Acolyte is incredibly based (for a cynical old alcoholic /j)
reylo?
because it sucks
What a comprehensive refutation!
Mike’s take on the Acolyte is incredibly based (for a cynical old alcoholic /j)
I’m sure you already know why it sucks but you feel the need to be a contrarian like Mike does. There are plenty of posts here and elsewhere about it.
I’m sure you already know why it sucks but you feel the need to be a contrarian like Mike does. There are plenty of posts here and elsewhere about it.
I’ve not seen one convincing argument for “why it sucks” that cancels out all the ways in which it’s great. And we won’t get into it here. Mike’s reflection on what he found interesting about the show upon reevaluation does not sound the least bit contrarian to me. In fact, it’s entirely consistent with somebody who has both 1) made a career out of cynical criticism of late-stage franchise entries, while refusing to weaponise “woke”, and also 2) has an understanding of storytelling and theme and picks up on these things. I understand that not every show is for everyone and that’s okay, but this take that no one can possibly enjoy a critically acclaimed piece of media unless they’re either dumb or a shill or purposefully contrarian is just wacky.
reylo?
I’m sure you already know why it sucks but you feel the need to be a contrarian like Mike does. There are plenty of posts here and elsewhere about it.
I’ve not seen one convincing argument for “why it sucks” that cancels out all the ways in which it’s great. And we won’t get into it here. Mike’s reflection on what he found interesting about the show upon reevaluation does not sound the least bit contrarian to me. In fact, it’s entirely consistent with somebody who has both 1) made a career out of cynical criticism of late-stage franchise entries, while refusing to weaponise “woke”, and also 2) has an understanding of storytelling and theme and picks up on these things. I understand that not every show is for everyone and that’s okay, but this take that no one can possibly enjoy a critically acclaimed piece of media unless they’re either dumb or a shill or purposefully contrarian is just wacky.
He literally “weaponizes woke” within the same video not 10 minutes earlier, taking potshots at representation and DEI and lesbians, even when that isn’t a sufficient reason why any of the sequels are bad, and bizarrely pinning it specifically on Rian Johnson like there wasn’t anyone else involved and he was the one initiating it. You’ll remember he also did this with Samuel Jackson being Mace Windu back in the day.
You can tell just watching the video that he’s put off by the other people criticizing it. He doesn’t want to be associated with anyone who complains about Ki Adi Mundi’s age for example, because that’s too petty for him. He’s embarrassed by the deep dive youtube complainer critic industry that he created. So he takes the common braindead take people have whenever something bad comes out, “at least it did something different.” It’s completely incoherent because he then explains how it’s not different at all and it’s very similar to the prequels, which he ostensibly hates. He even knows that the media are going to do the same rehab job on it they did on the prequels, again, and makes fun of it (“Gen Alpha are reevaluating the Acolyte”) He knows that it’s bad but he defends it purely on the grounds that the stereotypical fans don’t like it.
Mike was right about Andor and Star Wars. They don’t feel like they operate in the same universe. Star Wars is Flash Gordon done well (Lucas own words) and Andor is definitely not that.
Star Wars can’t just be anything and everything, because then it’s nothing.
Fuck me, I loathe myself for still giving a shit.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
*Doesn’t grasp that all the “the prequels are underrated/secretly genius” people are in full agreement with him about the Jedi in the prequels, they just think it was intentional. Yes, they know the Jedi are (supposedly) a creepy cult conspiracy that kidnaps and brainwashes kids to have no emotions.
I think it’s interesting that you’ve brought this up in a small handful of different threads in the past month or so, on top of having a longer conversation about this subject on the PT gen discussion thread.
*Doesn’t grasp that all the “the prequels are underrated/secretly genius” people are in full agreement with him about the Jedi in the prequels, they just think it was intentional. Yes, they know the Jedi are (supposedly) a creepy cult conspiracy that kidnaps and brainwashes kids to have no emotions.
I think it’s interesting that you’ve brought this up in a small handful of different threads in the past month or so, on top of having a longer conversation about this subject on the PT gen discussion thread.
It’s always relevant because that’s what everyone talks about
*Doesn’t grasp that all the “the prequels are underrated/secretly genius” people are in full agreement with him about the Jedi in the prequels, they just think it was intentional. Yes, they know the Jedi are (supposedly) a creepy cult conspiracy that kidnaps and brainwashes kids to have no emotions.
I think it’s interesting that you’ve brought this up in a small handful of different threads in the past month or so, on top of having a longer conversation about this subject on the PT gen discussion thread.
It’s always relevant because that’s what everyone talks about
In my experience, there are two stances you’ll see among prequel stans. Either “Yes, the Jedi are meant to be emotionally repressive, and that’s intentional and part of the point,” or “No, the Jedi aren’t repressive. They’re only against selfish emotions. You just didn’t understand what George was going for.”
The Jedi ain’t even that serious about the no attachments thing if we take the text(s) seriously and really look at how the Jedi treat it. What are the consequences, really, of a Jedi having attachments? It’s having a 100 rules knowing everyone will break at least 1, and everyone will have their 1. Where it breaks for the few, you can massage with extra discipline and targeted tutelage, but the rule keeps the others in line. And ultimately, there’s really nothing the council can do either way. It’s really an aspirational standard, not requisite. Something to seek, lifelong, not attain. That’s a pretty reasonable takeaway from what is intended with the depiction IMO.
In canon and EU lore, prequel era Jedi are breaking the rule all the time to little or no consequence. You become a librarian or farmer Jedi, I guess? They don’t even want people leaving really – though even that is allowed to happen.
And outside the realm of breaking rules, it’s also just true that the Jedi have comradery with one another - bonds and friendships. Amongst themselves, but then even with senators, or people they serve. Yoda and Mace can have a soft spot for even a former Jedi like Dooku as a friend at the start of AOTC, and never flinch in discussions of Obi-Wan and Anakin’s own bond. They’re surely aware of their own. It’s not hypocrisy under the lens presented above.
None of this has to exclude material critiques of the Jedi, or that their rules played a role in Anakin’s fall! Because to Anakin, there was personal consequence - his own desire to be accepted by them, to be recognized by them. That is selfish, and centers the Jedi path as hierarchical. His love for Padme is as forbidden as it can allow him to become a true blue Jedi, the “possessive love” often discussed doesn’t actually emerge until after he’s committed to the dark path.
If the Jedi Order as a concept are being dissected by the prequels, I think looking at “repression”, religion, or cultish dogma is the wrong conversation. There’s more going on re: establishment ineffectuality and pedagogy.
not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing
*Doesn’t grasp that all the “the prequels are underrated/secretly genius” people are in full agreement with him about the Jedi in the prequels, they just think it was intentional. Yes, they know the Jedi are (supposedly) a creepy cult conspiracy that kidnaps and brainwashes kids to have no emotions.
I think it’s interesting that you’ve brought this up in a small handful of different threads in the past month or so, on top of having a longer conversation about this subject on the PT gen discussion thread.
It’s always relevant because that’s what everyone talks about
In my experience, there are two stances you’ll see among prequel stans. Either “Yes, the Jedi are meant to be emotionally repressive, and that’s intentional and part of the point,” or “No, the Jedi aren’t repressive. They’re only against selfish emotions. You just didn’t understand what George was going for.”
It’s some of both but I obviously lean more toward the second one. I have the very specific position that that was a mistake and George shouldn’t have done that, but also people don’t understand what he was going for when he did do it.