What do you think of the Sequel Trilogy? - a general discussion thread — Page 15

Vladius said:

Initial thoughts:
Since they would be “hunting” for Ben Solo he wouldn’t actually be in it as much as the other characters, so it might have looked like the Rey movie they’ve already worked on and cancelled (twice?)
People liked him as a villain, and people generally didn’t like the last minute romance, so it’s hard to say that the popularity of the character would be there.

I missed this supposed title somehow. Would it be like The Search for Spock LOL

rocknroll41 said:

Had the Ben Solo movie gotten made, I have a feeling it woulda lifted elements from the scrapped Duel of the Fates script (mainly Mortis). On the other hand, maybe it woulda been cool to see Ben have to explore the criminal underworld, and get a taste of his dad’s life.

But it would’ve been about Kylo…

It may open up the story to future movies where Ben Solo is more prominent, plus the opportunity to more fully realize the ST cast. Plus, if Adam was pitching this movie, he may be more prominent than just showing up at the end. Search for Ben Solo sounds awesome to me

SparkySywer said:

It may open up the story to future movies where Ben Solo is more prominent, plus the opportunity to more fully realize the ST cast. Plus, if Adam was pitching this movie, he may be more prominent than just showing up at the end. Search for Ben Solo sounds awesome to me

Why do we need Kylo to fully realize the ST cast? What’s of value about Kylo’s prominence?

I think it’s hard for the son of Han and Leia, trying HARD to be a bad guy but kinda sucking at it, not to gather that kind of story gravity around himself (especially played by someone as compelling as Adam)

I get the inverted Vader arc expectation but never saw how that would pay off satisfyingly and that the Duel of the Fates draft bears that out (better script for Finn and Rose, absolute Nowheresville for Rey and Kylo/Ben, imo… and I think TROS is more a reaction to what was seen as not working in that script, while repurposing some of its elements, than anything against TLJ)

I want this movie big time but then again I like the sequels way more than most here, probably… even as an OT gen old-head

Broom Kid said:

I believe the entire purpose of Driver pursuing Soderbergh (who then got Burns onboard) was primarily to investigate the idea of the character not being “redeemed” - Driver had initially signed on thinking that was the goal with the guy, and that had been reinforced by how The Last Jedi was done.

I don’t think they were trying to cement Kylo’s importance to the overall story, really. In fact, his being forcefully, clumsily shifted to hold almost the whole focus of the ST by the midway point of Rise of Skywalker is a huge reason it folds in on itself, dramatically - the movies start by pairing Rey and Finn as the co-leads, and then Rey takes center stage for the 2nd chapter, and instead of Finn & Rey coming together for the 3rd chapter, they backseated both of them for the sake of making Ben the hero/main character. Say what you will (I do, all the time, LOL) about Trevorrow’s skills as a creative, but at least his first couple whacks at the story recognized where The Last Jedi was pointing towards, and it was NOT a “redemption” for Kylo, and it was 100% at Finn leading some sort of uprising amongst the First Order (which is probably the only way the Resistance overcomes having almost no numbers).

This seemed to have been a story looking to pursue the original idea in a different framework. Kylo/Ben wouldn’t actually be prominent to that degree, he’d be hunted, and the clumsy, facile idea of “redemption” forced on him would be sidestepped for a more interesting examination of the character who actually IS too far gone.

I think Kylo was given more focus than Rey was in TLJ, to her detriment. The character being bent around reylo, for the sake of her trying to turn him away from villainy I think is a showcase of that. Along with all their scenes being mostly Kylo talking at her or her saying very little at all. Same with her scenes with Luke, where she mostly just reacts to what other people are saying and doing. I think that was the movie that pushed that idea of Kylo changing as a core concept for the protagonist Rey to pursue, out of nowhere I think, not TROS. I think even TROS drops Kylo out of prominence within the story to focus on Rey and that Kylo has very little character growth and is mostly a device to keep Rey from dying within the movie. Trevarrow’s draft, that I’ve seen, does not much that different with Kylo as a character overall, and still has him change at the end from Leia’s persuasion and then heal Rey, dying in her place.

I think TROS moreso takes away all the focus from Kylo and gives it to Palpatine in regards to Rey’s story, giving Palpatine the one draining lifeforce at the end, being the one behind the deaths of her parents (if I remember correctly that was revealed to be Kylo in Trevarrow’s draft, I think giving Rey an actual drive against Kylo) and the one who was seeking to take over the galaxy and wipe out the resistance.

TLJ also I think outright didn’t do much with Finn’s connection to his stormtrooper thing, cutting out the scene where Finn got some troopers to turn on Phasma, which I think was one of the only things that gave Finn much of a voice in the movie. I think TLJ also did that to Rey a lot as well.

Well The ROS was focused on Rey like Return of the Jedi was focused on Luke. It’s not the prequel trilogy Kylo is not the main character. Vader was not the central character of the OT either.

Lukes story purpose is given to Rey though, restoring the Jedi order. Passing on what he had learned.

We still don’t know why the New Republic failed or was incompetent and had no army to fight the first order. Or what happened to the Empire. Or is the New Republic going to be restored post ROS since it clearly failed. And Luke, Han and Leia were failures.

I suppose some of these things are described by Disney in novels and comics. Goody more homework. They made Star Wars like MCU. You have to watch a bunch of shows to explain their bad movies. If they even fill in any blanks at all.

There was so much I enjoyed about the sequel trilogy. I’m not a full blown hater the way a lot or people are, but I do find it odd HOW Disney-fied the ST became versus practically everything else we saw come out of the Star Wars universe during these times.

So much “anti-woke” sentiment gets tossed around when talking about the ST, but not nearly as much when discussing Rogue One, The Mandalorian, Andor, etc. Why on earth is that?

From a financial standpoint they obviously meant for the ST to be the big money makers with these “smaller” projects on the sides, but it just feels so tonally off from everything else we got.

I’m a fan of the prequel trilogy, if only for how hilarious they can be to watch (but I don’t ‘hate’ them) - obviously the OT hold a giant place in my heart. But nothing from the ST has stuck with me over this time.

There are bits and pieces, sure. But overall I don’t find myself returning to them nearly as much as I do the rest. The prequel trilogy is by FAR my most watched trilogy, but only because I often put it on when I’m dozing off as relaxing background noise (that isn’t meant to be a jab at the films, just that I find them incredibly comforting. I put on movies I love to fall asleep to ALL the time).

I’m of the mind we can’t properly place these films until we’ve had at least HALF the amount of time as with the other films - but we’re getting pretty darn close to the 10 year anniversary of TFA, and I don’t hold nearly as much nostalgia for that film as I expected to.

psyikk said:
So much “anti-woke” sentiment gets tossed around when talking about the ST, but not nearly as much when discussing Rogue One, The Mandalorian, Andor, etc. Why on earth is that?

If the mods and others here aren’t too squeamish about this topic -

Andor did catch some of it because it’s explicitly “political” and gets used for real life propaganda purposes, but most people appreciated that that wasn’t at the expense of quality. The female characters weren’t depicted as flawless badasses who just need to learn how good they are deep down. They have serious problems, strengths, and weaknesses and often need help from others. They go through arcs and development.

For Rogue One, there aren’t that many characters. Jyn Erso is one of the more criticized aspects of the movie as she isn’t a very interesting character, but even she goes through an arc of not caring about the cause, to being willing to die for it for her father’s sake. She can take out a dozen stormtroopers without breaking a sweat, but that capability is also given to everyone else in the party other than Cassian.

The Mandalorian doesn’t have anything worth discussing. It’s a straightforward action show. Cara Dune is a strong fighter who can physically wrestle bad guys up close, but it’s more believable because she’s muscular, and she isn’t an annoying character.

The sequels were watched more, more anticipated, and had more quality issues. The new trio that is supposed to be filling in the shoes of Han, Luke, and Leia is clearly weighted for more diversity, whether you think that’s a good thing or not. Once people actually watched The Force Awakens, they actually preferred Finn more than Rey because he’s a more interesting character with flaws, strengths, and weaknesses. However you feel about it, Rey got tagged with being a Mary Sue, which is not an “anti-woke” term, it’s a general storytelling term that originated in (largely female) fanfiction communities.

The woke label was more for The Last Jedi. I won’t talk about it here because people know all the reasons already and it will draw a lot of aggro if I explain it again.

NFBisms said:

Not gonna lie, I genuinely still don’t get it! The ST are extremely, and almost outright intentionally, apolitical movies with genuinely nothing to offer on that front. And I like TLJ! Andor, Acolyte, sure. But The Last Jedi?

I’d argue TLJ is more sexist, with how I think it shoves Rey into a passive role as a protagonist and builds her story around the dumb, to me, bad boy good girl romance with Kylo. That, plus, all the female characters are basically props for the male characters stories. Luke may suck, to me, but I still think Rey is written not really as her own character, but for Luke’s as well as Kylo’s.

And yet, the movie is bashed as woke and acclaimed as progressive. Hilarious to me.

Does woke mean anything these days? I use to think it was something do do with common sense being replaced by box ticking and messaging but it’s hard to say any more. Overall I still like TLJ but it’s odd if you break it down in any detail. Grifters complaining about Hollywood will say the Rose side-plot is forced but fail to say how beyond the basics of a lame non-romance. Would they be complaining less if Finn and Poe Dameron did this mission or is that too gay for them (or Disney)? Does it make sense Finn gets talked down to about how evil the First Order is when he’s witness to a massacre?

Elsewhere things like Luke being in hiding to avoid the circular nature of the conflict makes some sense. Some people say he shouldn’t be shown as an old grouch. But can the same old heroics go on forever, can these characters be simplistic and static? Which to me is the problem with Rogue One… it’s just so bland and has more fan service and CG action than personality. The sequels might not have much to say but RO is just ‘here’s Darth Vader, please clap’, and then people do.

To me that was the worst part of Rogue One Vader far too prequelly. In fact every appearance of him since the prequel except in Rogue One before the hallway scene has been prequely.I also found the Darth Maul scene in Solo to be lame.
I liked Vader with the red lenses and don’t choke on your aspirations, that was very OT Vader. Rogue One. I liked the unused alternate takes of Red Leader being used in the battle of Scarif from the original 1977 film. Doctor Evazan and Ponda Baba was bit much.

As for Finn I felt like Force Awakens was setting up him and Rey to be a thing, and then last Jedi all of sudden Reylo happens. Which reminds me of Hayden Skywalker/Padme from the prequel. The bad boy psycho romance. Rey is all I can save him I can fix him. There is still good in him.

Why was there a map to Luke if he was just someone who left the fight and wanted to die? that just wanted Rey to get off his island. I feel like JJ made Luke a totally worthless maguffin in the first of the Disney trilogy, and Rian made Luke do what he wanted for his film. And then JJ brought him back, as a Key jangling filler fan service in the third. With far less to do than Trevorrow had. Of the three Luke only had story purpose in TLJ to pass the torch to Rey I suppose, only by astral projecting himself.

Do people forget Yoda was a grouch or curmudgeon in TESB to test Luke. Luke was not doing that though. He really wanted to burn himself and the force tree and the Jedi texts.

It reminds me of the rant of Denethor in the Lord of the Rings Novel, the West has failed. I go to my funeral pyre to burn or something like that.

Then he snaps out of it thanks to Yoda. And says the rebellion is reborn today and I won’t be the last jedi. Rey by the way steals the texts Luke wanted to destroy in his book burning.

Lukes Nihilism did it serve a point. I only know one truth its time for the Jedi to end. Let the past die kill it if you have to. Kylo said. Rey does not find a new path she chooses the light side and the Jedi. The Sith/Jedi dichotomy continues. Luke was not wrong in wanting to restore the Jedi order, He merely was incapable of it. Rey will do it.