In ESB they’re specifically warning Luke against running into a trap. It’s not that they don’t want him to have friends, it’s that they don’t want him to get killed or turned by Vader. Which is almost what happens, he gets his hand cut off and he has to jump into a bottomless pit to get away from Vader. It’s debatable whether Luke showing up gave his friends a chance to escape, but either way, Yoda and Obi Wan were right to warn him against going. Their warnings are more about turning to the dark side, Vader, and his lack of training (“don’t give in to hate,” “remember your failure in the cave”) and not really about “don’t have friends.”
In ROTJ the position is reversed, they’re telling him he needs to confront Vader because he’s ready and trained enough. The message isn’t “kill Vader because he’s your father” because they hate family and friends, it’s that he has to be willing to confront Vader and the Emperor because that’s his duty and his final Jedi trial. Obi Wan says to bury his feelings for his sister because they could be made to serve the Emperor (again, this almost happens), but he also says they “do him credit.” Obi Wan is the one who brought the subject of his sister up in the first place (after Yoda brings up “another Skywalker”), so they weren’t trying to hide her like they were trying to hide Vader’s identity before. They hid Vader’s identity because they believed Luke wasn’t ready for the burden and didn’t have enough training yet, and because of Ben’s own wounded feelings.
Not a single EU author, or seemingly Lucas himself, ever interpreted either of these two scenes as “Jedi aren’t supposed to have families, romantic partners, or spouses.” Not even after Phantom Menace in 1999, all the way up until 2002. Quite the opposite, they treated families of Jedi as completely normal and even expected.
How does that make it a contradiction? I never mentioned that they tell him to not have friends. And none of the PT say that the Jedi can’t have friends either. The Jedi are telling him to not let his feelings about his friends control him.
That changes nothing about what I said and doesn’t, to me, contradict anything in the PT, as feelings are never said to not be something Jedi are allowed to have. Anakin outright says in AOTC that compassion is essential to a jedi’s life. Qui-Gon tells Anakin to feel, not think in TPM. Obi is shown to be friendly with Dexter Jettster. Anakin and Obi are shown to be friendly with each other. Obi banters with Cody in ROTS. Yoda is shown to be friendly with the children in AOTC. Obi and Yoda are both shown to feel emotions in the PT. Obi says he loves Anakin.
Basically saying that no one before the PT saw it as Jedi not being supposed to have those things doesn’t make it contradiction of the OT to have it be what happens in the movies. I never argued it wasn’t a retcon. I just don’t think it contradicts anything within the OT. Particularly anything more than what the OT does with itself.
Definitely. A lot of Yoda’s teachings are about being afraid which leads to poor decisions. Fear led him into the path of Vader who was waiting to twist his mind, and letting Han die might have prevented it. It’s not “if you get married you’ll be afraid to be alone, so never get married or have attachment to anybody, and don’t feel anything for your family either”. If anything Anakin’s stupid love taboo plot cheapens Luke’s arc because it’s compassion over fear that saves the day.
No one in the movies ever says to not feel anything about your family.
How does the Jedi not wanting romance to be something that can be used against them, cheapen a story about having compassion? I think you can not have romance and have compassion for someone. Especially considering it’s said that compassion is essential to a jedi’s life.
that takes kids and teaches them to forget their parents.
Are you trying to argue that Jedi take children away without the consent of the parents? If so, where is that in the movies? And if not, how is it any different than in real life when parents give up their kids to be raised by others and those other people give them lessons and skills? Also, where do the Jedi make the kids forget their parents, and that not just be a consequence of the kids being young enough to not remember them?