You can scan still photography on a motion-picture scanner, but in order to do that you need to splice all your strips together into large reels, for example 1,000ft.
That was my concern. What would be super helpful is if someone here knew exactly how short a reel could be before motion picture scanners would not scan it. Filmstrips are typically 80 motion picture frames and longer, with some topping out at 250 if you count the leader they give you and start/end frames. Is there something about their design that uses the tension of the reels to move the film, or are they more like a cassette deck with pinch rollers?
The other machines do not cost $1,000,000+!
It’s hard to know for sure. You would know better than me. For instance, LaserGraphics doesn’t list prices on their website, but at some point in my research I found someone selling the ScanStation for $700,000. Since the ScanStation only does 5K and I’m scanning at 8K now, my assumption is that the next one up, the Director, which scans at 13.5K, would be more than $300,000 more.
Not finding any usable search results, I asked Grok - I know, it’s probably just making stuff up - and it says the ScanStation “likely” costs between $80,000 and $100,000, and the “budget friendly” Lasergraphics Archivist is about half the price, but it doesn’t scan 35.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but you want a still photography scanner not a motion picture scanner.
Why would I take it the wrong way? What you are replying to is my best effort to find information in an environment that doesn’t know I exist, and in which equipment for what I do either doesn’t exist or is so obscure I need help finding it. Without any other knowledgeable people approaching me to help, the best I could do is determine “the Cintel seems to scan this type of film at a fraction of the cost of the only other manufacturer I could find,” and motion picture scans I could find on YouTube of the Cintel showed perfect frame registration - something I desperately need.
A BMD Cintel is not suited to you needs at all, and it would not be cost effective. Professional scanning on better machines than it generally starts at .20/ft, I presume your filmstrips are around 2-5ft in length
Some are that short but many are 10-15ft or longer.
you can’t expect 60 different “clips” spliced together to be individually checked - you’d need to do that yourself).
And I don’t expect that. But not being able to confirm until right now that motion picture scanners can’t handle film reels under 300ft, I wasn’t 100% sure I’d have to splice anything.
If I were you I’d look into the Filmomat 135 Autocarrier. Setting that up perfectly to get the film as “square” as possible would require you purchase some SMPTE resolution film. You can DIY everything yourself if you prefer. There are significantly less challenges with still photography scanning compared with the motion-picture scanners. You can buy functionally the same camera that the Cintel uses for about $600 used, or you can buy something much better for not that much more and you’re not limited to global-shutter cameras which saves you $$.
Forgive my ignorance on details like this, but is “135” a model number or another name for 35mm film?
I took a quick look at this website. I have concerns about how difficult it would be to properly align the camera, or if it would rock back and forth on that mount if I get up from my desk. But the primary concern seems to be that it’s set up to scan 8-perf 90-degree-rotated photography. It seems to need its own software to do an IR scan, and this wouldn’t be the first time I’ve encountered niche software that doesn’t recognize 4-perf motion picture format.
Like I said in my original post, this project is currently on hold due to not garnering financial support interest in the way that, say, a YouTube channel about the Nintendo Entertainment System or, perhaps, a celebrity on OnlyFans, so while I sincerely appreciate the news that I don’t need a Cintel or a ScanStation, I’m still not able to try out the Filmomat Autocarrier - especially since it looks like the camera stand is an extra thousand bucks, and I need to buy a special camera that can see IR. At those prices I’m wondering if a 25-year-old used Nikon Coolscan 5000 with the film roll adapter, which is available for $5,000 on eBay from price gougers, and I’ve had confirmed for me can be set up to do 4-perf with Vuescan, isn’t a better option.
The optical perf stabilisation you mention (that Blackmagic does in the Cintel’s hardware) can be done in Fusion.
What’s Fusion? Keep in mind in my current situation I don’t get a good scan of the perfs, so no software would have a good frame of reference for where they are. That’s another reason the Cintel looked so promising, it appears to scan all the way out to the edges of the film.
I can’t speak to how perfectly flat a table-top system like the 135 Autocarrier can get the film. The motion-picture scanners have sophisticated film transport modules that provide constant even tension for the film, whereas still photography scanners load the film in as a strip with no lateral tension. Your best bet would be to get someone that already has one to do some sample scans for you.
That’s one of the reasons I’m here. Unfortunately, you are the only person in five days to respond to my post, so I am hesitant to bug people further. If someone finds what I’m doing interesting and/or wants to volunteer for that, that would be great, but so far it looks like my project doesn’t belong here.
Again, that’s what I was hoping with the motion picture scanners, that the “sophisticated film transport modules” might work without needing hundreds of feet of film on the reels.
The geometric imperfections would be less important for you anyway, as mentioned it would be more about getting the frame as “square” as possible so that you don’t have to rotate the film digitally at all.
Filmstrips were never shown in anything that had a motion-picture-like transport system. A lot of times it was literally a single roller with sprockets on either side. While I’d rather not have any geometric distortion, I’ve been able to live with the amount I’m getting on the flatbed. Some filmstrips that are on Eastmancolor and actively breaking down will twist or wrinkle; not having any other options I just try to get a scan of each frame no matter how it looks. Perfect is the enemy of good, especially when they’re this bad.
I hope that helps!
It certainly does. For one, you replied. I sincerely appreciate that. Second, it’s a load off my mind I don’t need to spend $35K on a Cintel or whatever Lasergraphics hardware costs. However, without hearing from someone with experience with the Filmomat unit, it’s just another unknown I can’t currently afford. And, despite the resolution being half of what I’m scanning now, I know the Coolscan works for (offensively) the same price.
Regardless I guess I’m going to have to wait until more people are interested in what I do, if that happens. I was very naive when I started this project, I had a bit of survivorship bias, as I saw people just posting cool projects on the internet and thousands of people showing up to help them. I forgot about the ones for whom that doesn’t happen. Thanks very much for the good information on the motion picture scanners and the Filmomat unit.