What do you HATE about the EU? — Page 52

Superweapon VII said:

darklordoftech said:

Spartacus01 said:

darklordoftech said:

The BBY/ABY calendar existing in-universe.

Why do you hate it? I do not mind it.

Why would the New Republic establish a new year 0? Isn’t that something totalitarian regimes do? Why not use whatever year 0 the Valorum-era Republic used?

My problem is that the Battle of Endor makes a more logical start for a Year 0 than the Battle of Yavin.

Yeah, that actually makes a lot more sense. The battle saw the Emperor and Vader die, the destruction of a substantial part of the Imperial Navy, and the Empire was left without a centralized power. It makes more sense to declare that the start of the “new era.” IIRC, there’s been some new canon books that talk about an in-universe debate over BBY/ABY dates.

It still makes more sense than Stardates.

I think Star Dates contain meta-information about the actual episode or season number, IIRC. But I doubt they were ever used consistently. In reality, an actual inter-stellar calendar system would have to somehow compensate for the bizarre, counter-intuitive fact about our Universe that “now” is a subjective concept entirely dependent on the location and speed of an observer.

Anyway, yeah the Battle of Endor makes more sense logically as a starting point for the new calendar. From an in-Universe perspective, I don’t know when the new dating system officially began. Was it established immediately after the Battle of Yavin (perhaps partially as a propaganda tool for the Rebellion) or did they think of it later and then retroactively apply it backwards to begin at Yavin? Who knows, I doubt any canonical source addresses the issue. In any case, real world calendars are often conceived of after the fact and then applied retroactively to some past duration of time. Perhaps in retrospect, the Rebels came to believe that the Battle of Yavin was like a “sacred turning point” in their favored historical narrative, and so they chose that as “Year 0”.

Obviously, the real world explanation is that Star Wars 1977 is where it all began. I’ve also seen newer timelines from official Disney material that use Episode 7 and the destruction of Starkiller base as the start of a new dating system or reference point. (bleh…) It’s like the Disney “regime” took some cues from actual dictators and rewrote (fictional) history to center around a new favored cult of personality.

Channel72 said:

I think Star Dates contain meta-information about the actual episode or season number, IIRC. But I doubt they were ever used consistently. In reality, an actual inter-stellar calendar system would have to somehow compensate for the bizarre, counter-intuitive fact about our Universe that “now” is a subjective concept entirely dependent on the location and speed of an observer.

Anyway, yeah the Battle of Endor makes more sense logically as a starting point for the new calendar. From an in-Universe perspective, I don’t know when the new dating system officially began. Was it established immediately after the Battle of Yavin (perhaps partially as a propaganda tool for the Rebellion) or did they think of it later and then retroactively apply it backwards to begin at Yavin? Who knows, I doubt any canonical source addresses the issue. In any case, real world calendars are often conceived of after the fact and then applied retroactively to some past duration of time. Perhaps in retrospect, the Rebels came to believe that the Battle of Yavin was like a “sacred turning point” in their favored historical narrative, and so they chose that as “Year 0”.

Obviously, the real world explanation is that Star Wars 1977 is where it all began. I’ve also seen newer timelines from official Disney material that use Episode 7 and the destruction of Starkiller base as the start of a new dating system or reference point. (bleh…) It’s like the Disney “regime” took some cues from actual dictators and rewrote (fictional) history to center around a new favored cult of personality.

Yeah I think this is correct. They either applied it retroactively or they jumped the gun and decided it was the most important thing ever before they knew an even bigger victory was a few years away.

The different variants for the comics do we really need 3 different versions of Empire Strikes Back. the Dark horse colors in the Omnibus six volume, the original colors in facsimile in original Marvel years. Plus the all new stand alone remastered version. Plus there are 3 different versions of Jedi and 2 of the Roy Thomas comic.

Because the omnibus is the 1997 special edition comic and they didn’t even include the original comic.

Wait I mean 4 versions because you also have the black and white edition scanned from the original art which is very much out of print for the Roy Thomas Star Wars comic, and the Al Williamson The Empire Strikes Back.

And not even getting into variant covers for the hardbacks and the fact they have like 5 different covers per issue of some of their comics.

I really hate the Dark Empire plot. It was the one thing I was happy to have gone when Disney took over…

The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. They literally quoted Palpatine from Revenge of the Sith.

Rey was the daughter of his clone. His clone had no force powers and was a disappointment.

how he was able to transfer his soul into another dying clone, and maintain his midichlorians they never explain.

there is no way his body survived the death stars explosion or falling into a reactor. It’s absurd even for Star Wars.

Spartacus01 said:

davidt0504 said:

I really hate the Dark Empire plot. It was the one thing I was happy to have gone when Disney took over…

Too bad they repeated that same plot in The Rise of Skywalker, with the only difference being that, at least, in Dark Empire they tried to explain how the hell Palpatine managed to come back, whereas in The Rise of Skywalker they did not explain anything.

Exactly. Honestly, I enjoyed both TFA and TLJ decently enough, but my one hold out was how they would wrap it up with the yet unannounced IX. As soon as I heard “the laugh” at the end of the first trailer/teaser my heart dropped.

Dark Empire was pretty basic and occasionally silly, a newer full movie version could have worked if it was more complex instead of dumber.

My biggest problem with Dark Empire is that Luke’s plan works. It’s an understandable error for a hero to want to infiltrate and sabotage the enemy from the inside. It’s understandable why that’s a bad idea when the dark side is involved. But it basically does everything it was supposed to with no lasting consequences. He gets the world devastators shut off and saves everyone. Then when he would go evil, Leia saves him and he’s fine. It trivializes the whole concept of turning to the dark side and makes the Emperor look idiotic for gambling everything on trying to turn Luke twice in a row.

I think Timothy Zahn noticed it and tried to retcon in the idea that there were lasting effects. I think it’s in Vision of the Future. Mara Jade tells Luke that there’s always been something off about him ever since those events and it affected his judgment during a lot of the other EU stories.

Still though Luke’s plan seems like it was the only way out of that situation, at least in the short term when Palpatine had everyone dead to rights.

I was going to say how the color person ruined excellent pencils/inking with that “esoteric” color scheme in Dark Empire.

Spartacus01 said:

My biggest problem with Dark Empire is the fact that it exists.

100%! It destroys the narrative core of the original saga.

KOTOR taking place so soon after TOTJ.

Superweapon VII said:

BedeHistory731 said:

I was going to say how the color person ruined excellent pencils/inking with that “esoteric” color scheme in Dark Empire.

Cam Kennedy coloured his own art, and the main reason he went with that colour scheme was due to failing vision from glaucoma.

Ah, I didn’t know that and now I feel like an asshole.

Dark Empire supposedly ruining the chosen one story and Saga of Darth Vader doesn’t bother me, because neither of those things existed before the prequels.

For me the easier critique it’s out of character for Luke, he faced his trial in Return of the Jedi and did not go over to the Dark Side. Veitch, on the other hand probably thought well Luke got a taste of the Dark Side in ROTJ why he wouldn’t go over.

A lot of EU has to do certain things like the Rebellion can’t be victorious on Endor we can’t have a happy ending. We need to have decades of further conflict, Sith and Jedi wars, Vong. A second Galactic Civil war.

I do like the unaltered trilogy in that is has a beginning, a middle and an end. and yeah they celebrate with Teddy Bears. So what. It’s a simple fairy tale. And good triumphs over evil. I’m saying that and do like Dark Empire over ROTJ.

What would a post 1998 EU look like I often wonder if the prequels were wiped from the timeline and Dave’s clone wars never happened.

Bantam solution for everything was Superweapon of the week. What would have happened if Del Rey did not get the book license for everything except the Han Solo trilogy by Daley, The Lando books and the novelizations of SW, TESB and RotJ.

Going into the heart of darkness to understand the darkside is exactly what Ulic did. It seems to be something Veitch was interested in, if he used it more than once.

I’m going to infiltrate the Sith from within and slowly walk the path, I won’t fully go over. He gets a taste of power like a drug and it’s so seductive he loses himself. Then he slays his brother, a kinslaying there is no going back from that. Nomi took pity on him and cut him off from the force.

Yoda warned Luke. not to walk the quick and easy path. Forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.

JadedSkywalker said:

Going into the heart of darkness to understand the darkside is exactly what Ulic did. It seems to be something Veitch was interested in, if he used it more than once.

I’m going to infiltrate the Sith from within and slowly walk the path, I won’t fully go over. He gets a taste of power like a drug and it’s so seductive he loses himself. Then he slays his brother, a kinslaying there is no going back from that. Nomi took pity on him and cut him off from the force.

Yoda warned Luke. not to walk the quick and easy path. Forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.

Dark Empire was first. The Ulic story is an in-universe point of comparison/warning for the Luke story in Dark Empire, then it was fleshed out in Tales of the Jedi.

The infiltration thing does make it a little different, but because of Palpatine, the scenario and outcome of it are still similar to Return of the Jedi.

JadedSkywalker said:

Going into the heart of darkness to understand the darkside is exactly what Ulic did. It seems to be something Veitch was interested in, if he used it more than once.

I recall Veitch saying that Carl Jung said that you have to embrace your shadow in order to defeat it or something like that when asked why he had Luke and Ulic try to defeat the dark side from within.