Originally posted by: Trooperman
Hello everyone! This is Trooperman
Welcome back!
One concern that I do have is the use of the name “Darth Grievous” throughout Episode I. I much prefer “Darth Maul”- it’s so much better aesthetically that it’d almost be worth it to me to just leave General Grievous as is in Episode III.
We don't get to hear his name a lot -- maybe a combo of "Maul Grievous" instead of "Darth Grievous" would suffice. I never understood why "Darth" suddenly became a title. Clearly, in ANH, it isn't a title since Obi Wan calls Vader "Darth" repeatedly. It was his first name, as conceived -- changed retroactively into a catch-all title "Darth SIdious" "Darth Maul" "Count Dukoo" "General Grievous" "Darth Vader" -- what's the rhyme and reason there?
I’m also very pleased that you’ve decided to go with my plan to title this film “Star Wars”. I’m not as happy about the omission of the prologue. Thinking back, I didn’t really care about having a LOTR style narrator and accompanying video. Even a series of blue sentences (in the same font as “A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away) that fade in and out would be very nice. We could have eerie music- or just fade the very brief and succinctly worded cards in and out. Kind of like the beginning of “2010”. I just think we need something for the beginning of everything, telling us about a war between the Jedi and the Sith in which the Sith were completely wiped out. “But there were whispers ever afterwards that the Sith had survived…”. Fade to black. “STAR WARS” logo appears, with familiar music.
Well, you have a lot of pull as spiritual leader around here. I must say, however, that this sounds like something to accomplish in the crawl proper. Does it really make sense to have a crawl to set up the crawl? If we have a single crawl after the title -- it should (and this was a disappointment about TPM for me) begin with a paragraph that sets up the Galaxy we're dealing with. "For Thousands of generations, the Galactic Republic has stood. Long ago, the Jedi Knights -- guided by the mysterious FORCE -- defeated the dark power of the evil Sith, establishing freedom and prosperity. The people of the Galaxy then allied their star systems into a single Republic for the protection of all..."
MUCH needed -- great news that we can pick what part of the frame we want, since some of the time it'll be the top portion, sometimes the bottom. I was afraid it came down to just slapping black bars onto the frame-- which would ruin some shots.
YES- and this is the most important to me. I’ve realized that to some people, believability in the PT is a big thing. To some, it’s the storyline. To some, it’s the excitement of adding new scenes, or changing lines, or what have you. To me, it’s the overall aesthetics, the cinematography, and the music that is most important. When I’m editing, this is first and foremost on my mind. Occasionally, I will make a decision to keep a beat, or to cut something out, not because it makes a lot of sense, but because it is dramatically effective. There are many, many things in these prequels where people might ask, “Why did you change this? There was nothing wrong with the way it was before.” There may not have been anything wrong with it before, but why settle for mediocrity when you can make it breathtaking, exhilarating…classic?
I’m off on a tangent. I will try to comment on some more specifics later. I still don’t know how a dream will advance the story any. If anything, it would seem to be a break stylewise from SW, especially for a stand-alone movie like the original. Yes, I know it will be done in SOTDS and in Ep. III, but there is a very important purpose in these cases. I would still need to be convinced that this is important to the story.
Classic. High standards indeed. We'll do our best and count on your help in the end -- but I think starting with story is the way to go. If we can make the story solid, then things have a chance to become classic. But no bit will work at that level if the overall story isn't somehow elevated first.
I love the idea of the first Anakin/Padme scene being a haunting moment, with the force theme playing and no dialogue. I would not abuse this technique of using little to no dialogue in a scene, though; I think part of what makes it special is its contrast with everything else, which could be lost if it is overused.
Agreed -- I think the footage isn't there to do it anyway. But if the first beat can be haunting, then the rest will play better. There are many scenes, however, that will play better with LESS dialogue. There is a dirth of OT style scenes that play out without wall-to-wall expositonal dialogue. "You come from a warm planet, space is cold, I don't need this to remember you, I care about you too, but... BLECH!" Reducing things to a couple words and the looks on their faces makes that scene so much better.
Anyway, thanks very much for reading. I can’t believe the number of responses this thread has gotten in such a short time- why didn’t you guys do this for my thread?
Maybe because I sometimes don’t respond for days on end! (my fault). And a new “Ranch” website- wow! (I still think we can generate a better name). Anyway, with the new interest in this new fan-created SW saga, it doesn’t look like we’ll have trouble securing voice actors for whatever we may need (sinister, Ensligh speaking battle droids, perhaps- to cut down on subtitles, Jar-Jar, maybe even someone’s son to dub Anakin? That’s certainly pushing it).
Hello everyone! This is Trooperman
Welcome back!
One concern that I do have is the use of the name “Darth Grievous” throughout Episode I. I much prefer “Darth Maul”- it’s so much better aesthetically that it’d almost be worth it to me to just leave General Grievous as is in Episode III.
We don't get to hear his name a lot -- maybe a combo of "Maul Grievous" instead of "Darth Grievous" would suffice. I never understood why "Darth" suddenly became a title. Clearly, in ANH, it isn't a title since Obi Wan calls Vader "Darth" repeatedly. It was his first name, as conceived -- changed retroactively into a catch-all title "Darth SIdious" "Darth Maul" "Count Dukoo" "General Grievous" "Darth Vader" -- what's the rhyme and reason there?
I’m also very pleased that you’ve decided to go with my plan to title this film “Star Wars”. I’m not as happy about the omission of the prologue. Thinking back, I didn’t really care about having a LOTR style narrator and accompanying video. Even a series of blue sentences (in the same font as “A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away) that fade in and out would be very nice. We could have eerie music- or just fade the very brief and succinctly worded cards in and out. Kind of like the beginning of “2010”. I just think we need something for the beginning of everything, telling us about a war between the Jedi and the Sith in which the Sith were completely wiped out. “But there were whispers ever afterwards that the Sith had survived…”. Fade to black. “STAR WARS” logo appears, with familiar music.
Well, you have a lot of pull as spiritual leader around here. I must say, however, that this sounds like something to accomplish in the crawl proper. Does it really make sense to have a crawl to set up the crawl? If we have a single crawl after the title -- it should (and this was a disappointment about TPM for me) begin with a paragraph that sets up the Galaxy we're dealing with. "For Thousands of generations, the Galactic Republic has stood. Long ago, the Jedi Knights -- guided by the mysterious FORCE -- defeated the dark power of the evil Sith, establishing freedom and prosperity. The people of the Galaxy then allied their star systems into a single Republic for the protection of all..."
MTH in particular- GREAT conceptual ideas and great bits of script you’ve posted. I especially like the new Boss Nass. How intelligent and wise he is now! The only issue is the cartoonish imagery, which I suppose is cured by taking the eyes off of the picture and onto the subtitles.
Thanks -- and yes, that's my idea. Plus, the cartoons become less annoying when the substance of their minds becomes intriguing. Boss Nass has to be the first to mention "The Prophecy" and how this feels like an age of prophecy -- setting Qui Gonn up for his discovery.
Excellent advice which I hope we can live up to. Your help will be most appreciated in a final pass, as you suggest.
I can try to share with everyone the specifics of using the full-screen DVD for anamorphic widescreen shots, but it generally just involves an anamorphic math calculation, making the choice of what part of the full-screen frame you want, and sometimes, a bit of sharpening to counter the softness sometimes apparent using the method. I think the advantages in storytelling and cinematography far outweigh the technical issues.
Thanks -- and yes, that's my idea. Plus, the cartoons become less annoying when the substance of their minds becomes intriguing. Boss Nass has to be the first to mention "The Prophecy" and how this feels like an age of prophecy -- setting Qui Gonn up for his discovery.
I’ll continue to follow this thread- however, I’m not going to be able to give consistent feedback and ideas on this, as I don’t have a clear picture in my head of what Episode I should be like. It’s such a flawed film, but there are so many interesting ideas to fix it. I liked MF’s approach to Jar-Jar; cocky and arrogant. However, I also think that some charm and wit is in order for his character, along with some British or Australian type of subtitles. That’s my picture of Jar-Jar (and the alien voice certainly needs to sound more normal in pitch). As far as the imagery- I would REALLY think to yourself with every shot- how is the cinematography? Is this classic filmmaking? Are these good compositions? Are the colors ridiculous, does the CG look like a cartoon, and are the colors oversaturated? That’s one big issue I have with this movie, particularly with the end battle. I don’t think they could have made the imagery more phony. We need realistic and muted colors, better and more dramatic lighting, impact flashes and lighting fluctuations during the battle, etc.
Excellent advice which I hope we can live up to. Your help will be most appreciated in a final pass, as you suggest.
I can try to share with everyone the specifics of using the full-screen DVD for anamorphic widescreen shots, but it generally just involves an anamorphic math calculation, making the choice of what part of the full-screen frame you want, and sometimes, a bit of sharpening to counter the softness sometimes apparent using the method. I think the advantages in storytelling and cinematography far outweigh the technical issues.
MUCH needed -- great news that we can pick what part of the frame we want, since some of the time it'll be the top portion, sometimes the bottom. I was afraid it came down to just slapping black bars onto the frame-- which would ruin some shots.
YES- and this is the most important to me. I’ve realized that to some people, believability in the PT is a big thing. To some, it’s the storyline. To some, it’s the excitement of adding new scenes, or changing lines, or what have you. To me, it’s the overall aesthetics, the cinematography, and the music that is most important. When I’m editing, this is first and foremost on my mind. Occasionally, I will make a decision to keep a beat, or to cut something out, not because it makes a lot of sense, but because it is dramatically effective. There are many, many things in these prequels where people might ask, “Why did you change this? There was nothing wrong with the way it was before.” There may not have been anything wrong with it before, but why settle for mediocrity when you can make it breathtaking, exhilarating…classic?
I’m off on a tangent. I will try to comment on some more specifics later. I still don’t know how a dream will advance the story any. If anything, it would seem to be a break stylewise from SW, especially for a stand-alone movie like the original. Yes, I know it will be done in SOTDS and in Ep. III, but there is a very important purpose in these cases. I would still need to be convinced that this is important to the story.
Classic. High standards indeed. We'll do our best and count on your help in the end -- but I think starting with story is the way to go. If we can make the story solid, then things have a chance to become classic. But no bit will work at that level if the overall story isn't somehow elevated first.
I love the idea of the first Anakin/Padme scene being a haunting moment, with the force theme playing and no dialogue. I would not abuse this technique of using little to no dialogue in a scene, though; I think part of what makes it special is its contrast with everything else, which could be lost if it is overused.
Agreed -- I think the footage isn't there to do it anyway. But if the first beat can be haunting, then the rest will play better. There are many scenes, however, that will play better with LESS dialogue. There is a dirth of OT style scenes that play out without wall-to-wall expositonal dialogue. "You come from a warm planet, space is cold, I don't need this to remember you, I care about you too, but... BLECH!" Reducing things to a couple words and the looks on their faces makes that scene so much better.
Anyway, thanks very much for reading. I can’t believe the number of responses this thread has gotten in such a short time- why didn’t you guys do this for my thread?
Maybe because I sometimes don’t respond for days on end! (my fault). And a new “Ranch” website- wow! (I still think we can generate a better name). Anyway, with the new interest in this new fan-created SW saga, it doesn’t look like we’ll have trouble securing voice actors for whatever we may need (sinister, Ensligh speaking battle droids, perhaps- to cut down on subtitles, Jar-Jar, maybe even someone’s son to dub Anakin? That’s certainly pushing it). We tried to hijack your thread over Thanksgiving -- but it didn't really help you
Consider this whole thread an extention of yours -- and I must point out that things have slowed down after narrowing the focus to just Episode I. Discussing the whole Saga invites so many emotions and opinions that it was easy to rip through a dozen posts a day! Now it's getting awful close to a real project.Dubbing the Gungans will be so hard, though, won't it? -- the bilingual Jar Jar is smarter than an accented English speaking Jar Jar. Plus there's Boss Nass to cover -- and both of them have such performance issues... Subtitles improve the Gungans in many ways, I believe. But adding English/Australian coloquialisms to their dialogue might make sense "Aye, lad, I was banished. It's grim to think of it." Erm... someone can help, I hope. That's my vote, anyway.
Dubbing Anakin might help cover some of his performance-- but that's tough work. I've been strategizing ways of capitalizing on the best of Jake Lloyd's work -- of which the best is quite good. I think GL made the mistake of trying to keep massive amounts of exposition in the movie, coming from Anakin's character. Cut a lot of it and not only does Anakin get better, but several scenes improve as well.
Good to hear from you, Trooperman. Come back soon!