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The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread — Page 12

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After having read the first page I got very excited about this project. I myself have been working to do the same thing. I really am not too big of a fan of the prequels, but I still enjoy them and the thing that bothered me was that they are impossible to watch in order. So I decided to start working on my own edit to smooth out the rough parts. So far I have only finished a rough cut of Menace. Concerning Obi-Wan telling Luke the truth. Having watch the OT countless times, I never really saw Obi-Wan's lying to Luke as harming Obi-Wan's honor or anything of that sort. I don't think a lot of people did. What has changed? Just because now we have seen Obi-Wan leave Anakin alone on the shore of a lake of lava to burn to death? I am sure in Episode III Obi would not have just left him there if he thought he would be rescued. I would have liked it better if in Ep 3 Obi thought he was dead, not left him for dead. Then be surprised when he realized Darth was his old padawan. But at any rate, let us look at it from this point of view. We have said Luke's NOOOOO! in Empire was a bit of over acting, and that now the surprise is dead so the scene has no reason to live. Well, just imagine you believe your father was a great man, but is now dead. You don't know much at all about your dad or mom, you aunt and uncle always seem a bit sensitive to that subject and tell you as little as they can. One day you meet an old man who it turns out fought in a war with your father. You realize either this man is lying to you or your uncle and aunt have lied to you your entire life. Then he says that your father was his good friend but he turned evil. And he is not in fact dead but he is still alive and is Saddam Hussein. Don't you think you would be doing more than merely going, "whoa" inside you head as Luke appears to be doing and continue reconnecting your droid's arm. Comon, these things are contrary to everything you have ever known your entire life, maybe you had some idea that your uncle wasn't quite telling you everything. It is clear that Obi-Wan was trying to protect Luke. Also you can see from Episode III that the whole thing was prettty rough on Obi-Wan emotionaly. He has had plenty of years living alone in the dessert to reflect on the tragic turning of the man who was like a brother to him. You don't even need the line of Yoda telling Obi not to let the children know of their true parentage. It just isn't needed. Probably Obi-Wan has consoled himself through the years saying that Anakin died the moment he turned to the dark side. It isn't that Obi is merely lying through his teeth. Also at this point Obi-Wan believes that Luke is still unkown to Vader.
Anyway, for my personal edit of the saga, I intended to have a silent flash back of Obi-Wan yelling "Anakin, you were my brother!" and Anakin yelling out "I hate you!" when Obi-Wan is telling luke about his father being murdered by Vader. I think seeing that the old man is remembering this that was probably the most painful moment in his life when the man he considered his brother was lying on the ground burning to death and using all his force to shout the words I hate you to him. I think this shows the pain old Ben still feels inside and makes his lying more justifiable.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Yes! That's what I'm talking about (well, everything except the flashback).

I will be convinced about Maul = Grievous when I see a flawlessly smooth scene which tells the story of it. I'm not holding my breath.

Agreed with those who want less subtitles than BotF - what about MagFan's dialogue for Jar Jar, but spoken in English? Even the Neimoidians could be re-dubbed in English with new dialogue.

I repeat that making Sidious into Dooku will probably have a negative effect on MTH's streamlining plans. Beware of change for change's sake.
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Originally posted by: MTHaslett
I'm confused about what we're trying to build with all this Christopher Lee dialogue.


Again, just like Greivous, we're talking about a major character that appears out of thin air. No set-up. No foreshadowing. And all of a sudden, you get to Episode II and you're supposed to care that this "Dooku" guy was once a Jedi but now is an enemy of the Republic. Then you find out he was actually Qui-Gon's master. THEN you find out he's now a Dark Lord of the Sith.

If you say the spine of the story is Qui-Gon and the Council, and Dooku supposedly turned against the Jedi Order and went searching for Sidious because of what happened to Qui-Gon, then why can't we incorporate some of that into Episode I?

You don't have to get in depth and derail the whole movie, but at least establish some sort of relationship between Qui-Gon, Dooku and the Council.

What if, for instance, Qui-Gon was talking to Dooku on his little Jedi communicator about the "vergence" he has encountered? Dooku might advise him to bring him before the council.

And I'd love, love, love to construct a scene for the end between Dooku, Yoda and Mace where Dooku expresses his anger at the Council about what has happened to Qui-Gon and vows to track down the Sith master behind all of this. I just think this would lead us into the situation in Episode II rather nicely.



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Here is a great quote from Christopher Lee from the Man with the Golden Gun

"That it is. But it remains the only true test for gentlemen. "

"What do they teach at that academy? Ballet dancing? " - a funny line that could be inserted into the duel

"That's no problem. "

"Not bad, not bad at all. But you're going to have to do better if you want to come into my money. "

"You see, Mr. Bond, I always thought I loved animals. Then I discovered that I enjoyed killing people even more. "

"Forget the girl, she's replaceable. Eventually, I shall find what she stole from me. Personally, I've got nothing against you, Mr. Bond, and to keep it that way, let us hope our paths never cross again. Please don't try to follow me."

"Wouldn't do that either, look behind you. Lower. "

"We are the best."

Interesting quote that Ian McDiarmid says in Dirty Rotten Scoundrals

"Welcome to Hell. "

and this is from Gorky Park

"Promise me I can have your face when the breath has left your body. "
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C3PX:
"...Comon, these things are contrary to everything you have ever known your entire life, maybe you had some idea that your uncle wasn't quite telling you everything. It is clear that Obi-Wan was trying to protect Luke. Also you can see from Episode III that the whole thing was prettty rough on Obi-Wan emotionaly. He has had plenty of years living alone in the dessert to reflect on the tragic turning of the man who was like a brother to him. You don't even need the line of Yoda telling Obi not to let the children know of their true parentage. It just isn't needed. Probably Obi-Wan has consoled himself through the years saying that Anakin died the moment he turned to the dark side. It isn't that Obi is merely lying through his teeth. Also at this point Obi-Wan believes that Luke is still unkown to Vader. "

***

Opinions will vary, but it comes down to how "honorable" you think it is to lie.

Look at it this way: Lying is dishonorable and only justifiable if there's some greater good to be served.

Lying to Luke served what greater good? Did it prepare him to face Vader? No, it opened up a great opportunity for Vader to undermine everything Obi Wan and Yoda taught him. Did it protect Luke? Protect him from what? He is not a retard or a psychologically imbalanced infant -- he sees his uncle and aunt, the only parents he's ever known murdered and that only inspires him to do the right thing.

Any presumption that Luke can't "handle the truth" flies in the face of everything Luke Skywalker does. The guy blows up the fu*king Death Star, I think he can handle an unpleasant truth about his father. Plenty of murderers have children. Those kids know about their parent's past and if they have good guidance and strong character (as Luke Skywalker CLEARLY HAS, Ben is a Jedi Knight afterall) -- they often turn out to be steeled in their resolve to avoid the mistakes of their parents. There is no statistical evidence that killers will have evil children who fall to the dark side. It's nonsense to say Luke is being "protected."


What is protected is the "secret" which was revealed in 1980 -- a secret that was NOT PART OF THE STORY when the first movie was made. Vader became Anakin Skywalker in Draft 3 of ESB. They played fast and loose with Ben's story and let a lie stand and explained it later as "the truth from a certain point of view."

But they never explain why the lie needed to happen -- they only JUSTIFY the lie in retrospect. Why? Because the lie did NOT need to happen. It WASN'T a lie until Vader was changed to become Anakin.

This may sit fine with you, but it tinges everything Obi Wan does in the OT because he is pointlessly dishonest with Luke, sets him up for a horrible fall, and never gets around to giving a decent reason why he did it.


But that's not the official view of this thread, of course. It looks like the lie will stay. I will agitate for a line that lets Yoda explain the necessity of the lie ahead of time in Episode III like "Know the truth, they cannot. Like a beacon, their emotions would be. Find them, the Sith will if told they are." THEN Obi Wan will actually be protecting Luke from something -- but without that reason, it's just convenient for the story to make Ben a liar -- and that's the only way to put it. He LIES. It gains him NOTHING. And he NEVER EXPLAINS WHY.

SORRY for all the CAPS -- I find that people never address these issues in trying to justify their affection for the lie as it is.

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Originally posted by: InfoDroid

If you say the spine of the story is Qui-Gon and the Council, and Dooku supposedly turned against the Jedi Order and went searching for Sidious because of what happened to Qui-Gon, then why can't we incorporate some of that into Episode I?

You don't have to get in depth and derail the whole movie, but at least establish some sort of relationship between Qui-Gon, Dooku and the Council.

What if, for instance, Qui-Gon was talking to Dooku on his little Jedi communicator about the "vergence" he has encountered? Dooku might advise him to bring him before the council.

And I'd love, love, love to construct a scene for the end between Dooku, Yoda and Mace where Dooku expresses his anger at the Council about what has happened to Qui-Gon and vows to track down the Sith master behind all of this. I just think this would lead us into the situation in Episode II rather nicely.


I get it now. That's really ambitious. I'd like it all to fit in the movie as if that were the end of things -- kind of like Vader escaping in ANH. Vader escapes, but there's no indication of where he's going or what revenge he will plan. There never needed to be a sequel -- but the sequel was so good that you're glad there is one. That would be the ideal relationship between Episode I and Episode II -- Ep I should feel complete until you see Ep II and realize how much there is left to explore.

If we believe Dukoo will find and deal with the Sith and that he's good enough to not need any help, that would be frickin' perfect. Like "now the big dogs are on it." The Council has awakened.

That's a great end to shoot for. I get it now.

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It's a good idea, but I'll need your help in mapping it all out, MTH. I'm depending on you... to be the eyes, ears, and voice of the Repub... er... this edit.

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Well, I think the ideas we are having for "adding" characters here and there are all amazing ideas. However, I feel we may be letting our imaginations get the better of us. For instance, a scene between dooku , yoda and mace would be amazing at the end of episode II. But how in the hell are we to accomplish this? I mean, we don't have the extra footage of yoda and the gang in the council or anywhere else and where do we get this footage of christopher lee in jedi looking robes standing in the middle of the set with them? I mean, I know that it is possible to do some slight cg tweaking to scenes (ie. removing certain object from a space by painting it out).......but I think we're getting a little too excited writing scenes that are impossible to create. On a similar matter, how do we do the grevious construction scene? If we rely on home-bought computer products for special effects, there's no way it can match to what ILM is doing in the real film. I just feel like we need to stay within the parameters of what the films gave us and what we can borrow from other films (like blade runner for coruscant).

Now, i'm totally with you guys, i'm up for fleshing out whatver stories come in to the board.....and I love EVERYBODYS ideas. I even really love the Maul=Grevious idea, but I also think it is impossible to pull off. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with having Maul and Grevious two different characters in the prequel trilogy. I mean, I just don't feel like everyone has to connect or flow in and out of each prequel. Especially because Ep.2 is 10 years after the ep.1. Like I have said before each movie of the old trilogy introduced new characters to us: Empire had lando, boba fett, bounty hunters, rebel commanders, different ships.... and of course Return of the Jedi had jabba (although mentioned in Ep.5) , general reikan, different imperial officers........granted there are no HUGE characters hopping in and out.

My idea (i'm sure it's not popular) would be to have Grevious reveal himself to be Master Sypho Dias (unresolved mystery of AOTC) and there are plenty of ways to make that a believable sub plot and an interesting one at that. I also like the character and mystique of Darth Maul soo much that I feel if his character need only expanded upon a bit (extra dialouge and re-arranging) it would add the justification to his character. I also hate the idea of him being called Grevious all throughout ep.1, the name Darth maul is just more captivating to me. Lucas once said that the 3 bad guys of the prequels all symbalized what would become darth vader in the end: Maul was aggresive and pure evil, Dooku/tyranus was sensible yet powerful and intimidating, and Grevious of course was a strong warrior built into a half living, half cyborg freak. And to be honest I don't see what is wrong with this analogy at all.

But without having any extra dialouge from sidious (non transmission garble), extra footage of dooku standing around a dark room, or any footage of grevious being constructed or EVEN a closeup of his face as his eyes open.......we don't have any of this footage, and we can't create it out of thin air........I'm just wondering where the conversation is going on these scenes that don't exist. Alright , that's just my opinion for right now, i'm sure i'll add some more later, if you don't mind. By the way, all you guys are BRILLIANT, GENIUS! Just thought i'd let you know, keep up the conversation!



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What about the ROTS Video Game cinematics and the Star Wars Clone Wars video game, anyone know if there are Dooku cinematics in them?
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There might be Mask, but of course they would just be video game quality renderings of the characters with the "animated show" voices doing the characters. There's just nothing photo realistic or convincing....that I can think of anyway.
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I wonder how if we did voice overs or use like the LOTR/James Bond dialogue of Chris or something to convey what you want instead of dialogue.

Hmm

Did you like any of that James Bond dialogue I found?
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With the Dooku going off to get revenge on the sith for the death of Qui-Gon at the end of The Phantom Menace idea somebody threw out there, if that really seems like an important plot point you could throw it into the Ep.2 crawl that Qui-Gon's former master left the Jedi Order to seek revenge and has just recently resurfaced leading the seperatist movement. But I suppose if the point of that at the end of Ep.1 would just have been to make it a film that could stand on its own, then my suggestion really doesn't add up to much.

I see a bunch of ideas running through here that I can't imagine anybody here having the skill or technology to do, but what ever becomes of this I am sure it will be interesting if it is ever completed. However, with things like Maul becoming Grevious, it is going a bit more than above and beyond in filling plot holes in the saga. I don't think it is going to become the definative version (although I would loved to be surprised) of the saga we will all wish to show our kids for the sake of them not thinking their dad (or mom) is a looser for liking such crap. Whatever comes out of it, I'll be looking forward to seeing it.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Dooku in TPM: Dialogue on the com link is good in concept, but remember: "Send to transmissions of any kind." I doubt his communicator razor would have the range anyway. Talking with Yoda and Mace could be made possible by utilizing the scene with Obi-Wan contacting them via hologram about Kamino. I'm not saying to do this, but that is somewhere to start if you want to experiment with the idea. Personally I think TPM is fine without Dooku, especially if we're keeping the mindset of Episode I being a standalone introduction to a six part saga. There is proper set-up and backstory for the character, and we understand his significance.

Grievous is a completely different situation in that he comes out of nowhere and suddenly becomes the end-all be-all of the Clone Wars. The thought of making him Sifo-Dyas crossed my mind as well, and though it would indeed answer who ordered the clones, in the end it would cause more questions than answers. The pay-off of him being Maul is infinitley more intrguing for both the plot and the character himself. I totally agree if we can't show the birth of Grievous professionally we shouldn't show it at all. That said, I don't think that would make it necessary to scrap Maul=Grievous totally. I still believe it can work without SEEING the procedure or whatever, and should at least attempt that route.
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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Talking with Yoda and Mace could be made possible by utilizing the scene with Obi-Wan contacting them via hologram about Kamino. I'm not saying to do this, but that is somewhere to start if you want to experiment with the idea.


That was my first thought as well, until I remembered CGI Yoda would throw a big monkey wrench into that plan.

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That's somtething I've been meaning to mention: What are we to do about the CGI Yoda in Episode I? He's coming in 2007, but we certainly don't want to wait that long. Dare I suggest we prepare for a Special Edition of our edit when he becomes available? I think so, what about you guys?
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Whew, this is getting intense. On a different note, I am going through MagFan's Balance of the Force and jotting down ideas that could be used for this future edit.

Just for the start of the movie:
-Slow down the shot of the ship landing and the doids turning around. Adding to it some real neat "sweeping" star wars like music would be a neat way to open up this space opera saga. I just thinking it would look better marveling at the ship docking the trade fed. ship with nice music.

-redoing the lightsabre effect sounds will go a long way as well. They sound too quite in the PT as opposed to the CT where they have unique start up ignigitions and hums. I would try slowing down the shot of the them igniting their sabres from the gas filled room. Maybe treat it like it's a tense moment "are they alive?" then one, then the other lightsaber come on.

-I have an idea of replacing the trade federation music with Xizor's theme from the Shadow's of the Empire soundtrack. It is an amazing piece and would work for a better "feel" of the trade federation. I know that the original music isn't that bad, however we've heard it all over all three of the original prequels and if we replace it , it would help bring a new look and sound to the scenes. If you have the soundtrack , give it a listen and tell me what you think.

-I would suggest cutting out the ENTIRE underwater sequence. It has no point to it all other than some random action. I would suggest having jar jar mention to them a city of humans on the side of the forest..... then qui-gon says "A city? Can you take us there"....Jar Jar in his excitement sayd "Sure, I know a secret route, this way!"...............Then bam, they end up at Theed. For gods sakes we need to make jar jar a helpful character, one that they seriously owe some debt to.

-While the jedi are ready to pounce on the "extermination droids" while they are marching through the city: If we could have qui-gon say a line similar to "they'll all be killed, let's go" while his back is turned, this might add some more tensity to the situation the queens group getting blasted to death. I was also thinking of having jar jar warn obi won or qui gon during a battle to "watch out behind you" and have them strike a battle droid. This again, will show how jar jar is helping the best he can in this situation.

Comments? suggestions?
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CC/ID -- regarding cg Yoda, I remember that we thought we could get our ideas together for a release next May. Now, that's a short window, but it would be nice. I think a SE edition in 2007 will be a natural because we'll see better ways to accomplish our ideas and fixes for things that don't come off as well as we plan. I think the idea of making these PT movies match the style of the OT movies will be something that gets better and better with several passes.

But if we're to get an Episode I out by May, we need to get our ideas up and running now, so we need decisions:

What's at issue right now?

Dubbing Jar Jar or subtitles; Dubbing Nemoidians or subtitles; Adding Dukoo or not; many other things, I'm sure.

I vote for the sake of speed that we go the BOTF route with the aliens. I actually prefer reading Jar Jar to hearing him talk, no matter what accent he has because his performance is SOOO cartoony that the subtitles take the edge off. I have a lot of specific ideas for improving his presence through different edits -- using the Full Screen transfer as often as possible to create shots where he gets marginalized or even cut off more. Part of the problem with him is that he is always "featured;" he's always framed a little too well and not treated as part of the scenery enough (even though they tried). I find the alien voice he has in BOTF makes him more interesting -- he understands English, he requires the viewer to read, he gets to say whatever we want regardless of his lip flap (which will get annoying if we make him speak English versions of the AdMan dialogue).

I also LOVE LOVE LOVE the "Passion" dialogue for the Nemoidians.

I love the ideas for putting Dukoo into Ep I, but I don't see how to accomplish it seamlessly yet. I have to review the material unless someone else comes up with the perfect plan.

I have a 10 page document of hte other EP I stuff we discussed over in the SOTD thread. I'll try to edit it down and post it soon so we can have a kind of master list to work from.

Then we need to see who's going to do the actual editing (InfoDroid and...?) and get to work.

Then, I suppose, we should start a thread for just Episode I and leave this thread alive as the "all episode" bible.

I'll be glad when Trooperman gets back to the boards more often too because he's a good voice to hear in these discussions.

But are you two ready to start nailing things down, CC and ID?

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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
He's coming in 2007, but we certainly don't want to wait that long. Dare I suggest we prepare for a Special Edition of our edit when he becomes available? I think so, what about you guys?

I think we'll have to, cause I'm not waiting that long either. It shouldn't be too much trouble to just plug him in to the necessary scenes once that footage becomes available... Unless it's in a completely different format like Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Is 2007 even a confirmed date? I know it's long been speculated, but you know how that goes.

Originally Posted by DarthPreston: -I have an idea of replacing the trade federation music with Xizor's theme from the Shadow's of the Empire soundtrack. It is an amazing piece and would work for a better "feel" of the trade federation. I know that the original music isn't that bad, however we've heard it all over all three of the original prequels and if we replace it , it would help bring a new look and sound to the scenes. If you have the soundtrack , give it a listen and tell me what you think.


I'm already on it. Xizor's theme I've long been a fan of, and I've been testing it for the TF. It works best during the invasion scene as the huge line of ships and droids marches toward Theed. It's a definite possibility for a permanent change. Let the Trade Federation Music Defenders start crying now.

-I would suggest cutting out the ENTIRE underwater sequence. It has no point to it all other than some random action. I would suggest having jar jar mention to them a city of humans on the side of the forest..... then qui-gon says "A city? Can you take us there"....Jar Jar in his excitement sayd "Sure, I know a secret route, this way!"...............Then bam, they end up at Theed. For gods sakes we need to make jar jar a helpful character, one that they seriously owe some debt to.


I've already done this for my personal edit of "Star Wars TPM: No Bullshit Edition". And God, the movie flows so much better this way. They go from meeting Jar-Jar, to the invasion scene, to Nute Gunray landing on the planet's surface, "Ah, victory..." Then, boom. The shot from the deleted scene of Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Jar-Jar at the "waterfall" entrance of Theed Palace, and they're immediately off to rescue the queen. You cut TWENTY MINUTES of dead weight! It's absolutely useless material!

Then again, I went on to eliminate any trace of Boss Nass, the Gungans, the Gungan Battle... Most of Jar-Jar, etc... This makes the end flow so much better as well, IMO. Because you're only focusing on Anakin, the Duel, and the Padme/Gunray plot. And that's enough!

For me, it's just much more watchable, because I only have to watch the parts I like. But that's for me to watch personally and not an edition which fits into the saga as a whole. Because cutting those things creates giant plot problems, particularly with Padme's reveal as the Queen, which was a horribly executed subplot anyway.

Whelp, I'm off to finally see Narnia at the recommendation of Commander Courage. I'm hoping to see some good, usable Liam Neeson dialogue up there, CC!

Have a good night, Guys.

--InfoDroid

P.S. - Right now I'm creating a test clip of an Anakin "Death of Qui-Gon" Dream Sequence someone suggested. I like how it's turning out. I'll post it soon.

EDIT: And yes MTH! We're definitely on the same page tonight, as I just went through a "crisis of discouragement" with all the confusion floating around here. It's time to snap together and start making concrete decisions here. Seriously.

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Originally posted by: darthpreston
Whew, this is getting intense. On a different note, I am going through MagFan's Balance of the Force and jotting down ideas that could be used for this future edit.

Just for the start of the movie:
-Slow down the shot of the ship landing and the doids turning around. Adding to it some real neat "sweeping" star wars like music would be a neat way to open up this space opera saga. I just thinking it would look better marveling at the ship docking the trade fed. ship with nice music.

-redoing the lightsabre effect sounds will go a long way as well. They sound too quite in the PT as opposed to the CT where they have unique start up ignigitions and hums. I would try slowing down the shot of the them igniting their sabres from the gas filled room. Maybe treat it like it's a tense moment "are they alive?" then one, then the other lightsaber come on.

-I have an idea of replacing the trade federation music with Xizor's theme from the Shadow's of the Empire soundtrack. It is an amazing piece and would work for a better "feel" of the trade federation. I know that the original music isn't that bad, however we've heard it all over all three of the original prequels and if we replace it , it would help bring a new look and sound to the scenes. If you have the soundtrack , give it a listen and tell me what you think.

-I would suggest cutting out the ENTIRE underwater sequence. It has no point to it all other than some random action. I would suggest having jar jar mention to them a city of humans on the side of the forest..... then qui-gon says "A city? Can you take us there"....Jar Jar in his excitement sayd "Sure, I know a secret route, this way!"...............Then bam, they end up at Theed. For gods sakes we need to make jar jar a helpful character, one that they seriously owe some debt to.

-While the jedi are ready to pounce on the "extermination droids" while they are marching through the city: If we could have qui-gon say a line similar to "they'll all be killed, let's go" while his back is turned, this might add some more tensity to the situation the queens group getting blasted to death. I was also thinking of having jar jar warn obi won or qui gon during a battle to "watch out behind you" and have them strike a battle droid. This again, will show how jar jar is helping the best he can in this situation.

Comments? suggestions?


I love these ideas -- except the underwater sequence has to stay, imo. The BOTF reworking of the Gungan story is a real improvement and the site of the Gungan city is very cool. I don't think we get SMOOTHER by cutting the city, just SHORTER. The smoothest story will allow Qui Gonn (and the audience) to size up the Gungans before we call on them to fight the war in the end.

But the other ideas seem great to me.

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You'll still need to sell me on the Gungan battle, MTH. It's the thing I hate the most about TPM. So, whatever you come up with will have to be good.

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A real quick comment on Jar Jars dialouge. I could certainly go either way on his voice : alien or english. I think english would make him more of a real character (I wish I had the equipment to try dubbing) but the alien voice , of course, would work as well. If we do an alien voice, can we find a different track of alien voice to use? I'm not really a fan anymore of the "reversed/manipulated" foreign language tracks. No matter which way you put it, it kind of just reminds you you are watching an altered edit. It needs to be lower pitched, and I say for the sake of our own edit, we should re-write the dialouge for his character. Magfans were interesting (other than "oh shit, oh shit"), and I never got my hands on AdMans subtitles (could someone post them?).......but we should just go ahead and have him say whatever we want depending on what concrete character we make him out of. I would like to see jar jar as someone who LEFT his village and is wondering the planet looking for adventure, but of course he's not very good at it. He would willingly follow the jedi through their adventure and by the end of the film he would realize, as i've posted before, that he understands and respects his people in the end.

If we decide to keep the scene with the gang confronting Boss Nass in the woods (queen reveal scene), would you guys like me to try an attempt of re-writing this scene with different dialouge, music and editting reactions? This is the one scene that made me sick when I first saw it.....but if we need it for plot reasons, then I would love to have a shot at it.

Having fun!

p.s. Could one of you PM me information on what equipment it takes to dub voice track, alter voice track and then send it to someone over email? I'm a little in the dark on this but would love to help out. I actually sent in some voice work to lucasfilm company in 2000, of course , I got no reply. But hey , that doesn't say anything!
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InfoDroid -- you'll have to start by telling me the reasons you hate that so much because you're blowing my mind!

I hate the Jar Jar antics in the battle, but the "War and Peace" epic sweep of it and the shot of the Gungans coming out of the mist and facing that giant droid army are some of my favorite things in the movie. That's the kind of "new world" thing I want out of each Star Wars movie. ANH had deserts and death stars, ESB had ice, swamps, and cloud city, ROTJ had Jabba's palace and the forest moon -- but TPM had no battles at all EXCEPT the Gungan battle. (Lucky for me, I thought it was awesome).

The strategy for fixing it, imo, comes down to eliminating Jar Jar and making it just a massacre. There's no reason to give the Gungans a moment of victory since the victory comes completely from Anakin. The Gungan's succeed as soon as they draw the Trade Federation attention away from the palace, so the best thing is to let the droids be awesome and devestating in every way. I think if we can do it right, it will feel like the Gungans are getting butchered out there. That's what I'd like.

Ideas?

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MTHaslett: I'm right there with you, I found the Gungan battle to be one of the great action plots of TPM. And like you said, making it a sad defeat for the gungans as the battle goes along can be acheived easily. First we could obviously replace the music with something that sounds a little more "hopeless" or "sad" as they are retreating , maybe some close up shots of the gungans hand to hand fighting. I even thought of the idea of making the scene darker as if they were dark looming clouds on the hills. However, you would have to change every exterior naboo scene to be dark and cloudy (which would be a good step towards a serious visual). Ok, that might be a stretch. Anyhow, I think the gungan battle is just as good of a subplot as the Han/rebel troops attacking the shield generator in ROTJ. And we all would like to be concentrating more on Luke/vader/emp , but it just felt more fun with the cuts between the two.

The underwater sequences: Again I really don't see what information is gained from any scenes the moment they dive underwater to the moment they come out on the other side. They dive to meet the gungans, get no help at all from the boss nass, decide to have a talk about keeping jar jar, qui gon takes jar jar, obi wan looks annoyed, they go through not one, not two, but THREE encounters with fish monsters of various sizes. And all the same time you have to make some sort of a decent conversation with obi wan and jar jar about why he was banished. Then we finally get to the surface, and in some edits we have a waterfall sequence.

That, to me, is just a waisted half hour of a star wars movie. It's like a comic book one-shot story. Qui and Obi's journey into the naboo sea! It just doesn't need to be there and i'll tell you why:
We can establish who jar jar is and what he is doing with his conversation with qui and obi when he runs into them in the forest. While he is chasing qui gon he could say

cut out "are you brainless"
Jar Jar: Are you a warrior? Are you on a journey? Let me come with you.
Qui Gon: you almost got (cut "us") killed.
Jar Jar: I know I need a little practice, but you could use my help...
Qui Gon : that won't be necessary
Jar Jar: Look, i'll do whatever you say .....
Qui Gon: GET DOWN!
jar jar jumps to the ground
quigon takes out the staps
jar jar getting up
Jar Jar: like I said i'll do whatever you say
Obi Wan: whats this?
Qui Gon : a local, now lets get out of here before more of those droids arrive.

Jar Jar: Hey! what are these droids here for anyway?
jar jar runs to catch up
Jar Jar: Look if there is going to be a fight, we need to go to the naboo city...
The two stop and look at each other
Qui-Gon: a city?
(close up of qui gon) Can you take us there?

then cut to the next scene

I know this may sound ebrupt, but if you cut to the assault on the naboo city it sure would be things in perspective as far as the time line goes.......I mean the Jedi spend ALOT of time lurking around in the water, and I don't see why the trade federation landed so damn far away. They jammed their frequencies anyway, this would make it appear that they landed on the outskirts, the jedi followed jar jar to the back door of the city, and the neimoidians are invading the city, then by the time the jedi appear the queen and her entrouge are being escorted to their selected executions. Wa-bam, that's a nice flow to me. The underwanter sequences are just pointless. We can be introduced to Boss and and whatever problems the gungans have in the meeting at the swamp before the battle. I'm gonig to take a gander and re-doing that scene in written form here soon. Comments?




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Let the Trade Federation Music Defenders start crying now.

The Trade Federation Theme is one of the best of the prequels and I'd hate to see it go. I do love the SotE soundtrack though and incorporating it into the films would be great. The pod race in particular, in the same way MagnoliaFan did in his edit. All of Joel McNeely's themes are excellent alternatives to whatever current music we may not be satisfied with. One of the "master lists" that's needed to be made is what music is going to be replaced, what's replacing it, and in what scenes.

Whelp, I'm off to finally see Narnia at the recommendation of Commander Courage. I'm hoping to see some good, usable Liam Neeson dialogue up there, CC!

You won't be dissapointed, in the film itself or the Neeson material.

I love these ideas -- except the underwater sequence has to stay, imo. The BOTF reworking of the Gungan story is a real improvement and the site of the Gungan city is very cool. I don't think we get SMOOTHER by cutting the city, just SHORTER. The smoothest story will allow Qui Gonn (and the audience) to size up the Gungans before we call on them to fight the war in the end.

Yes, your Gungan idea is a tempting one darthpreston, but in the end I think it's cutting too much, and ruins the dynamic between Jar-Jar, the Jedi, and the other Gungans for later in the film. The flow of the scenes as you outlined does indeed work, but I think if we're to reinvent the Gungans, we need that material to work with.

I'm all for getting officiall started, but how should we go about it? Go through every scene of the movie, discuss, decide, and so on? As for who'd be doing the actual editing, as I said before I have neither the resources nor the know-how. I hope to eventually though but for the purposes of this project I'm best left in my current role. Major props to InfoDroid stepping up to the plate and taking this on; I hope he doesn't mind doing it on his own for the most part, or someone else can come in and assist in the technical division of The Ranch.
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Just to pop in and say thanks for getting in the mood to start -- I'm thrilled!

I see that we have one editor -- unless Trooperman wants to volunteer for part of the story too.

I think we've kicked up the dust enough for the whole saga to get an official Episode I that fits-- but without a secret guiding force like Trooperman provides on SOTD, I'm afraid we may have to go through the whole movie by committee.

We should kick it off with an outline that incorporates all the current suggestions. Then we'll add in anything that gets left off/forgotten and debate anything that seems controversial. Then InfoDroid (or TradeFederationThemeHater, as he may now be called :-)) will have to be the final say-so on everything.

Whatever we can do to match SOTD and capture the epic sweep of the OT in music, pace, color, f/x should be spelled out so that InfoDroid can get "up to speed" with whatever techniques he'll need to learn.

...And I guess we're not doing the "LOTR" style montage at the beginning? I kind of vote against it for time reasons if nothing else -- and as such, I think we may need a title for this Episode I other than "Star Wars" to differentiate it from the official Trooperman Episode I that will come later with montage and the title Star Wars.

"Star Wars Episode I -- Fate of the Jedi"

Or...