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The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread — Page 10

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The Maul=grevious debate is an intersting one. And to be honest, I really wish it had turned out that way in the prequels and we would have had good material to deal with. But Grevious was written and portrayed as a cyborg alien that has been maimed, and put back together to serve the droid armies of the confederacy (in the movies, of course). So, I just don't see enough good moments or ideas to make it happen seamlessly. Take it like this, if you had seen TPM and then grevious/maul was in ROTS giving the scenes that we had, then you would have been dissapointed that they waisted away the maul/grevious character again. I mean, we don't have any good reactions shots with obi wan for any of the scenes that he has with the general. On the ship deck in the beginning ben is just smirking while waiting for his moment to get into action......and then later on utapau he doesn't have ANY reaction shot that would be along the lines of " wait a minutes, YOU are the sith that killed qui gon, and I thought I had killed as well?" We just have "hello there" and "your move". It would just be pointless to watch grevious reveal himself as "maul" and not really have a constructive moment out of it.

I had a crazy idea a while ago that could work. If you wanted to keep the "sypho dyas" mystery in Ep.2 , then you could just have "grevious" become a mysterious jedi trained evil general that will later in the movie (utapau) be revealed as Master Sypho Dyas........a jedi who did the sidious' bidding and ordered the clones creation to help with the phony war. The more I think about it, this could be possible , for establishing a real character out of the general for the 3rd movie. You could even have him give obi wan some hint of how "everything is going to end for the jedi" right before the general takes the blaster shots to the chest. This kind of mirrors Count Dooku's character, of course, but I don't see whats wrong in showing how seductive the darkside is and how evil it makes even ex-jedi with the amount of corruption. Ok, it's just an idea, and I think you guys were going to throw out the "sypho dias" reference. But last I heard it was just going to be replaced with sidious or something. Well, if anybody read this, what do you think? Not a good idea? I just wanted to throw out another option to reestablish the character. The maul=grevious thing is cool , I just don't think it will work at all....not like I don't trust you guys though. Prove me wrong! I love this board...
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Wow! There's a lot of activity going on in here today at The Ranch. That's good news! I can't believe we're already up to 12 pages on this thread! Thanks for all the comments, guys. Some really amazing ideas are flying around these pages.

Originally posted by: THX
Originally posted by: MTHaslett
This might work as long as we get an indication before Maul goes to Tatooine that Nute has an ace up his sleeve.

"Oh no!" says the flunky "Amidala's escaped!"

"No. She is never beyond my grasp."

"But if she should reach the Senate..."

"She will never see the Senate again."
Love this idea! Then Maul shows up in the landing scene, then reports back to Nute.

Ditto! This is a great idea, MTH! It tells the audience enough without so explicitly leading them from point A to point B.

Originally posted by DaystromX: A couple other ideas…
What if you reversed the scene where Amidala decides to go back to Naboo, and the scene where the Jedi are ordered to? This shouldn’t be too hard. Just cut Mace’s lines so they go like this (brackets indicate cut)…

Mace: Now is not the time for this. The Senate is voting on a new supreme chancellor [and Queen Amidala is returning home], which
could put pressure on the federation…
Ki: And draw out the queen’s attacker.
Mace: Go [with the queen] to Naboo and discover the identity of this dark
warrior. This is the clue we need to unravel the mystery of the Sith.

If you play this scene right, you could even make it look like the Jedi Council is sending Qui-Gon back to Naboo as punishment for disagreeing so publicly over Anakin, making Anakin feeling both guilty about Qui-Gon’s eventual death (gives “I don’t want to be a problem” a deeper meaning), as well as possible making him even more mad at the Jedi Council for their vindictiveness.

Yes! I always hated the way that scene was cut because Sam Jackson comes off with such a stilted delivery. Good suggestions. Great first post, DaystromX! Please continue to post.

Originally posted by Commander Courage: Another thought I had to spin things in a completely different direction: Is Anakin going to have a dream in Episode I? Putting together various pieces I constructed this scenario in my head:
-Activating the Podracer scene
-Misc. Trade Federation scene/perhaps contacting Grievous
-Grievous arriving on Tatooin scene
-CUT TO BLACK at conclusion (Even though it was just because of the test nature of the clip, I loved it)
-Anakin has a vision/dream
-Fade into Padme waking up Anakin.

This works on several levels. It cuts the now unecessary Qui-Gon/Anakin blood test scene, and has you assume he spent the night outside finishing up his pod. Anakin has a dream in the novelization in that exact spot as well, so taking a cue from that we could put together something similar to Trooperman's in SotDS. Some Padme material in the dream would make it an easy transition to her waking him up. I think the idea we were having in the SotDS thread was that Palpatine was in fact causing Anakin's dreams, so this may or may not work for a variety of reasons, but it's worth some discussion regardless.


Although I really like the blood-test scene and think it's actually one of the best scenes in the film, I really like this idea, and would like to try it. Perhaps some of the tone poem dialogue could be used.

Originally posted by Sluggo: Regarding the whole Maul/Greivous thing: What if Sidious viewed Maul as a failure after his supposed destruction on Naboo and dropped him as a Sith apprentice? Maul would undergo years of salvage work, and after a bit of bond-o, we are left with Greivous, a shell of what he used to be. Maybe the overall lack of a body would also account for him not being able to tap into the Force. That alone would result in being re-assigned by Sidious. This would be just a step beyond what Vandal just suggested.


I totally agree.

Originally posted by MTHaslett: I had ideas for restructuring the entire Coruscant sequence. This fits in well. There is too much ping-pong between Senate business and Jedi business in the courant sequence. It makes the action drag even more during an already slow sequence.


I've been meaning to talk to you more in-depth regarding your ideas for this portion of the film. I almost hate to cut out any part with Palpatine, since we've already cut Sidious... But I do agree that the whole Coruscant sequence brings the film to a near-screeching halt at a point where tension should be building toward the finale.

The other thing I really need to nail down with you is your ideas for getting Nute off of Naboo and onto his ship for the final battle.


--InfoDroid

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Just to clarify, these changes you have brought up, are these the only ones you are implamenting into TPM or is this just the begining?

like Tatooine, Jar Jar, Boss Nass or any other scenes/elements in TPM?
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To quote Count Dooku: "This is just the beginning!"

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Just the beginning -- we have about ten pages worth of ideas stuck in the "SOTD" thread waiting to be compiled over here. Jeebus help us!

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Here is something interesting

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/preq/tpmcont.html

"Considering the wealth of Naboo, and its relative proximity to the sector containing Tatooine, what stopped Queen Amidala from dispatching her agents to purchase the freedom of Anakin's mother? What does this tell us about the political and economic situations on Naboo and Tatooine? Was Shmi sought, but impossible to find? Did Watto's trouble with Gardulla the Hutt after the podrace [Qui-Gon Jinn one-shot comic] affect Shmi's fate and isolation from Anakin's allies?"

Never thought about that, but that is strange. Lol, do we try to fix this problem too?
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I don't think it's necessary to worry about EU continuity at all when re-editing the movies.

darthpreston, Sifo Dias = Grievous works better than Maul = Grievous to me.
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I can't keep up with you guys!

WOW. This is incredibly important stuff we're discussing here. What happens here will affect the entire saga, obviously. So before you make any monumental decisions, I'd like to post my take on the situation. As usual, I don't have time now; however, I can throw out a couple thoughts off the top of my head.

1. Whatever we do, I don't want it to be of a cut-and-paste nature; the ultimate goal is to make it seem as though it was always this way. It was released this way.

2. I agree that we need some kind of explanation for Maul=Grievous. It's just far too much of a stretch for me otherwise. I DO like the idea of Palpatine being able to bring people back from the dead as mechanical zombies; that's very intriguing. But someone made a VERY good point; the confrontation between Obi-Wan and Grievous is not at all appropriate for Obi-Wan facing the man that killed his master. He makes cocky, "funny" comments, like "hello there", "you're move", and "So uncivilized." Remember how furious he was in Episode I? I loved that, and we didn't get that rage or emotion in Episode III. Instead we got Obi-Wan riding around on a lizard and Grievous riding around in whatever that weird vehicle was. I don't know how to address this for my Ep. III.

3. I actually don't have a German copy of Episode I yet.

4. If I'm understanding correctly, there was an idea to turn Sidious in Episode I to Count Dooku? If so, that's a VERY interesting idea because all the mystery would be there and the scenes containing Sidious wouldn't have to be scrapped. We still want this movie to be feature length Also, it would make Dooku a permanent character throughout all three prequels, which is good. Episode I would be the set-up, and he would come out into the open in Episode II. And as it was brought up, it's a revelation to the audience when Dooku shows up at Sidious' place at the end of Episode II. Dooku isn't the head honcho. Of course, this would mean that Palpatine had trained two Sith at once....

Am I understanding this correctly?

5. I don't know about the dream for Anakin. It sounds good at first, but now I'm thinking it might take away from the surprise value of the one in Episode II. Is there any info the audience has to gain through a dream from the 9-year old Anakin?

6. I've had really bad luck downloading the new InfoDroid clips. RapidShare tells me I'm unauthorized, I have a bad password, or something like that. But I'd love to see them- is there another way to post?

7. As a closing note (for now), Episode I is the first film in the 6-movie saga. It should be filled with great, adventurous music, panoramic shots of the worlds, an attitude as though everything that happens is novel and has never been done before (like lightsabers, blasters, etc.) Unfortunately, the original movie has this feeling instead of Episode I (and understandably so).

More later! Thanks for reading,

-TM

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
1. Whatever we do, I don't want it to be of a cut-and-paste nature; the ultimate goal is to make it seem as though it was always this way. It was released this way.
I'm glad to hear you say this, TM. I think this is the most important point to remember.
2. I agree that we need some kind of explanation for Maul=Grievous. It's just far too much of a stretch for me otherwise. Someone made a VERY good point; the confrontation between Obi-Wan and Grievous is not at all appropriate for Obi-Wan facing the man that killed his master. He makes cocky, "funny" comments, like "hello there", "you're move", and "So uncivilized." Remember how furious he was in Episode I?
If this isn't addressed convincingly, I think Maul=Grievous would have to go.
3. I actually don't have a German copy of Episode I yet.

The German DVD can be got from amazon.de or ebay.de. Otherwise, you might be able to get a rip of the dialogue track from a German forum member (if there is one).
4. If I'm understanding correctly, there was an idea to turn Sidious in Episode I to Count Dooku? If so, that's a VERY interesting idea because all the mystery would be there and the scenes containing Sidious wouldn't have to be scrapped. We still want this movie to be feature length Also, it would make Dooku a permanent character throughout all three prequels, which is good. Episode I would be the set-up, and he would come out into the open in Episode II. And as it was brought up, it's a revelation to the audience when Dooku shows up at Sidious' place at the end of Episode II. Dooku isn't the head honcho. Of course, this would mean that Palpatine had trained two Sith at once.... Am I understanding this correctly?

This is an interesting idea - but it could weaken the plan to strengthen Nute Gunray.
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But someone made a VERY good point; the confrontation between Obi-Wan and Grievous is not at all appropriate for Obi-Wan facing the man that killed his master. He makes cocky, "funny" comments, like "hello there", "you're move", and "So uncivilized." Remember how furious he was in Episode I? I loved that, and we didn't get that rage or emotion in Episode III. Instead we got Obi-Wan riding around on a lizard and Grievous riding around in whatever that weird vehicle was. I don't know how to address this for my Ep. III.

On the surface I admit this seems like a problem. But with the proper edting I think all of this can be properly rectified. I can see why you'd point out Obi-Wan sarcastic attitude as being an inconsistency, but I don't think so. Remember, at this point he doesn't know Grievous is the Sith from Episode I. Through dialogue that can be revealed, at which point Obi-Wan get's really angry: There is one particular shot of him gritting his teeth in a saber lock with Grievous. If it's possible to extend the actual lightsaber portion of the confrontation utilizing the fullscreen DVD for alterate framings of shots and even reversing and repeating some shots, I think that's a must. The extreme close ups of their eyes would be the ideal place for the identity reveal, cutting one of the two Obi-Wan "I can't be"s from the security recording scene and reinserting it here. Then the "angry" shot, force push, Grievous makes a run for it, with Obi-Wan in hot pursuit. I can do with or without the "So uncivilized" line, with possibly another line from Obi-Wan as he looks down on Grievous' smoldering body. So those are my rough ideas on how to address this issue.
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Excellent ideas CC-- I would like to see the "so uncivilized" line go whatever the case. It is a reference to a line in the NEXT movie -- and that's how it comes off. Like Arnold saying "I'll be back" in T2 or something.

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I forgot who thought of the idea, but trooperman reminded me about this:

Count Dooku/Tyranus as the dark cloaked figure in Episode 1:

I think you guys (InfoDroid, CC, MTHaslett) should think about this just for minute. For some reason this sounds like it has amazing potential in fleshing out the character of Count Dooku in a way no one could believe. You have plenty of evil dialoug to choose from in the LOTR movies, and several others with christopher lee. Considering you are changing the voice of the nemoidians this could open up an ENTIRELY written scene between the dark lord and the aliens. YOu could have whatever conversation you could concoct(sp?) together. All you would need to do is blacken over the face of the cloak and have him be entirely mysterious, but with the voice of christopher lee. If you tuned his voice down lower, with gargled transmission sound this could be pulled off easily.

Some would say, well that ruins the mystery of who count dooku is in ep.2............well no more than hearing ANY moment with darth sidious and realizing that he sounds like senator palpatine. But like Trooperman said, this would make Dooku far more interesting/important in his role with the sith, it makes Palpatines involvment at the end of Ep.2 as the emperor-like darth sidious more intruiging. I just wanted to see you guys comment on this issue........I think its an extrordinary idea. Just take a gander......



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I don't understand the "Dukoo replaces Sidious" idea. What is Dukoo doing? Everything that Sidious WAS doing? (i.e. bossing the Nemoidians around?)

If that's the case, then it is just swapping one giant problem for another. The problem with Episode I is that it drags on and on, doesn't have a solid story, doesn't answer most of the questions it sets up, and works better as "Episode IV" (which is what it really was) than "Episode I".

The SIMPLER we make it, the better.

No Sidious

That's the idea that made me realize Episode I could be saved. No Sidious makes Nute Gunray the "Governor Tarkin" of Episode I. He has a goal -- conquer Amidala. He pursues it and the Jedi oppose him. Their efforts take them through Tatooine, over to Coruscant and back to Naboo. All they want to do is defeat the Trade Federation -- and they hit a lot of opposition, from a droid army, a sith Lord, a beuraucratic senate, a disapproving Jedi council, even an angry bunch of Gungans. But keeping the goal of the story clearly locked between Nute and Amidala gives this movie the potential to have a STORY.

Adding Sidious, Dukoo, General Jar Jar, an unrelated Anakin subplot that never reconnects, a "hunt down the Vergence" agenda, or anything else that cannot be sewn up by the end of this movie will leave us right where GL was -- with mushy structure that does not hold up on repeated viewings.

But if we keep the plot located around the Nute/Amidala conflict, and keep the emotion located around the Qui Gonn/Anakin relationship -- and give both conclusive pay-offs -- then we'll actually have a story.

So I'm agin anything complicated. Dukoo could indeed use some set-up, but TM is handling that over in SOTD and I'm for sacrificing Dukoo material in the interest of better structure in Episode I.

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5. I don't know about the dream for Anakin. It sounds good at first, but now I'm thinking it might take away from the surprise value of the one in Episode II. Is there any info the audience has to gain through a dream from the 9-year old Anakin?

***

I understand this concern, TM. I agree that the dreams in Episode II have to have impact -- but I don't think that can actually be taken away. The SOTD dreams do the impossible job of letting us into Hayden Christiansen's character/performance because they tell us why he's so antsy and abrasive. No matter what happens in Episode I, those dreams in SOTD are essential. Without them, well, you get AOTC -- in other words you get locked out of Anakin, wondering why he's such a jerk.

I wonder if a dream in Episode I can do the same thing for us regarding a second bad performance. It's hard to understand this boy Anakin -- but a dream would help.

In that light, I have to lean TOWARD including a dream -- with the understanding that it should probably be brief and pale in comparison to what we get in Episode II. That way, the more grown up Anakin's dreams can still have special impact.

One positive thing about this is that the "dreams" could become part of the continuity of the character. They can be one thing that makes us feel that Hayden Christiansen is indeed a grown up Jake Lloyd.

It will come down to what the dream is and how essential it feels to the story of Episode I. If it can do the job of setting up Anakin for the important change he goes through in the climax, then it will be essential. If not, then it's much more expendable.

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That was my "idea," but again it was more of a fun experiment then an actual suggestion. I admit it is an intriguing propsoal, but regardless of whatever role Dooku would play in Episode I, wouldn't it undermine all the reasons for removing Sidious except for the rather obvious Sidious=Palpatine connection. So although Dooku in Episode I via an obscured Sidious hologram and LotR dialogue was in fact my idea, but as for fitting it into the story, I really have no plan to speak of. I would encourage my esteemed colleagues to try and devise one though if the concept is of interest to them.

Now, in one of the few mentions of ESB in the thread, I once again turn your attention to sepharih of the Jedi Council Discussion Boards. I thought it would be best to explain the folllowing clip in the words of the editor himself:

First I would like to give Neo_MP5 credit for his help in this. A week or so ago he gave me a couple of clips to showcase his adding of Duel of the Fates to Luke and Vader's duel on Bespin in ESB. The clip i'm about to show you is from the very last part of the duel during the "big Reveal" scene.
One of the best things Neo_MP5 did in his edit, which I hope he will showcase here when he's finished with it, is that he didn't just layer Duel of the fates over the entire fight, but instead restricted it to a very subtle motif that would occasionally play during key moments, whilst restricted the majority of the added music to a darker more ominous track.
During the last part of the fight, however, duel of the fates spins out in all it's glory and the effect is very impresive.
The begining of my clip is structured exactly like his is, and it only variats after vader knocks luke down on the catwalk. I was personally slightly dissatisfied with how the music was cut after that point and so I decided to do my own variant of it. I PM'd Neo_Mp5 with my version a day or so ago but I haven't heard back from him yet, So I decided to just go ahead and post it here.
Also, it changes one more thing. Originally when Vader revealed his identity to luke it was, of course, designed to be a huge twist. It was as much a revelation for Luke as it was for the audience, but now when watching them 1-6, everyone knows that it's coming.
So I started thinking about it, and I eventually decided to see what it would look like if the twist factor was removed completely, giving it a track that was remniscent of Anakin as well as building up to what was about to happen. Now, I have added instead a track from Episode 3, and the scene now is no longer designed huge shocker, but rather an emotionally climactic moment between Luke and Vader. I'm not sure what the reaction too it will be, but I know that this is going on my personal cut of the trilogy.

The clip: http://rapidshare.de/files/8835399/ESBREVEAL.mov.html

I think there is some definite potential in a musical alteration along these lines, particularly in the "I am your father" portion. Of course I had that music in mind for Obi-Wan's death, but I'm sure we can come to a reasonable compromise through discussion. Duel of the Fates matches up surprisingly well too, but I doubt many here will be fans of that change.
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I like it but does it make sense?

One comment, alot of the booms and high jolts in the music happen when Luke is talking so the music actually intereferd with the dialogue.
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Random thoughts:

A way to improve the intro of JarJar occured to me:

Qui Gonn is seen running from the droid transports when suddenly, there's a Gungan in the way. "Get out of the way!" he yells ineffectually and they comically "trip" over each other.

That does two things wrong: first off, it lets Jar Jar into the movie (a mistake we cannot correct) AND it makes Qui Gonn look dumb. Why doesn't he Force push that goofball out of the way or do something cool like that?

What we can do is cut out the shot of Liam Neeson gesturing ineffectually and whining "out of the way! I'm a Jedi running for my miserable life and you're in my way!"

More heroic would be to have Qui Gonn simply running -- seeing Jar Jar in the way, too terrified to run -- and tackling Jar Jar as a way of saving Jar Jar's life. He tackles Jar Jar on purpose, (as Jedi should do everything). He sees the way to save the poor CGI creature and does what he must. No flailing and whining.

This straightens out this odd beat and strengthens the sense of debt that Jar Jar feels for Qui Gonn.

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
I've had really bad luck downloading the new InfoDroid clips. RapidShare tells me I'm unauthorized, I have a bad password, or something like that. But I'd love to see them- is there another way to post?


Are you putting in the three-letter code at the bottom of the page? Right next to where it says download, there's a code you have to type in.

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Jeez, Jar jar...that is a whole other interesting bucket of conversation. I say he definately needs a lower pitched voice. Were we thinking of re-dubbing his whole character or "alien-izing" his voice? I think if someone with an intersting character voice did it in english and modulated it a bit to make him sound more odd or alien like. I think jar jar could be turned into a character that is brave but is "clumsy" by never getting anything right......clearly we can't really edit the fact that everyone does give him annoying faces frequently (or can we?). He could be shown , quite easily , as a character which starts off on the wrong foot in life and the occasion of the battle for naboo gives him redemption to his friends and his race.

There are some good shots of Cpt. Tarpulus and Jar jar that could be expanded upon. Especially before the battle, you could make a nice bonding moment where jar jar can say that he is proud to fight and possibly die for his people......then tarpalus can show equal gratitude in respect. Then there is the issue of cutting out all foul ups during the battle and portraying jar jar as a gungun warrior in the face of danger.

Perhaps you can give him a personality of someone who is outcast from society BUT ALSO is longing for adventure and travel. Have him bug the jedi at the beginning that he wants to follow them and possibly leave the planet. He wants to see what the universe looks like.....then of course with all the mess on tatooine, coruscant and space battles would make jar jar realize how much he liked being home with his people. I guess this would accomplished, as usual, by proper dialouge, voice over and editting to match the reactions of the human actors.

This could make the viewer sympathize with the creature, as this is suppose to be the FIRST introduction to the star wars unvierse....the audience WILL be jar jar: wanting to go through the adventure , not knowing what the universe looks like, not knowing all the details of the plot. Although I am wondering what trooperman is doing with jar jar for his ep.2 edit. Just a though.

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My thoughts on the emotional spine of Episode I are coming into focus.

This is the story of Qui Gonn searching for a way to shake up and wake up the Jedi Council.

He begins the story running a stupid errand for the Council -- but he knows in his heart that the council has grown too beuraucratic and blind. He knows a tough time lies ahead for them, although it isn't quite clear what the threat is. He has been a thorn in the council's side for a while, not entirely sure what he's waiting for. This errand would seem unrelated to his feelings -- but it turns out to be the call of Destiny...

The errand turns into something of an adventure -- he ends up hiding out on Tatooine when he comes across a strange boy. The boy offers to pod-race to save Qui Gonn -- and Qui Gonn's interest is piqued. He goes for it (but he does NOT declare to Shmi that the boy is a potential Jedi. We'll use some of this scene later, but not where it is). Qui Gonn has more than one reason to let the pod-race happen: one is to get the parts from Watto, but the other is to see the boy in Action -- it's during the race that we insert close-ups to show how Qui Gonn is feeling more and more convinced: this boy could be the godda*ned CHOSEN ONE! It's only then that his faith in the boy is made certain. Until then, he's more "wait and see" (which would be set perfect if we could somehow move his "purchase" of the boy until during the race or after -- maybe we don't know he bargained for the boy until he goes to collect after the race?)

Anyway, he gets the boy free and tells the mom (this is where we use some of the "Your son is special" exterior scene from earlier -- it extends the pitifully short farewell material that's there now). They run from Tatooine to Coruscant and meet the council. But the blind council ignores all Qui Gonn's ideas and sends him back to Naboo (as suggested up thread -- this happens BEFORE Amidala makes the same decision and comes more from the Council's ignorance and spite than concern for Amidala).

Preparing for the battle of Naboo, Qui Gonn feels stifled -- the Queen's plan is too optimistic and stands little chance. He feels he must do as ordered, but that this is probably where he will die and the Chosen One will go lost --

Then Anakin goes into battle. Qui Gonn hadn't asked for this, but he senses it. He uses the force to reach out and help Anakin into the scary battle... they share a connection that allows him to fight (in a way) on two fronts at the same time...

But then he gets KILLED. Anakin feels it. Qui Gonn tries to stay in control of Anakin, but Anakin makes a bold move on his own and shoots the ship from the inside! But it works! Anakin flies out.

Obi Wan kills Maul/Grievous, then hears Qui Gonn tell him "the boy is the chosen one." Then cut to Anakin flying home with a final farewell kind of tone-poem in his head as Qui Gon passes. Anakin looks very hurt.

Yoda admits that Qui Gonn has convinced them to train the boy and the movie ends with Anakin's p.o.v. emphasised at every opportunity.

I don't know if we need Anakin's dream or not. But this "Qui Gonn finds and trains Anakin" story is the heart of the movie and everything else has to be peeled back and carved out of the way to allow this to happen.

The "mind" of the movie is still the "Nute Gunray tries to conquer Queen Amidala" story. These two threads combined will give the movie one complete STORY as opposed to the mish-mash that's there now.

Can the "council" consider and comment? I think we need this kind of "spine" settled to help us make other decisions and to know where we're headed.

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Darthpreston: This could make the viewer sympathize with the creature, as this is suppose to be the FIRST introduction to the star wars unvierse....the audience WILL be jar jar: wanting to go through the adventure , not knowing what the universe looks like, not knowing all the details of the plot. Although I am wondering what trooperman is doing with jar jar for his ep.2 edit. Just a though.

***

I don't think the audience is Jar Jar -- he' s not really the main character and he's even less available for that role in the MagFan edits.

I like your suggestions, but I also like the MagFan solutions. I vote for alien voices and for a total overhaul of the final battle where only the scary and cool shots are kept and the goofy/funny ones are dropped. With the Amidala plan being overhauled, there's less reason to allow any of it to succeed. I think the Jar Jar beats on Naboo are there to cover the lack of anything strong happening between Anakin/Qui Gonn.

Qui Gonn is the Main Character and it's his p.o.v. that we take as an audience -- feeling his interest in Anakin, feeling his frustration with Jar Jar, etc. It's his story and that's something Lucas didn't bother to follow through on.

This edit will be the first, as far as I know, to try to take advantage of this problem and turn it into an opportunity.

Episode I is the story of Qui Gonn.

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Sounds good to me. Simplicity is indeed the key and I think all your suggestions work well together.

On the subject of Jar Jar, as TM is dubbing Anakin for II, it seems the appropriate action would be to dub Jar Jar throughout. More work, yes, but ultimately who could be satisfied with his current voice/dialogue? MagFan had great results changing his dialogue, and subtitles would be the other option.
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Yeah, I agree about the jar jar thing........after reading that synoposis of the story of Qui Gon and his importance to the movie.....your're right, Qui Gon should be the character that the audience should connect to the most. I think even the shots at the very beginning with him and obi wan are standing on the ship.....perhaps there should be more closeup shots of just qui-gons face and his "i'm bored, frustrated and confused" look on his face......which is how the audience will feel in this strange sitiuation. Brilliant! I love it, and that is exactly what I wanted from TPM when it came out, I was dissapointed that there wasn't a "connection" with anakin and quigon hardly at all. But the editting will cure this up.

An idea I had for quigons death scene:

-Darth Maul spins and makes the stab to his chest
-obi-wan screams NOO
-through obi wans "NOO" cut to scene of ankin in the space battle (there's a shot in the original where he makes a real mouth-opened , wide-eyed look as some fighters are coming at him). Take this shot and slow it down while playing the slow version of "the force" theme. Similar to the one during the lars' death scene in ANH.
-then cut to close up shot of quigon still standing in pain
-cut to shot of darth maul pulling out saber and spinning to face obi wan
-shot of obi wan staring with teeth gritting
-cut to shot of darth maul hitting the energy field with his lightsabre (take from earlier reference, works more violently in this situation to me)
- shot of obi wan looking at qui gon
- shot of darth maul pacing and smirking at obi wan


If your re-dubbing darth maul or grevious or whatever he'll be, then you could possibly add in some lines towards obi wan. I can't think of anything genius right now, but the potential is there.
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Episode I is the story of Qui Gonn.
Sounds great to me. Qui-Gon is my favorite character, so I'm all for that. Allow me to reiterate in "The Chronicles of Narnia," there is some great Neeson dialogue that is ripe for Star Wars fan edit usage. When you see the film you'll know what I mean.

Tying together the Qui-Gon focus and a possible Anakin dream, it has become obvious to me what Anakin's dream should be about. In Episode II he has a dream early in the film about his mother dying. She dies. In Episode III he has a dream early in the film about Padme dying. She dies. I'm sure you can follow my logic from here. For now this isn't too specific, so if any of you like the idea of Anakin dreaming of Qui-Gon's death and and want to run with it, feel free to do so. Idealy it would end with Padme somehow to transition into her waking him up.

Darthpreston's character of Jar-Jar seems like a reasonable way to go. The Han Solo-esque Binks of "Balance of the Force" is always an option as well. Any definite thoughts n this? We're going to have to pin him down at some point. For the record I'm all for an alien language with subtitles.

If your re-dubbing darth maul or grevious or whatever he'll be, then you could possibly add in some lines towards obi wan. I can't think of anything genius right now, but the potential is there.

Exactly. Since we're cutting all of Maul's speaking scenes anyway, and dubbing over Grievous, we're free to insert dialogue wherever we want (so long as it blends in with the scene as if it had always been there). It's unfortunate we have to lose his original voice though; can anyone do a comparable impression? Btw, I like your outline of Qui-Gon's death scene, but I don't see why we need another shot of him stabbing at the forcefield with his lightsaber.
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But at the core, whats the significance/reason to make the connection between Maul and Grevious?