Vladius said:
However the structural stuff of the Jedi, as far as masters with multiple apprentices, decentralization, Jedi with lovers, families, and children, a lack of a standard uniform, etc. are all consistent with how the Jedi were portrayed in everything else (mainly post-ROTJ material because that was what we had) up until the prequels came out. After that, KOTOR retconned the 4000 BBY time period as way more pared down and similar to the movies in terms of portrayal and visual design.Right, all I’m saying is that some of the the current direction has been reconciling, at the very least making room for, TOTJ-like Jedi as historical.
Jedi Survivor’s whole High Republic subplot has a lot of the same elements, for example. Dagan Gera and Santari Khri’s outfits are not standardized, they have autonomy to explore, build, and recruit throughout the galaxy for their own project (Tanalorr) that is largely unencumbered by oversight. The High Republic Jedi are also generally much less strict on attachments, to the point that romance and basically-marriages are common.
I think a lot of it gets hamstrung by its proximity to, and the desire to “explain”, the prequels (see: The Acolyte) - but The High Republic gets as close to the old understanding of the Jedi as it can before being obligated to fit into and set up the prequels’ state of play.
Ultimately doesn’t mean anything, but the fundamentalism of the prequel Jedi has been retconned into a particular period.
I’m not saying you CAN’T reduce it to just one time period of history, I’m saying you SHOULDN’T because it’s very limiting in terms of stories you can tell. I know you know this already, but it’s an out of universe change which is why we emphasize pre-1999 (real life) not pre-4000 BBY or pre-1000 BBY or something.
Sure. I don’t disagree. Obviously I’ve expressed liking what emerges from the prequels, but I think it does have its limits. At the very least, a bunch of things to write around. I’ve hit diminishing returns on it after Acolyte, for sure.
I don’t know what you’re talking about with the bureaucrat thing.
Granted, it’s like right up to the 1999 line (late '98), but - Redemption. Nomi’s administrative obligations [as a Republic representative] to the conclave rebuilding the Order basically pre-creates Andor’s whole Mon and Leida Mothma bit between her and Vima, (which pushes Vima to seek out Ulic). Nomi, Tott, and Sylvar get into political squabbling about whether Ulic should be tried for his war crimes. They have diplomatic roles on Ryloth and Cathar.
It feels closer to the roles of the prequel Jedi (more than the Dudes Rock™ of the Qel-Droma boys in the preceding titles), even if it’s all predicated on Jedi having children or being widowers.
It was retconned into a particular period the moment the prequels came out. That isn’t a new development and it’s not something I’ll give Disney credit for, assuming I thought it was a positive thing.
Reading through it again, that section literally proves all my points. They say that they haven’t had a conclave in over a decade, and the whole fact that they have to call conclaves together in the first place just shows how decentralized they are. All the conflict is coming from interpersonal, personal, romantic, and family drama and each character expresses their personality, opinions, and ideas very differently. The “diplomatic roles” are for their own native planets, not assignments to another part of the galaxy from a centralized authority. Also Jedi were always diplomats and people that resolved disputes as individuals. (When C’baoth is trying to get Luke on his side in the Thrawn books, he sets up a perverse version of it to demonstrate Jedi superiority to him.) That isn’t “political squabbling,” it’s a legitimate difference in opinion on what to do about Ulic, which is both an important topic on the galactic scale and something that affects them very personally.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. You can have a story like that with personal stakes because the characters have personal stakes in each other, including romantic and family ties. None of them are anything close to “bureaucrats” except for Nomi having to do the paperwork to set up the convocation.