logo Sign In

If the Prequels had been made first would they have succeeded?

Author
Date
Author
Time
Post link
I honestly don't think they would have made even half of what they did had the prequels been made first. Obviously the fans who saw the prequels first would disagree with this, however, however I wonder how many of these new fans would have discovered the prequels without the monsterous ad campaign that could not have existed without the success of the original trilogy.

Basically, I don't think George would have gotten away with making a film like Phantom Menace if it had been the first SW film. Imagine also, if he had made Menace back in 1977 with the same script, a different cast and 1977 effects. I think it would have been the turkey many predicted Star Wars (A New Hope) would be. Could you imagine going into the theatre in 1977 and having a dude in a Jar Jar costume, no pod race, a less impressive lightsaber fight and a very complicated plot dealing with trade disputes, senate meetings and midichlorians?

It's just kind of ironic that many prequel fans not only dislike the OT, but seem to have no respect for the films, especially for the original SW which they find boring, slow and old looking. I wonder how many of them realize that without the OT, the prequels never ever would have been made.
George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."
Author
Time
Post link
Could you imagine going into the theatre in 1977 and having a dude in a Jar Jar costume, no pod race, a less impressive lightsaber fight and a very complicated plot dealing with trade disputes, senate meetings and midichlorians?


In a word, no! IMHO it just would wouldn't have worked, and I also agree with you that the only reason that the prequels have done as well at the box office as they have is because of the marketing campaign based on the success of the OT. I was born in 1984 and certainly don't consider myself to be old (unlike some of you ), I always ask myself whether there really is that much difference between someone of my age who appreciates the OT and those of a younger age who prefer the PT, it seems to be a very fine line.
Author
Time
Post link
That's the exact reason why he didn't make the PT first, because of the lack of effects. And, I have no clue if the PT would have been successful had it been released first. There are too many things to take into consideration.
Author
Time
Post link
That is not the reason he didn't make the PT first!!! I thought that rumor had been squelched years ago! He didn't make the PT first because that wasn't the story he was trying to tell. His story was about Luke and the Rebel Alliance versus Darth Vader and the Galactic Empire, and what became the PT was simply the backstory that he as a writer needed.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
I take the prequels for what they are: prequels. Their political films for the most part, basically a well-expanded movie trilogy of the 'prologue' from the ANH novelization.

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

Author
Time
Post link
What's wrong with political films? To me, that gives Star Wars even more depth.
Author
Time
Post link
I don't think Hal said there was anything wrong with them being political. He simply said they were. Don't go looking for controversy where there's none to be found.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
His story was about Luke and the Rebel Alliance versus Darth Vader and the Galactic Empire, and what became the PT was simply the backstory that he as a writer needed.


Therein lies the problem, for me the struggle between Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader has always been at the centre of the Star Wars universe, as interesting as some fans may find the back-story, to me the PT is just a series of spin-offs that with a little creativity (I use the term loosely) could be turned into a Sci-Fi trilogy completely seperate from the Star Wars universe.

Author
Time
Post link
The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that he made it up as he went along. Kinda like the Walchowski brothers and the matrix mess. Adam, you need to really think about what you are saying. I've found that most of your statements hang on the idea that Lucas knew what he was doing, and that anything he does and says it gospel when it comes to how things wnet down. The man is human and he is prone to lying just as much as you are. Trust me, He's lied to the world, even to his friends about this story for years. He never had what you would call a real backstory when he made the original star wars. He didn't write any of that until after it did really well in the box office. Once he saw that, he thought "well I can say there is moer to the story and make more movies". Then he wrote the backstory based on the previous scripts that he tried to hammer out before 1977. Once the backstory was laid, then he wrote the story outlines for ESB and Jedi.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Switch Radic
Then he wrote the backstory based on the previous scripts that he tried to hammer out before 1977.


It shows!

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Switch Radic
The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that he made it up as he went along. Kinda like the Walchowski brothers and the matrix mess. Adam, you need to really think about what you are saying. I've found that most of your statements hang on the idea that Lucas knew what he was doing, and that anything he does and says it gospel when it comes to how things wnet down. The man is human and he is prone to lying just as much as you are. Trust me, He's lied to the world, even to his friends about this story for years. He never had what you would call a real backstory when he made the original star wars. He didn't write any of that until after it did really well in the box office. Once he saw that, he thought "well I can say there is moer to the story and make more movies". Then he wrote the backstory based on the previous scripts that he tried to hammer out before 1977. Once the backstory was laid, then he wrote the story outlines for ESB and Jedi.


Um, all writers have to write a backstory in order to figure out where their characters will end up. Lying or not, he had to have written a backstory in oirder to organize things so well.
Author
Time
Post link
i dont think he wrote a backstory other than what was said by ben to luke in ANH
Author
Time
Post link
Lucas always implys that he had the backstory developed to the OT.

I'll put it this way, it always comes off like a grandfather exaggerating about walking ten miles to school every day and walking uphill both ways.

I have no doubt some ideas/characters he had written early on where used for the prequels, but the vast majority of the material he created for the PT screenplays came from doing it as he went along, and trying to fit things together between the two trilogies, I know some old cenceptual McQuarrie artwork was used in ROTS (Vader on Mustafar). but IMO he no more had the prequel backstory already planned out during the OT than most of us did.

Honestly, I wish the prequels would have been made a few years after ROTJ, I think CG dummed down the prequels to the point where the actors and depth of the character driven story almost seemed like it wasn't as important as before, Yoda and the Emperor were far more interesting when they wern't doing flips and wielding lightsabers, i'll take a puppet Yoda or Jabba to a CG version, and a Stormtrooper over a Battle Droid any day...It seems Lucas was far more inventive when he was more limited effects wise.





Author
Time
Post link
Only Lucas himself will ever know the truth. All we can do is guess.
Author
Time
Post link
I think there's a great urban myth built up around the backstory and Lucas' original 'master plan' of having everything planned out when he wrote the original trilogy. A great deal of it seems to be fan exageration, and its very rare to come across anything firsthand from the man himself.

However, in 1999, when phantom menace was came out, there was a very enlightening Lucas interview on the UK morning show 'Big Breakfast', where he spells out the extent of his original plans for the movies. Despite, or maybe because of Johnny Vaughn, its one of Lucas' more interesting interviews.

I've uploaded the most relevant bit here: http://rapidshare.de/files/8285059/lucasBB.mpg.html

Fried Gold.
Author
Time
Post link
When adjusted for inflation we clearly see that the prequels have, in fact, NOT been as successful as the OT. Furthermore, after Episode I, which burned many lifelong fans, we see a plummet in the box office.

It is also interesting to note that ESB, which LFL has actually slighted for having the lowest box office returns, is actually second-highest when adjusted for inflation, after the juggernaut of ANH.

It is extremely important to recognize the box office haul in terms of its period in history. What happened in 1977 was extraordinary, and if Gone With The Wind didn't have a 38-year head start in an age where theatrical re-releases were common, I daresay that Star Wars would have actually eclipsed it.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
Author
Time
Post link
I have also come to suspect that the reason why GL doesn't pay any attention to the O-OT anymore is because his wife at the time had a hand in editing it. She was the one who said that the Jabba scene was redundant in the first place. His real motive for some of the changes to ANH may have been driven out of this fact. She really must have hurt him alot after ROTJ.

Adam, I never said he didn't have a backstory for ANH, I said he wrote THE backstory after the first movie was sucessful. The backstory that he actually had for ANH was slighlty different than the one he had after the movie came out. Besides, what can you really contribute to this? you haven't even seen the O-OT pre- '97. You have no real frame of reference for this discussion.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
Author
Time
Post link
It would have worked marvelously. GL knows that fx don't make the movie and would have started at 1 if he was interested in doing so, but the easiest story to make for the budget he was given was #4. That's what I've been led to believe anyway.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
Author
Time
Post link
My impression was that Lucas had this big story (draft), he took what he thought was the core (most interesting) parts of the material, and started from there, initially, ANH never had the episode 4 in the crawl, after SW started becoming a hit, and since some plot and character issues were skipped over, he thought it opened the possibility of doing more sequels and possibly going back and doing some of the backstory, so leaving room for future possibilities, and adding an interesting touch he placed the label of Episode 4 on ANH and made the bulk of the material into what he thought would be the middle three movies which is the OT. I read the Journal of Whills awhile back, The "backstory" and what we see in the PT is extremely scarce and scattered throught the story, I see some character names / Planets and some familiar ideas, but nothing that really resembles the PT even as far back as 73.

For those who haven't seen early drafts before ANH look here:

Early SW Scripts
Author
Time
Post link
Um, all writers have to write a backstory in order to figure out where their characters will end up. Lying or not, he had to have written a backstory in oirder to organize things so well.


Bullshit. Tolkien literally made up "Lord of the Rings" as he went along, with only "The Hobbit" as backstory, which he wrote and published before that anyway. He made up "The Hobbit" as he went along too.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

Author
Time
Post link
But, as you said, he wrote The Hobbitt before he wrote Lord of the Rings. Proves my point.
Author
Time
Post link
But "The Hobbit" was written first, unlike the PT. Bollocks to your point.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

Author
Time
Post link
it's funny that a bunch of us are trying to get the point acrossed to a 16 year old. In my experience, most sixteen year olds think they know everything and don't want to listen anyway. I do think that the kid needs to actually watch the O-OT before forming opinions though. That and read a couple of good books. Adam, I am sure that many of the classical writers didn't actually write a back story before they wrote the books they did. I get the impression that they wanted to allow the characters and the story to take them to unexpected places as they wrote. Take Treasure Island for example, Stevenson seems to just write and allow things to flow freely in that story. Same with Count of Monte Cristo. I could be wrong though haven't looked into it to know for sure.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
Author
Time
Post link
Hey, Switch, I'm sixteen too, and I'm trying just as hard as you are to get the point across.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg