Yeah, I've been struck by ideas for Episode I ever since hearing the idea of cutting Sidious. I ain't consciously trying to make it as much like ANH as possible, but I think you're right -- that's what I seem to be doing. It really comes down to trying to make the movie a stand-alone story. As much as possible. I think that's what the first Episode should do. I am totally into discussing this stuff to get the best movie possible. I am guided most by the power and emotion I got from the Phantom Menace marketing-- that stuff had exactly the right "Every Saga Has a Beginning" tone-- but the movie fell short.
I suggest the biggest ways the movie falls short (among a crowd of "ways") is in the end. Disarming the Trade Federation means nothing when you know Sidious is the real boss; The characters who carry out the final battles suffer various problems (Jar Jar stinks, Padme is stiff and unconvincing, and Anakin wins by accident). But the biggest structural let-down is that there's nothing going on character-wise. No one is in danger of growing, experiencing change, or being faced with a leap-of-faith decision.
The most obvious center of interest is Anakin, the central figure of the entire Saga. The final battle in Episode I, I submit, has to affect him personally.
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
I respectfully disagree about the goodbye -- just like Infodroid, I find it stiff and forced when it should be soft and poetic -- something the tone poem accomplished. With Anakin's ability to speak without words, this tone poem could actually play in the movie and do double duty to establish the mental link with Shmi that plays such a huge role in Episode II. Maybe not the whole dang poem, but a couple key lines and smoother editing and the scene would play WAY better to me.
Nice! Anyway, I hope my criticism has been constructive, and I of course look forward to further discussion on this matter.
I think many of your other suggestions are overdoing it a bit. I had no intention of delving into this at this time, but I can't help myself, let us discuss:
It sounds like we "disagree" on just a few points, so let's discuss those--
I might agree with you if the entire Coruscant sequence didn't bring all momentum to a halt. Exposition by the truckload is covered, but dramatically the only accomplishment is that Amidala decides to go back to Naboo. The staggering of Senate stuff/Council stuff/Senate stuff/Council stuff slows everything even more and interrupts a couple of nice character arcs-- Padme's realization that the Senate can't help is nice, but I urge you to imagine a version of the movie where the same insights come faster and get us back into the meat of the story faster-- and the Jedi Council stuff is repetitive and underwhelming in a couple ways because attention is split between Qui-Gon's frustrations and Anakin's growing awe/unease. I would recut to emphasize Anakin's p.o.v. by reducing Obi-Wan's role -- honing things down to Qui Gon/Anakin.
Qui-Gon's [tone poem] will work because of his voiceover nature at that point. The rest, not so much. And I thought Anakin's goodbye to his mother was excellent.
It sounds like we "disagree" on just a few points, so let's discuss those--
No need for them to die, as InfoDroid points out, Darth Vader survived ANH after all. Since Nute is being made into a more formidable adversary why kill him off in 1 when he is in 2 and 3 already anyway? The notion of "Carl" is amusing but would create more problems than it would solve.
Having Nute escape could drain a lot of power out of the end if it isn't done right. Vader may have escaped in ANH, but Tarkin did not. Nute is the big cheese, not the henchman. If he escapes, then even less is accomplished than in the original cut where he is at least captured. If he can escape in utter defeat somehow, that might work, but the emphasis has to be on his defeat, not his escape. I know blowing him up will FEEL the best. The joke of "Carl" is undermining a logical solution-- there is nothing special about Nute other than his position atop the Trade Federation. Having a replacement character whose characterization is submissive and weak, like the current Nute, solves everything while creating only the problem of covering his "introduction." Once it's established that the new submissive "Viceroy Gunray" is there to replace the blood thirsty bastard who died in Episode I, everything else stays the same.
If you're right, which I'm not sure you are because I think it's clear enough in the visuals, then this little bit of dialogue could be done in the telepathic way of their first meeting and mean a lot more. This scene has good visuals, but awful dialogue. If this were a second instance of Anakin speaking without words, it would reinforce a special connection between Anakin and Padme -- a good thing.
-The rest of your editing suggestions on Coruscant I disagree with, as I think they are fine as they are in the movie.
Having Nute escape could drain a lot of power out of the end if it isn't done right. Vader may have escaped in ANH, but Tarkin did not. Nute is the big cheese, not the henchman. If he escapes, then even less is accomplished than in the original cut where he is at least captured. If he can escape in utter defeat somehow, that might work, but the emphasis has to be on his defeat, not his escape. I know blowing him up will FEEL the best. The joke of "Carl" is undermining a logical solution-- there is nothing special about Nute other than his position atop the Trade Federation. Having a replacement character whose characterization is submissive and weak, like the current Nute, solves everything while creating only the problem of covering his "introduction." Once it's established that the new submissive "Viceroy Gunray" is there to replace the blood thirsty bastard who died in Episode I, everything else stays the same.
I posted some very specific ideas on this a few pages back, and those stil stand. No lashing out in anger with the torpedoes, just Anakin "concentrating on the moment" and all that.
I apologize, but I don't remember -- why no lashing out in anger? If Anakin feels Qui Gon's death, then we have an opportunity for the emotional growth that is so sorely missing in this movie. If he lashes out emotionally, then we get a hint of the danger everyone senses from this boy. If all he does is "concentrate on the moment" and do good Jedi stuff, how is it different than the pod-race?
Well, outside the first Padme conversation I wouldn't want to do it much. The only other places I'd want it was in the climax-- establishing the link with Qui Gon -- and in the farewell with his Mom (to be discussed). I saw many scenes that MIGHT improve with this technique, but less is usually more. I think this first meeting is the biggest place where this "power" can help-- it gives Padme a secret she knows about Anakin which Qui Gon discovers in his own way. It also creates a sense of interest and suspense-- what will happen with this special boy? That's a much better sense than what the scene currently achieves -- which is basically "A meets B and we all know what that means, so there's no need for any actual emotion to occur in this scene."
-Interesting opinion on the Japor snippet scene, but I think some dialogue is needed to establish just what it is Anakin's giving to Padme.
I apologize, but I don't remember -- why no lashing out in anger? If Anakin feels Qui Gon's death, then we have an opportunity for the emotional growth that is so sorely missing in this movie. If he lashes out emotionally, then we get a hint of the danger everyone senses from this boy. If all he does is "concentrate on the moment" and do good Jedi stuff, how is it different than the pod-race?
I must be promised this music be used somewhere else in the PT though! (I'm thinking Episode 3)
Sounds good to me! What do you make of the "now we will have our revenge" line? What is Maul getting revenge for? Was this ever brought up again? Did Dukoo want revenge too? I didn't get it.
I can see where you're going with this but it doesn't do much but cause more confusion IMO. Outside the first Padme conversation this would seem totally out of place. If it could be achieved in this one scene only however, I might go along with it. You're absolutely right about her reactions.
Sounds good to me! What do you make of the "now we will have our revenge" line? What is Maul getting revenge for? Was this ever brought up again? Did Dukoo want revenge too? I didn't get it.
I can see where you're going with this but it doesn't do much but cause more confusion IMO. Outside the first Padme conversation this would seem totally out of place. If it could be achieved in this one scene only however, I might go along with it. You're absolutely right about her reactions.
Well, outside the first Padme conversation I wouldn't want to do it much. The only other places I'd want it was in the climax-- establishing the link with Qui Gon -- and in the farewell with his Mom (to be discussed). I saw many scenes that MIGHT improve with this technique, but less is usually more. I think this first meeting is the biggest place where this "power" can help-- it gives Padme a secret she knows about Anakin which Qui Gon discovers in his own way. It also creates a sense of interest and suspense-- what will happen with this special boy? That's a much better sense than what the scene currently achieves -- which is basically "A meets B and we all know what that means, so there's no need for any actual emotion to occur in this scene."
-Interesting opinion on the Japor snippet scene, but I think some dialogue is needed to establish just what it is Anakin's giving to Padme.
If you're right, which I'm not sure you are because I think it's clear enough in the visuals, then this little bit of dialogue could be done in the telepathic way of their first meeting and mean a lot more. This scene has good visuals, but awful dialogue. If this were a second instance of Anakin speaking without words, it would reinforce a special connection between Anakin and Padme -- a good thing.
-The rest of your editing suggestions on Coruscant I disagree with, as I think they are fine as they are in the movie.
I might agree with you if the entire Coruscant sequence didn't bring all momentum to a halt. Exposition by the truckload is covered, but dramatically the only accomplishment is that Amidala decides to go back to Naboo. The staggering of Senate stuff/Council stuff/Senate stuff/Council stuff slows everything even more and interrupts a couple of nice character arcs-- Padme's realization that the Senate can't help is nice, but I urge you to imagine a version of the movie where the same insights come faster and get us back into the meat of the story faster-- and the Jedi Council stuff is repetitive and underwhelming in a couple ways because attention is split between Qui-Gon's frustrations and Anakin's growing awe/unease. I would recut to emphasize Anakin's p.o.v. by reducing Obi-Wan's role -- honing things down to Qui Gon/Anakin.
Qui-Gon's [tone poem] will work because of his voiceover nature at that point. The rest, not so much. And I thought Anakin's goodbye to his mother was excellent.
I respectfully disagree about the goodbye -- just like Infodroid, I find it stiff and forced when it should be soft and poetic -- something the tone poem accomplished. With Anakin's ability to speak without words, this tone poem could actually play in the movie and do double duty to establish the mental link with Shmi that plays such a huge role in Episode II. Maybe not the whole dang poem, but a couple key lines and smoother editing and the scene would play WAY better to me.
Nice! Anyway, I hope my criticism has been constructive, and I of course look forward to further discussion on this matter.
Me too! These ideas got me fired up about what Episode I could be. SOTD has me jazzed about Episode II -- and I'm already a fan of the release cut of ROTS. It can only get better with careful treatment from Trooperman. I think we have a good chance of "rescuing" the entire PT. I think SOTD will have the power I got from the AOTC marketing. If Episode I could become as emotionally satisfying as the ads promised it would be, we'd really have something!