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The Starlight Project Addendum: The Rise of Skywalker (Freeform Brainstorming Session) — Page 17

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

Again, my only worry is the scene between Kylo and Palps we positioned before Endor wherein Palpatine is just straight up telling him to kill her again. Plus, I really like the idea that Palpatine is equally fine with either Kylo or Rey to take the throne. It makes what he says to Kylo in the intro genuine. It also allows whatever happens between Rey and Kylo to still be a part of his plan. We mention the fact they share the same fate earlier, we don’t want to take Kylo entirely off the table immediately after saying that.

If you think back to TLJ, Snoke isn’t giving Rey a fair chance whatsoever. He’s literally holding her in place and forcing Kylo to kill her. I just have a hard time buying that was something Palpatine intended to be a “challenge” for Rey to overcome and become more powerful. It’s only because of Kylo’s interest in her that she lives. They don’t conflict with each other, they fight as one. This is clearly not what Palpatine would want.

OK, yeah, all good points. And then I guess the implication is that on Endor she ‘defeats’ him for good, proving her worthiness?

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

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That works. With this as it stands, what’s the current status of the storyline around Ochi’s ship? Are we using what’s originally in the film, or making any changes there? I haven’t kept up with Ochi/D-O discourse, but it definitely feels right that it’s not mentioned in any of the conversations above.

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That then becomes it’s own reveal scene between Finn and Poe. “He wanted her alive” is already removed by Ascendant, and I’d keep it that way. Instead, the scene merely reveals that Ochi had been assigned to search for Rey and bring her to the Emperor, assumably when she was a child. Perhaps he wanted to collect her and Kylo at one point so that they would fight each other in front of the throne. But her rough life as a scavenger was perhaps something Palpatine hadn’t expected, and saw as a benefit so left her there. We don’t have to change any existing dialogue for this. Although we could replace “He wanted her alive” with “But he wanted her to be alone”.

This way we could reinstate Rey recognizing his ship, but we’d have to remove when she explains that her parents specifically were on it to Finn.

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Ah, OK. I think that’s just fine. I wouldn’t replace ‘he wanted her alive’, since he did, and evidently either the Ochi thing was going to work out for him or the Force Awakening would expose her. That’s plenty - Ochi can just be a hunter as he currently is, who tried but failed to find Rey (and had a key to Palpatine). I wouldn’t worry about the ship also being seen in TFA - it’s so brief, it barely matters, and can be handwaved away as another ship so easily if people care.

Oh and also, what did you think of this little change:

“What are you most afraid of?”
“Myself…”
“Because you’re a Palpatine? His power runs in my bloodline too.
“Final lesson. Rey… Some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny, if you don’t face Palpatine, will mean the end of the Jedi. And the war will be lost. There’s something my sister would want you to have.”

I think that just fits perfectly with what surrounds it, enhances Kylo’s relevance (which also works with your two-hosts-must-fight intent), and ties into both Leia’s rejection and Palpatine’s later recalling that the throne is “in her blood”.

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

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Yeah, let’s not modify the Ochi stuff any further.

I really want to steer clear of everybody being related to each other, especially with the Reylo kiss. The power in them is of the Force manifest in both its aspects (powerful light, powerful dark), not Palpatine’s, but he is claiming that they are his own creations regardless because he claims mastery over the whole Force. I like what we currently have because Luke is refuting Palpatine’s involvement in creating them by saying they were meant to kill him, but then later on Palpatine says that’s what he always wanted them to do. So perhaps he did still have a hand in creating them. It just gives us yet another twist moment, and leaves us unsure which of these narratives is the truth.

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I feel, on this point, that we have to pick a side between Palpatine creating Rey/Kylo and the Force creating them. In the canon, the Force is a cosmic power with a will, but darksiders are seen as wielding the Force for selfish ends in spite of that will. So Palpatine manipulating the Force to create life is a very darksider thing to do.

If we look at Anakin’s story, clearly the Jedi had a Chosen One prophecy that the force might create some super-Jedi to bring balance, but we know from implication/word of Lucas that Palpatine created Anakin. It’s a reasonable interpretation to assume Palps did that not just for an heir/apprentice, but because it would set up his creation to appear as the Chosen One and trick the Jedi as it did. And perhaps he still is the Chosen One - the Mortis episodes of TCW (made by Lucas’ choice) do make that more explicit, and he does kinda bring balance. But I think that case is more unique to specifically Anakin/Vader, and may have been what the Chosen One prophecy meant all along - Will of the Force + Palpatine manipulation = haha, still Will of the Force.

But we don’t, in canon, have any such implication of any prophecy about Rey. In the current canon she’s a Force Awakened daughter of Palpatine’s non-force-sensitive hybrid clone son, who becomes one of a Dyad of ‘one light/one dark’ with Kylo Ren. And replacing some of that with ‘Force Awakened creation of Palpatine’ I don’t think brings us any closer to a Chosen One.

We could, I suppose, argue that the Rey/Kylo Dyad is a kind of ‘Chosen One’ together (thouch I’d avoid using the words ‘Chosen One’), and imply that Rey/Kylo are essentially a two-person Vader, a manipulated creation of Palpatine that, nevertheless, is going to enact the will of the force to bring balance. And that’s kind of cool - if probably far too convoluted to put onscreen.

But we could lean into that idea more elegantly:

“Rey, I learned the rest of our story.”
“Tell me.”
"Palpatine influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. Both were once his chosen heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”
"Now, the Emperor wants us to fight each other, so that the strongest of us can inherit the throne. But he doesn’t realise that we are one, Rey… Bonded in spirit by the raw power of the Force. We are strong enough to end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

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I really don’t think we have to pick one or the other. The audience is smart enough to pick one or the other themselves based on the pieces we already have put in place. This way, we are experiencing Rey’s conflict of identity exactly as how she perceives it in the moment.

But I love that definition of the dyad so we should keep that.

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Glad you like it. It’s kind of like Palpatine’s trying to pick his own ‘Chosen One’ as he did before, this time from two candidates, not realising that they’re one together, and it’s the Rey-Kylo ‘unit’ that can defeat him (and ultimately, actually, empower him, because Dyads of your own creations are delicious). Once again, Palpatine’s the master manipulator but the Will of the Force has the last laugh.

Plus, Kylo’s right about Rey, and right about what they can achieve. But if they’re both the same yinyang - Kylo with light in his dark, and Rey with dark in her light (or the other way around), it leaves room for them to achieve some kind of viable balance. It also adds a bit more jeopardy to Rey’s final fight - facing Palpatine alone (a very Luke thing to do) isn’t going to work here - but then Kylo shows up after all, his spirit more pure. And sure, Rey and the Jedi destroy Palpatine (great light destroys great dark), but Kylo was still a key part of that process.

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

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I’m glad you recognize the comedy and irony in it as well. I touched on that quite a while ago on this page. I love the idea that Palpatine thought he has such a mastery of the Force that he could influence its own creations to serve his own will. That didn’t work out well for him the first time, yet he tries it again! Really funny stuff.

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I do wonder if it might be possible to add in there that their bond is stronger than fate itself. This way we make it clear exactly how both of them avoid the destinies they know they have with the Sith throne.

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"Now, the Emperor wants us to fight each other, so the strongest of us can inherit the throne. But he doesn’t realize we are connected as one in spirit by the raw power of the Force. Our bond transcends fate itself. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

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I think it’s generally best to leave the Will of the Force open to interpretation, and the idea of ‘destiny’ as it pertains to Rey ambiguous as to whether it’s a destiny from Palpatine or the Force directly.

Back on Luke, perhaps we can have it both ways elegantly again:
“What are you most afraid of?”
“Myself…”
“Because you’re a Palpatine? Did you forget my own father was Darth Vader?” (said in an almost cheeky, lightly teasing tone)
-or-
“Because you’re a Palpatine? You’re talking to the son of Vader [right now].” (said with amusement)
“Final lesson. Rey… Some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny, if you don’t face Palpatine, will mean the end of the Jedi. And the war will be lost. There’s something my sister would want you to have.”

This way Luke’s still referencing his own explicit dark bloodline, with the link from Vader to Palpatine left to the viewer’s memory. And it’s still relevant - he’s showing the best person to advise on ‘my blood is scary’.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

I’m glad you recognize the comedy and irony in it as well. I touched on that quite a while ago on this page. I love the idea that Palpatine thought he has such a mastery of the Force that he could influence its own creations to serve his own will. That didn’t work out well for him the first time, yet he tries it again! Really funny stuff.

Yeah. Perhaps Palpatine would have won if he’d only realised that Rey/Kylo were his joint heir, and sat them on a double-width throne together. Perhaps again it’s the Will of the Force getting one over on Palpatine - it knows the Sith are insistent on one master/one apprentice, so it made one that is two so the Sith would never think to permit the coexistence of both, and set up a situation where his spirit wouldn’t be able to inhabit the heir since it’s, y’know, two bodies.

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But we aren’t necessarily talking about Rey’s blood specifically, is the thing. I’m shifting the meaning of the lesson to be that, for all the power in the Skywalker bloodline and Rey’s, it was all for naught because their spirits weren’t strong enough to overcome the dark inclinations of the Force. Leia saw somebody who would have the spirit to do such a thing.

It’s also cool if what Luke tells Rey to do is what she tells Palpatine (“I’ve come to end you”). Then Palpatine nonchalantly is like - “Yeah, that’s what I always wanted.” It immediately dispels the pep talk that he gave her, and returns the stakes to the scene.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

But we aren’t necessarily talking about Rey’s blood specifically, is the thing. I’m shifting the meaning of the lesson to be that, for all the power in the Skywalker bloodline and Rey’s, it was all for naught because their spirits weren’t strong enough to overcome the dark inclinations of the Force. Leia saw somebody who would have the spirit to do such a thing.

I’m comfortable with that, I guess I’m just cautious about having Luke explicitly claim ‘The Force made us, to destory him’ because it’s explicit about the Force being behind them, and explicit about its will. I don’t think we should say onscreen ‘The Force wants Palpatine dead’.

It’s also cool if what Luke tells Rey to do is what she tells Palpatine (“I’ve come to end you”). Then Palpatine nonchalantly is like - “Yeah, that’s what I always wanted.” It immediately dispels the pep talk that he gave her, and returns the stakes to the scene.

That’s also a good call. It kind of ends up that everyone’s a little wrong and a little right - Kylo, Rey, and Luke, and the solution comes from them all.

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I like that new line. Anything that makes things more vague is fine by me.

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Oops I misread what you said.

What I’m trying to say is that Luke doesn’t necessarily need to say the Force made them here, just that their purpose is to kill him. This takes on a sinister meaning in Rey’s confrontation with Palpatine because he always wanted his chosen heir to kill him, so this can still be a part of Palpatine’s influence over the Force’s creations.

Something like: “Because you’re a Palpatine? We were made to kill him.” It’s not specified who made them, just what the intention was behind it.

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I feel like that’s covered well enough by his following line, perhaps with a tweak:

“What are you most afraid of?”
“Myself…”
“Because you’re a Palpatine? Some things are stronger than blood.”
“Final lesson. Rey… Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny, if you don’t overcome Palpatine, will mean the end of the Jedi, and the light. Palpatine is beyond redemption - he must be destroyed. There’s something my sister would want you to have.”

(Though I don’t know if any of this is said onscreen by Luke, in which case this may be a non-starter. Still, I think it’s clear enough from the second part that he’s directing her to do that.)

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

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But I still don’t want the misinterpretation that she shares the same blood as him.

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By the way, Kylo’s new AI voice is amazing. I get a usable line that sounds indistinguishable from the real deal every 3-4 generations. I used to have to dig through hundreds of them to find something usable.

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Re-dubbing Luke’s line into a question also works marvelously:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LpkUB5LmNJ4Sd3xEGWH4UKNBx145tait/view?usp=sharing

It’s truly incredible what technology has allowed us to do.

Now, for context, let me be clear as to what “some things are stronger than blood” means at this point. In original TROS, it is a continuation of what they were just talking about. With the addition of “Final lesson” I’m hoping it’s clear that he’s changing topics. If you look at when he did this in TLJ, he would state the thesis of the lesson he was going to teach her immediately after this line about the lesson. Then, he would proceed explain his reasoning as to why that thesis is true.

So, in this case, he’s changing topics away from Palpatine’s supposed involvement in her conception. Then, the point of his lesson is that having this blood infused with all the power of the Force itself isn’t all its cracked up to be. He uses the example of Leia. She couldn’t even finish her training because she knew there was too much potential darkness inside of her. But Leia knew there would be somebody one day with both that power AND the spirit to overcome that darkness. However we want to word the flashback voiceover I’m fine with, but I’d prefer it to line up with what I’m describing, roughly.