The Starlight Project Addendum: The Rise of Skywalker (Freeform Brainstorming Session) — Page 15

At least in my lexicon, “lore” refers to books and supplementary material like comics.

Like I said, I’m willing to hear some alternatives for the paragraph after the heroes capture. What you had in your last draft is too short. Then I could reimplement the part about their paths being intertwined. But keep in mind that we’d still have Palpatine later claiming he never wanted her dead and also him sending Ochi to find a young Rey at some point.

EDIT: I just ripped the old one from previously in the thread since you aren’t providing me an option - “Palpatine knew your true potential… your power. The first time we fought, in the forest, the darkness inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself to the Emperor that day… just as he intended.”

I do also wonder if we could change Kylo’s line from earlier in the movie “Palpatine wants you dead” -> “Palpatine wants me to kill you”. This way we really lean into the idea that it’s not he specifically wants Rey dead, it’s just that she seems the least likely to claim his throne at this point.

I’ve been reading this thread with tons of interest and as I said pages and pages ago the idea of Rey being like Anakin is the first one that has me OK with Ben Solo dying in the end. I fancy myself a writer (haha!) so I decided to take a stab at that dialogue you’ve all been working on blending the ideas. I used what was here as a template and then just went with it, striving for the goals intended here: Tying up the trilogies together and bringing this whole thing together.

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see. You needed to see who you are. The dark side is your birthright, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders who were nothing, knew nothing. You were an impossible child just like my grandfather.”

“Don’t!”

“There was no father, yet you were born…”

“I don’t want this!”

“Just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny?”

(Rey sees vision)

“Luke saw the same in me. But you and I, we reject that fate. We’ll make our own.”

“Stop talking.”

“Why? I know you better than anyone.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

"The Force showed me a girl before we met. It was you. In the forest when we fought, the power inside of you awoke. I saw it in your eyes. Rey, you revealed yourself not only to me, but to Palpatine… just as he’d intended.

(Visions of Rey & Kylo on Starkiller - their eyes meeting when she gained her strength and pushed him back, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(Pedestal shatters, Vader mask falls)

“So that’s where you are. Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you alive.”

“No…”

“I’ll come tell you why.”

“Rey, I know the rest of your story.”

“Tell me.”

"Palpatine used the Force to create life itself. First with my grandfather and then with you. He’s been in my head my whole life, guiding me, leading me towards my destiny. But Vader had failed him and so might I, so there was you, without the tainted Skywalker blood. Rey, you are his vessel, the one he chose to bear his mantle, his power, his name.

“Palpatine wants a battle between us two so that his most worthy heir can claim his throne and he can witness the defeat of the last Skywalker. But he doesn’t realize the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together.”

I thought tying in that Palpatine has been in his head all along added strength to what Kylo was saying. Also, Kylo feels that he and Rey are stronger than Palpatine so him not referring to him as the Emperor diminishes him. The reference to the “last Skywalker” adds a bittersweetness to Ben’s death (the bitter) but Rey taking on the name Skywalker (the sweet).

Using that moment on Starkiller in their battle when Rey realizes her power and Kylo realizes it too, I think, brings it home. Not his defeat, but THE awakening.

Anyway, just another stab at it.

I am sorry, I have no idea how to do the expand!

A lot of that would work great in a novelization! The trouble is we have to choose our words very carefully due to space limitations. I’ll dig into some of the rewordings you have there to see if I can change some things around.

For example, I absolutely LOVE the idea of “But we can make our own fate.” Definitely replacing “But you and I don’t want it” with that.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

A lot of that would work great in a novelization! The trouble is we have to choose our words very carefully due to space limitations. I’ll dig into some of the rewordings you have there to see if I can change some things around.

For example, I absolutely LOVE the idea of “But we can make our own fate.” Definitely replacing “But you and I don’t want it” with that.

I did try and look at how long the wording was in the original to match what you guys already had. I really love what you’ve come up with; I just want to help in any way I can (like I said: writer!) so if I can play around with you guys some more on this, I’m more than happy too. I can’t stress enough how much I am LOVING how this could fix TROS for me.

Hmmm… I do wonder if such advice coming from Kylo could be seen as a negative, though. If it was coming from Luke later on, then I’d be totally on board, but at this point in the movie we may want Rey to think her vision is inevitable, thus why she goes to Ahch-To in the first place.

But on the other hand, Kylo’s proposition to Rey doesn’t make sense unless he believes they have some level of control over their own fate. So maybe it’s better left unsaid that he believes this? I’ll have to think about this one a bit.

Another point against mentioning Vader at the beginning is that there’s no reason to believe Rey would know of his immaculate conception, so it feels more like Kylo is talking to the audience rather than Rey, since he’s basically using Vader to explain the concept. On the hangar scene it feels more like he’s revealing to Rey that his grandfather had the same origin as her, explaining their connection.

Despite what I said earlier about Kylo having visions of Rey, I like the way you worded it, since it sounds more like a recent vision similar to how Rey saw Kylo in the forest when she touched the saber. Maybe it could be something like: “Before we met, I had a vision of a girl. It was you, in the forest. When we fought, the power inside of you awoke. You revealed yourself not only to me, but to Palpatine… just as he’d intended”. Still not sold on the idea, but it’s better.

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never wanted.”

“Don’t!”

“But they had no say in your conception…”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny.”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Luke saw the same future in me. But we can make our own fate.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey… I’m the only one that truly knows you.” (connects to Rey saying "everybody keeps saying they know me… I’m afraid no one does.)

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Palptine forsaw the darkness you would possess. When we first fought, in the forest, the power inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself to the Emperor that day… just as he’d intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Our fates have always been
intertwined."

“No…”

"I’ll come tell you why.”

—

“Palpatine told me the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"He influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. You were his chosen heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"The Emperor wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

Burbin said:

Another point against mentioning Vader at the beginning is that there’s no reason to believe Rey would know of his immaculate conception, so it feels more like Kylo is talking to the audience rather than Rey, since he’s basically using Vader to explain the concept.

It wasn’t always like this. Initially we had something like the following:

“You were right. Your parents were nobody. No father conceived you.” (haha funny word play moment. This is all Rey says in TLJ: “They were nobody”.)

“Don’t!”

“You’re so much like my grandfather. So like Darth Vader…”

“I don’t want this!”

“…destined to rule”

“No!”

We’re probably never going to agree what a good characterization of her parents should look like, that’s why I’m leaning toward omitting them as much as possible.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Most of those points are simply too ambitious for what resources we have at our disposal. I will say though, for #3, that TLJ is guilty of giving you a certain impression and then doing a 180 on it, as well. Luke is gonna take his lightsaber! Nope, he just threw it away as a joke. Leia just died, oh no! Nope, she can use the Force in space. They found the master code breaker! Nope, they just got tazed. Snoke is such an incredibly powerful big bad! Nope, he got duped and he’s dead. Luke just saved the Resistance in a way where everyone lives! Nope, he’s dead. There’s just as much whiplash; granted, it doesn’t rotate back and forth like it does for Kylo. But there’s nothing we can do about that.

The only one that can be fixed really is Kylo’s independence as a villain, and I think we’ve got that somewhat nailed down at the moment. Palpatine encourages him to take the Sith throne and kill Rey. In original TROS, he, for some reason, wants the Sith throne WITH Rey. This is a complete 180 of his character motivations that we left off with from TLJ.

By having him simply give the same proposal that he gives Rey in TLJ (destroy the Sith and Palps, make something new) it goes a long way for his character. He is actively refusing both of Palpatine’s commands to him. It’s clear that, even if Rey refuses to accompany him to Exegol, he’s still intent on destroying the Sith and commandering their fleet for the First Order. He probably only raises his lightsaber to strike her down on the Death Star wreckage because he’s given her so many opportunities to quit being a Jedi and join him. It’s clear to him that she’s a Jedi at heart and he doesn’t like the Jedi just as much as Palpatine.

EDIT: Also, I’m not sure if you realized this, but your first two points contradict each other. Palpatine cannot be one step ahead of Kylo while Kylo is also outsmarting him as an outstanding villain in his own right. We have to pick one or the other. I prefer that Kylo outsmarted him.

Thank you for your reply. However, I must respectfully disagree. Suggesting that Kylo could credibly match wits with Palpatine strengthens his character rather than weakens it. He was under Snoke’s thumb in TFA and TLJ. It’s a disappointing progression of his character to also see him under Palpatine’s thumb, too (especially after he defeated Smoke). I’d simply remove Palpatine’s lines that suggest he was never an autonomous actor and was essentially being mind-controlled the whole time.

I’m surprised you think my ideas are too ambitious given that, with fanediting, it’s almost always easier to subtract from, rather than add to, any given film. Regarding Palpatine, I simply want to streamline his motivations and provide him with a more intelligible agenda, i.e., he’s luring Kylo and Rey by exploiting Kylo’s fragile ego and Rey’s need for belonging, but what Palpatine really intends all along is to sap the power of their Dyad. That’s a subtractive, not additive, process, because I would argue that all the pieces are already there. As it is Palpatine is presented as being woefully uninformed and not really knowing what he wants, and that is VERY out of character for him.

You seem to have a very clear vision, however, of what you’d like to see. I wish you the best of luck. I will either spam my ideas on another thread or maybe one day I’ll even take up fanediting again. Cheers.

I feel like there’s a little bit of passive aggressiveness in your response? Did I say something wrong? I mean, sure, maybe I was mistaken that some of that isn’t too ambitious, but that’s because you never made it clear how exactly you’d go about these changes until now. Your initial post didn’t have specifics. Because I genuinely think we are in agreement here, not disagreement. We just have different chosen methods to achieve the same results.

I like that as a way to differentiate Rey from the skywalkers, if it can be conveyed in the film.

I think we’re circling back to when I had the phrase “My grandfather, and then perfected in darkness with you.” Obviously the wording would be a tad different, but yeah. I don’t remember exactly why we ended up removing that. If somebody remembers, please let me know!

“Palpatine influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then merged with a part of himself in you. You… are a [rightful] Palpatine.” (not sure if we even need “rightful” anymore)

EDIT: Ah, I think I remember why I removed that now. It’s because the message of this movie ultimately needs to be that your spirit is stronger than your blood. So having a piece of Palpatine’s spirit in her muddies things - if that’s what we’re talking about. It also prevents Luke’s advice from being applicable to her that we’ve already drafted.

Also I like that the current version leaves it ambiguous if Palpatine directly “made” Anakin & Rey, or if they were creations of the Force (to ultimately bring it to balance) motivated by Palpatine’s dark machinations. The proposed changes to Luke’s dialogue would suggest the latter, while Palpatine himself aims to take credit for their existence and claim them as his own.

I think “perfected in darkness” is vague enough to assume whatever you want while still hinting at something that makes her different to the skywalkers. This is why I slightly prefer Rey to be the sole creation of palpatine, because if they’re the same then we’ve already seen the skywalkers overcome the same struggle, just like the dark lineage plotline of the original. But the way it ties the trilogies together is worth it I think.

Burbin said:

Also I like that the current version leaves it ambiguous if Palpatine directly “made” Anakin & Rey, or if they were creations of the Force (to ultimately bring it to balance) motivated by Palpatine’s dark machinations. The proposed changes to Luke’s dialogue would suggest the latter, while Palpatine himself aims to take credit for their existence and claim them as his own.

Burbin out here speaking facts.

But hinventon does bring up the good point that perhaps we’ve technically already seen this type of character conflict before in Anakin (and perhaps even Luke). I do want to share a couple differences that might make it a tad different:

1. This time, Palpatine is announcing his perceived ownership of his “creation” whereas with Anakin he only implies it. This is particularly relevant in Rey’s case if she has parents that abandoned her.
2. Rey’s vision is different than Anakin’s because it suggests she is certain to fall to the dark side instead of merely losing a loved one.

OK, this one is going to be a bit darker. I wanted to focus each section on 1 or 2 things and make it more ambiguous how much Palpatine is in control or just riding on the wave of events.

I also wanted it to feel more like a conclusion of the whole Saga.
…
"I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is in your very nature, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

"When your mother noticed you were growing inside her, she tried to get rid of you…”

“Don’t!”

“But you forced yourself into this world nonetheless…”

“I don’t want this!”

"…because you had a purpose…”

“No!”

“Nothing will stand in the way of your destiny!”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Fate lead your parents to seek passage onboard a Sith vessel…”

(vision of Oochis ship leaving)

“Stop it!”

“… But they had to sell something to pay for it…”

(short vision of little rey crying)

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents neglect was your luck. Palpatine would have found you that day otherwise… So you stayed hidden… until our first fight in the woods…"

(Visions of Rey opening her eyes and then cut to Palpatine taking notice)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“This mask represents the choice we both have to make."

“No…”

"I’ll tell you why.”

—

“I know the rest of your story.”

“Tell me.”

"Just like Vader, you are born of turmoil. A result of Palpatine intruding the very essence of the force. In a way, you are his child.”

(vision from Rots where Palps talks about creating life, maybe a short “there was no father” by Shmi as well)

"He has been searching a new host for a long time now. Vader burned, Luke refused to play his game…”

(Maybe some visions of those scenes while he talks, which gives us a bit more time for dialogue)

"Now he has set his eyes on us. If we fight each other, the survivor will only have proven to be a worthy vessel. We have to use our connection, defeat him together, finish what Vader has started.

I think if Palpatine had introduced any part of himself into Rey, then he almost certainly would know or have a say in where she was going to be born. Therefore, it wouldn’t make sense for her parents to be involved with the Sith unless it was expressly to return Rey to the Sith. At least with the way we’ve framed things now, Palpatine is only claiming creations of the Force as his rightful “property”. This doesn’t give us the implication that he got to decide where the child went to, and open up that plot hole of him not immediately coming for a young Rey.

I honestly think that giving Rey a further portion of the dark side is unnecessary. We’ve positioned things in quite a clever way already for there to be double meanings that Rey initially takes to mean the worst:

1. “Palpatine influenced the Force itself into creating life”. Rey and Kylo take this to mean they are rightfully Palpatine’s, destined for darkness like Vader.
2. Luke tells Rey that this is a stretch of the truth. The Force only made them to destroy him.
3. Rey confronts Palpatine armed with this knowledge, and he turns the tables once more: “Yes, I know you are meant to destroy me. That’s what I want and intended all along for you. My spirit will pass into you, and you will become a Palpatine regardless.”
4. It’s only because of the Force ghosts that she can fulfill her purpose ordained by the Force without succumbing to Palpatine’s machinations. She claims herself a Jedi, and later a Skywalker since both her own parents and Palpatine never had any right to her.

Here is all the dialogue as I currently have it because I haven’t shared it for a bit:

“Palpatine wants me to kill you.”

“Serving another master?”

“No. I have other plans…”

—

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright. Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“You were right. Your parents were nobody, but in more than one way. Nobody conceived you.”

“Don’t!”

“You’re so much like my grandfather. So like Darth Vader…”

“I don’t want this!”

“…destined to rule.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you?”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Luke saw the same fate in me. We can only make our own together.”

“Stop talking.”

“I’m the only one who truly knows you.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Long before we met, I had a vision of a girl. When we first fought, in the forest, the power inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself not only to me, but to Palpatine… just as he’d intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Our paths have always been intertwined."

“No…”

"I’ll come tell you why.”

—

“Rey, I know the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"Palpatine influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. Both once favored as his heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"Now, the Emperor wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

—
“What are you most afraid of?”

“Myself…”

“Because you’re a Palpatine? The Force made us, to destroy him.”

“Final lesson. Rey… Some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny, if you don’t face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And the war will be lost."

"There’s something my sister would want you to have.”

—

“Leia’s saber.”

“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia knew that a light as powerful as her own would cast a terrible shadow within her. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day it would be picked up again by someone with the spirit to face that darkness.”

—

“Long have I waited… I never wanted you dead. I wanted you here, with me, Empress Palpatine. You will take the throne. It is your birthright to rule here. It is in your blood.”

“I haven’t come to lead the Sith. I’ve come to end them.”

“As a Jedi?”

“Yes.”

“No. Your hatred, your anger. You want to kill me. That is what I want. Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you, as all the Sith live in me. You will be Empress. We will be one.”

“All you want is for me to hate but I won’t. Not even you.”

“Weak. Your master, Luke Skywalker, was saved by his father. The only family you have here… is me.” (Everything after this point would be unaltered Ascendant v4).

“I saw what you would become. Face Palpatine alone, and you’ll play right into his hand. You’ll kill him, and take the throne. You… will be his heir.”

"But you don’t have to be alone. Palpatine only wants us to fight so the strongest can take his place. What he doesn’t know is we’re a dyad in the force, Rey… two, that are one. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

I think adding that “reveal” line at the end of the first paragraph will make it match better to the visuals/score.

That looks solid for Rey Nobody! Is that what you’re referencing?

But for our idea here, these two sentences are integral and I refuse to change them “Palpatine influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you.” I think I’ve managed to make it quite clear in the last draft that her destiny is to rule, so whether that’s by Kylo’s side to make something new or as Palpatine’s Sith heir, it’s what she’s ultimately afraid of and seeking to overcome. In other words, her vision doesn’t need to be referenced again in the reveal scene because it’s already been established.

EDIT: Thanks to you though, I’ve finally found wording I like for Kylo’s line - “Luke saw the same fate in me. Only together can we make our own.”

Yeah, that’s for Rey Nobody. I like how it includes the theme of coming together, as Rey wants to do the mission solo the whole film. It also gives Kylo’s line “the only way you’re getting to Exogol is with me” a slightly new meaning, since he now wants Rey to go with him because he doesn’t want her to turn to the sith, and instead create something new with him. I like the current dialogue for the force creation version, but I think I prefer some of the older wording.

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright. Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“You were right. Your parents were nobody. Junk traders from the outer rim.”

“Don’t!”

“But they played no part in your conception…” ( I think it’s best to assume that Rey’s parents simply didn’t realize she wasn’t theirs, probably because they’re asshole drunkards.)

“I don’t want this!”

“…Just like Vader.” (I don’t think this line really spoils anything because we still don’t know that Palpatine has any involvement in this.)

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you?”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Luke saw the same fate in me. Only together can we make our own.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey… I’m the only one who truly knows you.” (I like the Rey/Finn scene referencing this later.)

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Long before we met, I had a vision of a girl. When we first fought, in the forest, the power inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself not only to me, but to Palpatine… just as he’d intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Our paths have always been intertwined."

“No…”

"I’ll come tell you why.”

—

“Rey, I know the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"Palpatine influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. Like him, you were chosen to be the heir of the sith. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"Now, the Emperor wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

Right, so the reason I swapped the Vader reference back to where it was is due to Burbin’s realization that Rey shouldn’t even be aware of Anakin’s whole fatherless birth thing, so her response to his statement is questionable at best. That’s why she just needs to be denying her similarity to Vader, not that specific tidbit about him.

A similar thing is happening after he describes her parents in your draft, where her reaction isn’t matching what he’s describing. She’s already come to terms with the fact that they’re nobody junk traders, that was the point of TLJ. So him bringing up an undeniable fact like that again really shouldn’t be getting under her skin. He needs to be saying something in that moment which Rey would initially perceive as a lie, and rightfully so due to how outrageous it seems.

I also think it’s important to keep the concepts of heir to the Sith and heir to Palpatine distinct. After all, we don’t know Palpatine is all the Sith at this moment yet. We’re trying to emphasize a pseudo-familial relationship here to play off of her parents not caring about her, and not an organizational legacy which she shouldn’t care about.

I do like a couple other small changes you made though so I’ll nab those.