The Starlight Project Addendum: The Rise of Skywalker (Freeform Brainstorming Session) — Page 14

Here’s another slightly different draft. I think going into the force reaction aspect is a little confusing, and I’d rather spend those lines on drawing the connections between Rey and Kylo.

"I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders with a child they never expected.”

“Don’t!”

“But they had no part in your conception…”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny.”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Your parents sold you because they were afraid of you…”

“Stop talking.”

“The same way Luke was afraid of me.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“The force showed me glimpses of you long before we met. When we fought for the first time, in the forest, the power inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself not only to me, but to the Emperor… just as he’d intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Our fates have always been intertwined."

“No…”

"I’ll tell you why.”

—

“Palpatine told me the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"He influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. You were The Emperor’s chosen heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"The Emperor wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

“Expecting a child” is necessary in order to make it clear we aren’t talking about adoption. And I think a reference to there being no father instead of merely a lack of parental involvement in conception is necessary in order for more casual fans to catch the link with Anakin/Vader.

I understand you’re trying to paint her parents under a more sympathetic light so that their abandonment of Rey is more due to the fault of her own nature and their fear of it. But I genuinely don’t think Rey should be that threatening at this age as a creation of the Force. We have Episode 1 Anakin to look to, and he didn’t appear to have a speck of evil in him (except for beating up Greedo in that deleted scene). Besides, the implication you’re making here is that they are also Force-sensitive enough to realize the dark potential Rey has. This is a big no-no in my opinion, as they need to remain as normal and worthless as TLJ portrays them.

I’m currently going for the concept that if an extremely powerful Force user tries to grow in their power, the strength of their light scales with the shadow it casts. Essentially, you start unlocking your true potential, but as a result there are exponentially more temptations to turn to evil and use the “quick and easy” path. Obviously Rey as a child isn’t even aware of the Force; her power is still (mostly) latent. Therefore, we have to assume that the only thing that could scare her parents enough to abandon her is the fact that her mother never had the prerequisite relations for such a thing to even be possible. Perhaps she does exhibit some slight Force powers, which some people in the Star Wars galaxy would see as evil no matter what, which leads to her abandonment at a later age than birth.

What Kylo says doesn’t have to be true, he’s just playing things up to get in her head. But, Rey’s parents could have totally been afraid of a baby that they didn’t conceive, especially one that exhibited strange powers as a child, like Anakin did with his racing. Maybe this is an result of Imperial propaganda painting the Jedi as evil. Rey didn’t even know if Luke is a real person in TFA, so their access to information is probably restricted on Jakku. Although, perhaps using “mother” or “family” instead of “parents” because I can’t imagine Rey’s dad believing his girl saying she got pregnant for no reason. The lines about Palpatine using the force’s reaction to his resurrection is sort of hard to grasp because it’s not really tangible, at least for me. I think it’s better to just leave it vague.

hinventon said:

I can’t imagine Rey’s dad believing his girl saying she got pregnant for no reason. The lines about Palpatine using the force’s reaction to his resurrection is sort of hard to grasp because it’s not really tangible, at least for me. I think it’s better to just leave it vague.

This. What Kylo is telling Rey is for her own and the audience’s better understanding. Whether we have Kylo phrase it in this scene as neither parent having involvement in her creation or no father having involvement in her creation, the reality of the situation will always appear exactly as what you just described - that her partner wouldn’t believe her and think she cheated on him. Which would only add to her own resentment of the child. And the father would rightly believe she isn’t his own anyway. So both of them are eventually down with selling her. It makes sense. Perhaps we should steer away from their fear of her and back to the land of resentment. Because ultimately the audience’s own understanding of this more abstract origin story is more important than a slightly elevated characterization for Rey. We desperately need that link to Shmi’s line: “There was no father” to ensure this concept doesn’t feel un-Star Warsy.

EDIT: Here is a draft of the above:

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they couldn’t have conceived.”

“Don’t!”

“Resentment grew. He never believed her — no father, yet you were born.”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

I’ll have to give the Palpatine resurrection lines more thought tomorrow. They might not make it through. We’ll probably have to revert to something like “Luke saw the same fate in me. But you and I don’t want it” and “Why? I know you better than anyone else”. But this is where they currently stand for me:

“When Palpatine was summoned, it caused a great disturbance in the Force.”

“Stop talking.”

“Its response was his greatest opportunity.”

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I really think the reference to Vader is necessary. It gives a purpose to Vader’s mask looming in the background besides cheap fan service. It also clues more casual fans on to what’s happening assuming they’ve seen episode 1. Plus, the line there needs to be extremely short, just 2-3 words. The line after “Don’t!” is currently too short as you have it. The paragraph after the heroes capture also needs to be a lot longer than that. There simply isn’t enough content there to fill out the space required. The purpose of the sentence you removed is to hint at a connection they’ve always shared through the Force, just as his remarks before we left to the heroes capture are meant to hint at her connection to Palpatine. They both get clarified at the end.

I think referencing Vader on like the second line basically spoils the entire twist before it even begins, things should be revealed at a steady pace to keep the audience involved and guessing, and I think we should give them a bit of credit to try and interpret what’s being said, rather than spoon-feed them so quickly. Vader’s mask works well enough as a visual clue without direct mention.

So first we reveal something was up with Rey since her birth, she was “a child they never expected”, so perhaps the mother couldn’t have kids, we imply that without having to use heavy terms like “barren womb”. Specially since we then reveal they didn’t concieve her in the first place, and whatever reason she came to be was something that scared them.

It’s left ambiguous what would’ve scared Rey’s parents, but we know what scares Rey herself, as we immediately move to the vision of her dark destiny, the thing she’s “most afraid of”. Then we explain the origin of her dark destiny: Palpatine’s return. We imply he had something to do with her conception, but we’re still not sure of how or why, so next we reveal part of the why: there is great power in her, power that awakened at the end of TFA which somehow set things in motion for Palpatine’s plan.

Then finally, at the hangar scene, we reveal the how: Palpatine manipulated the Force itself to create her, and now we tie everything back to Vader/Anakin and the stuff from the prequels, and we get the whole picture. That was my thought process anyway.

As for the lines about Kylo seeing visions of a little girl, I just think that’s a wierd thing to throw out there in the middle of so many big revelations. Kylo being somewhat obsessed with “the girl” in TFA never felt like something that needed to be explained, it always seemed like just part of his angsty teen persona, to be upset that some mysterious girl is thwarting his plans. If anything it feels like something to be left as a hint to their eventual connection, or to be expanded in supplementary material, not in the middle of a huge reveal two movies later, specially since it has nothing to do with what Palpatine revealed to Kylo. I just don’t think it fits in here.

I do really like “the result was his greatest opportunity”. But I think the change you made before that raises some questions. Some people going into this edit would be under the impression that Palpatine cheated death immediately after Vader threw him down the reactor shaft. That is the canon answer, after all. So with the way you’ve currently worded it, it implies that Rey should have been born immediately after ROTJ, which we of course know isn’t the case.

I don’t see why the audience should asume Palpatine returned immediately after his death in ROTJ. In TLJ Luke says “for many years there was balance”, how could there be balance for years if the Sith were alive and well all this time? I think it’d be the other way around, these lines would explain to the audience that Palpatine returned around the time Rey was born, which would also coincide with Ben growing up and beggining to show darkness, the first sign of balance being lost again, according to Luke.

I’m also unsure why you’d remove “Palpatine told me the rest of our story.” It’s to remind the audience to take what he says with a grain of salt.

Again I feel we should trust the audience here, we know what Kylo is revealing here is what Palpatine revealed to him earlier, it’s information they didn’t have in the previous movies, and we’re not supposed to trust either Palps or Kylo, it’s a given that we might question it. But Kylo seems to believe it, so I think it’s better if he says as much, being confident that he understands the whole picture.

I dunno, when I was in the theater in 2015 and I heard him say “What girl?” I genuinely thought that was supposed to be a hint that he was familiar enough with some girl that could have done this. There are countless others on the internet that felt the same way. Clearly Colin Trevorrow thought the same thing. Remember, this reveal we’re crafting is meant to tie together the entire trilogy and make it feel like this was planned out all along. The fact that we already are emphasizing how linked they always were through the Force means it would be a shame not to take this opportunity. We don’t have the luxury of creating our own supplementary material here.

Take a look at my last post. As hiventon pointed out, 9 times out of 10 Rey’s father would think her mother cheated on him in circumstances like this. There really isn’t any room for fear to be involved. Not unless her mother was barren, which isn’t worth stating to make the fear angle work because that would actually make Rey a positive thing and something to celebrate for 90% of couples. I think what I’ve got there is a short enough blurb to explain why a couple would sell their own child. And after that, they aren’t mentioned again, as they shouldn’t be.

For you, a well-versed fan in the lore, the direct reference to Vader immediately spells that part of her birth out too much. For others who don’t know as much, I think it’s a sufficient and more relevant hint. Remember, the only thing that is confirmed to fans who understand the lore is that Rey is a birth just like Anakin. That just means she’s practically another chosen one, which should be a good thing! Palpatine’s part in all that hasn’t been revealed yet. Perhaps this is the reason the newest part about her birth coinciding with Palpatine’s return should be removed so we save that for the actual reveal.

Without going into the actual subject, JJB makes a very important point here.

Ideally the ideas are simple enough that an average viewer paying an average amount of attention can grasp what is going on when watching the movie for the first time.

Check this one out. Ideas pop from one to the next sequentially:

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they couldn’t have conceived.”

“Don’t!”

“Resentment grew. He never believed her — no father, yet you were born.”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny.”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Luke saw the same fate in me. But you and I don’t want it.”

“Stop talking.”

“Why? I know you better than anyone.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“The Force showed me glimpses of a girl like you long before we first met. When we fought, in the forest, the power inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself not only to me, but to the Emperor… just as he’d intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you alive."

“No…”

"I’ll come tell you why.”

—

“Rey, I know the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"Palpatine influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. You were his chosen heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"Now, the Emperor wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

We’re back to the point where the timing of Rey’s birth doesn’t seem to have a purpose, but I think that’s okay! Anakin’s birth didn’t coincide with Palpatine’s birth, or his own initiation into the Sith as a youngster. The Force moves in mysterious ways. We just have to assume it placed their births at just the right time. And, if Palpatine had a hand in it, just the right time for himself.

Also, the reason we need to mention Palpatine’s desire for having her alive before her Jedi path is because there will be two more references to this idea further on in the edit. I think it’s important to establish that here so it doesn’t shatter people’s understanding of Palpatine’s machinations.

Ah, but that comes from an EU novel. In canon, it hasn’t been stated what the catalyst was for Anakin’s birth, only that he was created by the Force to be the chosen one.

Like I said, perhaps its best to leave this up to the audience’s interpretation. They can imagine that the Force made both Anakin and Rey at just the right times to coincide with their needed role, or they can imagine that Palpatine created them at the most opportune time for himself. Or a combination of both.

EDIT: The biggest problem with this idea in general is where it would be located. It reveals that Palpatine had a role in Rey’s conception too early where it’s currently at - that needs to be saved for the hangar as it’s the crux of all this. And it can’t be mentioned in the hangar because we need to use the same wording from ROTS to keep within the bounds of familiar Star Wars to sell the reveal as authentic.

While we do this I may try to make a better version of the current nobody edit, splicing in the new Ascendant lines and some stuff from Spence. The big thing I want to do is rescore the reveal, as it’s not much of a reveal in the film. If anyone’s good with audio and would like to attempt it that would be amazing, I’ll try it but I’m not sure how it will turn out.

I mean, it’s not just the score of the scene which is framed like a big reveal. It’s intentionally invoking the same imagery as ESB - Our hero finds themselves cornered in front of a fatal fall. The villain takes advantage of this to reveal a tragic truth about the two of them, and that they need to kill the Emperor together. He says they need to rule the galaxy together in his place, but the hero jumps and escapes his clutches on the Falcon.

But if that’s something you want to do, more power to you! I’m just warning you that it’s not as simple as replacing the score. The vibe of the scene is always going to remind you of “No, I am your father” somewhere in your subconscious.

It can still be a moment like that, the music that plays just frames what Kylo said immediately prior as a big revelation when we already sort of know the info he’s saying in this version. I think putting a more subtle track like Kylos theme or maybe a slower imperial March cue could work there instead. The I am your father scene had a similar score instead of the big buildup reveal cue that TROS has.

“Rey, I’ve seen the rest of your story.”

“Tell me.”

"I saw what you would become. The darkness in your future. Face Palpatine alone, and you’ll be giving him what he wants. You’ll kill him, and take the throne.”

"But you don’t have to go alone. Palpatine only wants us to fight so the strongest can be his heir. What he doesn’t know is we’re a dyad in the force, Rey… two, that are one. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

Thoughts on this? This way, the vision Rey and Kylo have can be true, because Rey doesn’t go alone. In the end, she has Ben with her. He appears right as Rey is about to kill Palpatine. The force duel doesn’t really need to be changed as Spence’s is already good. This would also use Spence’s removal of Rey’s line where she says she wants to destroy Palps.

hinventon said:

It can still be a moment like that, the music that plays just frames what Kylo said immediately prior as a big revelation when we already sort of know the info he’s saying in this version. I think putting a more subtle track like Kylos theme or maybe a slower imperial March cue could work there instead. The I am your father scene had a similar score instead of the big buildup reveal cue that TROS has.

I suppose so. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think it’s best to play to the strengths we have throughout the saga for an edit like TROS. That was my mindset going into this whole process. It’s like a puzzle, and we just had to find the right pieces and arrange them in such a way that respects as much as possible from what came before. Without playing favorites to any particular episode. Hopefully we’ve already accomplished this.

It’s so much easier to simply delete everything that you don’t like in editing - to delete everything that contradicts that middle chapter in our case. I think that sort of defeats the purpose of there even being another film set after it in the first place. TLJ ends in such a way that doesn’t leave a whole lot open, after all, besides moving on to a new saga. Which is why I strongly believe Rian Johnson should have directed Episode IX, not VIII.

Therefore, I feel any edit of TROS is obligated to extend beyond what was presented in TLJ in term’s of Rey’s origin/destiny. She had clearly already accepted her inner conflict in that movie, that her parents were worthless nobodies. In the interest of making the entire saga feel like one big story, her purpose in life really did deserve a second look. But JJ and Terrio went about it in the wrong way by giving her the same blood as the overarching villain, instead of linking her directly to the Skywalkers - who this is all about.

All that being said, what you have posted there for a Rey Nobody edit is pretty good. It’s giving Rey a predetermined fate beyond being a nobody that she needs to rise above. But the main reason I could never get behind the Rey Nobody edit is it cannot hope to explain why Rey has a comparable power level to a bloodline created by the Force itself. Yes, normal people give birth to powerful Force users all the time in the Star Wars universe, but none THAT powerful. Yes, Palpatine himself was one of those born to normal people that becomes obscenely powerful, but even fully engulfed in the dark side he admits that Anakin has more potential than him and Yoda in ROTS. Rey taking on the Skywalker name in an edit like this cements this awful idea, for me at least, that her character is purely wish fulfillment. I’m hoping that the alternative backstory we’ve collaborated on is enough to make both her level of power and her taking on the name of Skywalker feel deserved/warranted.

Yes, I think what we have is a great alternate version that keeps the spirit of TROS. I think we should make the dark vision dialogue anyways though, since that’s what I believe Hal wants for a Nobody edit. Nothing crazy, but gives the scene a little more to chew on going into the final act.

If I’ve got the characters left after doing my version, I could generate it all. Because I’m gonna need a hand editing that version together. A favor for a favor. I can probably host it myself though if it’s rendered around 10-15 gb.

Let’s see if he likes that Nobody dialogue. Try sharing it on his thread.

Cool, that was just a first draft too, so if anyone has anything to add, go for it. Idk how much it costs, but if you run out of characters, maybe we could crowdsource some funds.

Nah, I’ve got it. It’s 22 bucks for more than I’ve ever used in a month. I’ve spent more on stuff that gives me less entertainment value.

Besides, I feel like I’ve been too in control of the writing process for it to come out of anybody’s pocket except my own. I did the same thing for Ascendant.

I disagree JJ, TLJ left the story wide open to go in any new direction for it’s final chapter, freed from the shackles of familiar tropes. If episode IX had embraced that we would’ve had a very coherent trilogy, with episode VIII serving as the bridge between the familiar and the new. However that was not the episode IX we got, this is a movie completely focused on looking backwards instead of forward, filled top to bottom with familiar sights, sounds, characters, story beats, etc. and no amount of fan editing can really change that.

Which is why I think the approach we’re brainstorming is the best possible way to salvage this movie, by leaning into what this movie actually is and trying to make that more coherent. We already have Palpatine/the Sith back, and we have Rey going through a new revelation, so the best approach is to use these elements in a way that actually complements what came before, taking even more from previous movies to tie everything together.

It all comes down to what we would have preferred for the conclusion of this 9 part Skywalker saga. Lots of people (like me) wanted the new stuff to come in different projects. Then lots of others, like you, wanted to get to that new stuff ASAP. The only reason I’m not in that category is because I think the purpose of the sequels should have been to explain any lingering mysteries left in Anakin’s story, and how that affects his family. Then, at the end (not the middle 😉 ), leave the door open for different stories than the Skywalkers. Which is exactly what we are doing with this edit. Palpatine’s return is now justified in this story in order to explain Anakin’s conception and what went wrong with the supposed chosen one.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against new stuff. I’m probably one of the only people in the “toxic” side of the Star Wars fanbase kind of excited for where Star Wars goes next with the Acolyte, the Rey movie, etc. But they shouldn’t have initially marketed this trilogy as a continuation of the Skywalker saga if they weren’t going to follow through on that with their main character. That’s probably why they tried to be cheeky with their ending scene in this movie, so they could claim this is still the Skywalker saga, but it just doesn’t work for me unless there’s some level of truth to Rey’s claim.

But, hey, at least both sides seem to be somewhat satisfied with this alternative idea!

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I dunno, when I was in the theater in 2015 and I heard him say “What girl?” I genuinely thought that was supposed to be a hint that he was familiar enough with some girl that could have done this. There are countless others on the internet that felt the same way. Clearly Colin Trevorrow thought the same thing. Remember, this reveal we’re crafting is meant to tie together the entire trilogy and make it feel like this was planned out all along. The fact that we already are emphasizing how linked they always were through the Force means it would be a shame not to take this opportunity. We don’t have the luxury of creating our own supplementary material here.

That was such a small nudge in TFA that I don’t feel it needs expanding this late in the story. Maz also asks Han “who’s the girl?” and Han gives her a troubled looked. People on the internet also hanged on to that for countless speculation, as well as countless other hints such as “the supreme leader is wise”. In the end a lot of these “hints” ended up as nothing more that what’s in the text, with no need to expand beyond that.

I also don’t like the idea that Kylo’s interest in Rey in previous films comes from some visions we never see. It makes their relationship far less personal, and it specially messes with TLJ, their whole interaction is the best part of that movie and it only works because their bond comes as something unexpected to both of them. It also messes with the big reveal, Kylo says Rey has no part in the story and she’s nothing, he can’t possibly believe that if she’s “the girl” she’s been having Force visions all this time. This doesn’t tie things together, it breaks them apart.

And besides, as I said, the information in these scenes is supposed to be specifically new information given by Palpatine to Kylo, so no, it doesn’t make sense for Kylo to go on a tangent and reveal he’s been dreaming of Rey all his life.

The line I added “Our paths have always been intertwined." is sort of a small nod that idea anyway if that’s your chosen head canon, but it leaves it open as a conclusion Kylo only took after Palpatine’s revelations. And the reason I replaced that other line is because it doesn’t make sense for Kylo to say “Palpatine wanted you alive before you chose to be a Jedi”, it contradicts everything else he’s said. The whole point is that it doesn’t matter that she chose to be a Jedi, that she’s destined for darkness either way, and he explains later that Palpatine only “wanted her dead” in so far as he was testing Kylo to be the superior heir.

Take a look at my last post. As hiventon pointed out, 9 times out of 10 Rey’s father would think her mother cheated on him in circumstances like this. There really isn’t any room for fear to be involved. Not unless her mother was barren, which isn’t worth stating to make the fear angle work because that would actually make Rey a positive thing and something to celebrate for 90% of couples. I think what I’ve got there is a short enough blurb to explain why a couple would sell their own child. And after that, they aren’t mentioned again, as they shouldn’t be.

Yeah it makes sense that the father might think she cheated, but this strange implication is something we need to avoid, not lean into. I don’t think the implication that Rey’s parents had marital problems because she was raped by the Force is something that fits a Star Wars movie. That’s why I think it’s best to keep it vague, saying neither of her parents expected a child leaves things ambiguous enough, and we already know they didn’t want a child either, since they sold her off for drinking money, so this is just expanding on that.

For you, a well-versed fan in the lore, the direct reference to Vader immediately spells that part of her birth out too much. For others who don’t know as much, I think it’s a sufficient and more relevant hint. Remember, the only thing that is confirmed to fans who understand the lore is that Rey is a birth just like Anakin. That just means she’s practically another chosen one, which should be a good thing! Palpatine’s part in all that hasn’t been revealed yet. Perhaps this is the reason the newest part about her birth coinciding with Palpatine’s return should be removed so we save that for the actual reveal.

I think if anything it’s the opposite, only someone familiar with the lore would understand the Vader reference at all, otherwise they’d be more confused, the reveal should work and be explainable all on it’s own. It makes more sense to leave the reference to Vader until the hangar scene, where we start using direct terms lifted from the prequels, and at which point the reveal has been spelled out in full.

The fact that he’d suddenly be having real-time Force skype sessions with her would be unsettling regardless of if he was having brief visions of her in the past. And, as we know, these sessions don’t stop with Snoke’s death, who claims to have instigated them, so clearly there is more happening here.

Also, he can still be having visions of a girl like her only to find out she’s nobody of true importance except for what she can potentially offer him - thus he believes that’s why she was being shown to him. He wouldn’t mention it in TLJ because it goes against his argument. It’s only in TROS when Palpatine tells him about the fact that both Anakin and Rey that he puts two and two together to realize that they share the same power in the Force, so it makes sense that the Force would be showing her to him. He shares it in this conversation at last because it bolsters his own argument that they are destined to work together.

Ultimately, you aren’t giving me any alternatives here for something he could say in this part (you didn’t give enough content in your last draft for the space here).

I’m willing to take a look at the bit about her parents only because I think giving any sort of characterization to them is a bad idea. But I fundamentally disagree with your part about Vader. It’s not in the “lore” it’s directly stated by Shimi: “There was no father.” We need to invoke this decades-long mystery again so that we can answer it, and this is the only way casual fans could possibly remember it. The way you currently have Kylo describing things sounds like adoption.

I still don’t see it as something that really adds anything, it only messes with Kylo’s character in TLJ, and adds an irrelevant layer to the revelations that make it harder to follow. All just to explain why a boy was interested in a girl.

Yeah, you can rationalize how it can all still make sense, but to me it’s similar to implying Luke knew Rey was a Palpatine during TLJ, it just messes with their entire dynamic.

And “lore” is not something tucked away in some novelization, is everything that gets explained about the universe. This includes Anakin’s conception, someone who doesn’t remember it would just be more confused, that’s what I meant. Even if we’re building off of previous movies it’s still better that the core concepts are explained on their own.