The Starlight Project Addendum: The Rise of Skywalker (Freeform Brainstorming Session) — Page 13

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Leia’s modified flashback will allow us to demonstrate this concept quite cleanly, too. Having that much power means you need that much more resolve and strength in your spirit. Which is what sets Rey apart from the likes of the Skywalkers that fell to the dark. “Some things are stronger than blood.”

Now I just need to figure out a way to re-write the flashback voiceover in such a way the conveys my last paragraph.

“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia knew that a light as strong as her own could cast a terrible shadow within her. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day it would be picked up again… by someone with the spirit to face that darkness.”

I confess I haven’t been following this thread, but I have strong feelings about a TRoS edit.

I think Hal9000’s “Rey Nobody” edit is great and should be the foundation upon which future edits are built. However, there’s still a lot that’s broken about TRoS, so below are ways I would attempt to fix it:

1. First, Hal’s Act 1 & 2 are really strong, but Act 3 is still where it falls apart. Palpatine is a genius and a master manipulator, yet his motivations are completely confusing and nonsensical in TRoS. Act 3 should be streamlined in order to be consistent with this keen intellect as demonstrated in previous films. Quite simply, he should be aware of the Dyad and is merely trying to lure both Rey and Kylo there so he can absorb their powers. He lures Rey through her need for belonging. As it stands, it’s Palpatine who is surprised and caught with his pants down. It should be the opposite so that Palpatine always has the upper hand (until the very end, of course).

2. Second, Kylo needs to be a stronger villain. Kylo’s threat should be maximized because TLJ set him up as the main bad guy of TRoS. The idea from the outset that he was being manipulated all along makes him look weak and pathetic. That Kylo and Palpatine are trying to outplay each other should be obvious, but it shouldn’t be so obvious that Palpatine is winning. Ideally, it would even be best if Kylo and the Knights of Ren played a hand in cloning Palpatine, but that would probably be too ambitious of a change.

3. Lastly, the “whiplash” moments of the film should be diminished or removed, i.e., Chewie’s dead then not, C3PO has his memory wiped then restored, Kylo’s dead…then not…then dead…then not…then finally dead for good. I mean, seriously? Not only does this nonsense make the film feel janky and unsatisfying, it also makes it feel as if there are no real stakes.

Most of those points are simply too ambitious for what resources we have at our disposal. I will say though, for #3, that TLJ is guilty of giving you a certain impression and then doing a 180 on it, as well. Luke is gonna take his lightsaber! Nope, he just threw it away as a joke. Leia just died, oh no! Nope, she can use the Force in space. They found the master code breaker! Nope, they just got tazed. Snoke is such an incredibly powerful big bad! Nope, he got duped and he’s dead. Luke just saved the Resistance in a way where everyone lives! Nope, he’s dead. There’s just as much whiplash; granted, it doesn’t rotate back and forth like it does for Kylo. But there’s nothing we can do about that.

The only one that can be fixed really is Kylo’s independence as a villain, and I think we’ve got that somewhat nailed down at the moment. Palpatine encourages him to take the Sith throne and kill Rey. In original TROS, he, for some reason, wants the Sith throne WITH Rey. This is a complete 180 of his character motivations that we left off with from TLJ.

By having him simply give the same proposal that he gives Rey in TLJ (destroy the Sith and Palps, make something new) it goes a long way for his character. He is actively refusing both of Palpatine’s commands to him. It’s clear that, even if Rey refuses to accompany him to Exegol, he’s still intent on destroying the Sith and commandering their fleet for the First Order. He probably only raises his lightsaber to strike her down on the Death Star wreckage because he’s given her so many opportunities to quit being a Jedi and join him. It’s clear to him that she’s a Jedi at heart and he doesn’t like the Jedi just as much as Palpatine.

EDIT: Also, I’m not sure if you realized this, but your first two points contradict each other. Palpatine cannot be one step ahead of Kylo while Kylo is also outsmarting him as an outstanding villain in his own right. We have to pick one or the other. I prefer that Kylo outsmarted him.

Alright, I’ve figured out a way for Luke’s correction about the Skywalker lineage and Rey’s purpose to not be a complete stop to Palpatine’s schemes and machinations during Rey’s confrontation with him. We can still have stakes in that confrontation.

“What are you most afraid of?”

“Myself…”

“Because you’re a Palpatine? The Force alone made us, to end him.”

“Final lesson. Rey… Some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi…"

And later…

“Long have I waited… I never wanted you dead. I wanted you here, Empress Palpatine. You will take the throne. It is your birthright to rule here. It is in your blood.”

“I haven’t come to lead the Sith. I’ve come to end them.”

“As a Jedi?”

“Yes.”

“No. Your hatred, your anger. You want to kill me. That is what I want. Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you, as all the Sith live in me. You will be Empress. We will be one.”

This way, Palpatine starts his conversation with Rey with his initial lie, that he influenced the Force to create her. Once he realizes that Rey doesn’t buy into that crap anymore, he uses what Luke just told her against her. So the process of this movie will have two lies (stretched versions of the truth) given to Rey originating from Palpatine, and her final resolution:

1. “I am the reason the Force created you, so you are rightfully mine.”
2. “Yes, your purpose designated by the Force is to destroy me. But because of the dark in you, that is exactly what I want to have happen. You will become a Palpatine regardless.”
3. “No, I am a Jedi. I am a Skywalker. The Force is stronger than your lies and manipulation.”

If we could, I’d love it if her conception coincided directly with the moment of Palpatine’s resurrection. This would of course require the concept that he DID truly die in ROTJ, and his spirit was summoned from the netherworld of the Force along with all of the other Sith spirits at a later date. But like you said, I’m not sure where exactly we could place this information. We’d have to modify Kylo’s dyad-duel with her. Probably his lines close to Rey saying “Stop talking.”

But then the concern would be that it might be too obvious before Luke’s own reveal that her true purpose was to destroy him.

EDIT: Something like the following -
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never wanted.”

“Don’t!”

“But no father of yours had any part in your conception.”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny.”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Palpatine’s resurrection sent shockwaves through the Force.”

“Stop talking.”

“He used that power to his advantage.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

The only point of contention is the current canon novels which state that he transferred his spirit before his body even died in the reactor shaft of the Death Star. At least this way Anakin actually killed Palpatine. It’s only because of his followers that he returned, and then a new chosen one was created.

But this time, Palpatine takes the approach that he only ever informally did with Anakin: being his father. He hinted at a more direct connection, but never capitalized on it. With Rey, due to her abandonment by her terrible parents, he knows he can twist the truth behind Rey’s own purpose as a creation of the Force.

So in this version Palpatine is lying and the force alone created Rey/Anakin? Or did whatever dark ritual/experiment Palpatine did cause the force to react and he’s just taking credit? I think I prefer the second. Also, I would stick with the original dialogue, since kylo is trying to convince Rey of this lie that she’s destined for evil. Saying she’s a reaction to Palpatine’s ressurection kind of waters down the reveal. I like the new Luke dialogue, though. Makes Palpatine telling Rey his plan actually make a little sense. And I think it would be a shame to lose the bit about her parents abandoning her because of her dark power, that feels like something that would truly hurt Rey in the moment.

It’s the second, yes. What Kylo describes in these scenes is what Palpatine told him about Rey and himself after he asked “Who is she?” in the intro. Maybe we can make this clear on his first line instead of talking about pushing her in the desert?

I do agree that a little bit more of justification why Rey’s parents were such assholes wouldn’t hurt. But ultimately, they are irrelevant to this story, as TLJ says. This movie needs to be explaining Rey’s own characterization. We can assume the reason they abandoned her is because of the unnatural circumstances around her birth as well as any strange Force powers she exhibited as a child.

I never had Kylo outright state she is the result of this reactionary Force energy, either. It’s implied, sure, but that is still saved for when they are in the hangar. I also made it vague just how much of a hand he had in utilizing that power to serve his own means. We’re trying to make this as devastating as possible to Rey without shutting the door on the idea that the Force alone made her to stop Palpatine, which is the ultimate conclusion - her being a Jedi and a Skywalker by right.

While I definitely agree that her parents aren’t relevant at all, I think including that line does a lot for Rey’s self doubt, and that instead of her thinking that she was abandoned because her parents were assholes (which they still are), she can now believe that she was abandoned for a reason, because there is something evil inside her. Which is cemented in her head when she stabs kylo, causing her to go to the island. This also makes the Skywalker’s acceptance of her mean a little more. But it can also just be implied and her parents never mentioned.

Well, they still do need to be mentioned! Don’t get me wrong. The first few lines are about how her mother became pregnant with a child she never wanted, and there was no man with her at the time that could have done such a thing.

Please leave it ambiguous whether Palpatine did or did not actually have any role in the creation of Anakin or Rey. That way, conversations like this can continue and be had by anyone who watches instead of having the edit lock in one or the other theory.

I think the only time I use language that indicates one of the two for sure is true is with Luke: “Because you’re a Palpatine? The Force alone made us, to end him.” I can simply remove the word “alone” to allow both interpretations to still stand - “The Force made us, to end him.” That sentence could be true even if Palpatine had a hand in their creation, because as we later know he wants Rey to kill him. That being said, I think for a satisfying conclusion most of the evidence should point to Palpatine lying and stretching the truth. But in terms of it being outright stated which version of events is true, you either have to believe space Satan or a ghost of a dude that really shouldn’t know one way or the other because he wasn’t around for these events.

I’ve also figured out a way to make it clear that what Kylo is telling her may be unreliable:

“Palpatine told me the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"He influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. You were his chosen heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"The Emperor only wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

I’ve also found a way to keep Rey’s parents fearing her for her strange existence and possibly her unexplainable dark power:

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never wanted.”

“Don’t!”

“They feared your nature. Your conception had no father’s hand.”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

I like all of those changes. I can’t wait to watch the whole trilogy again with all these edits.

Let’s put everything together in one place (along with indicating what needs to be cut and where)

The edit would be almost entirely regular Ascendant v4 throughout. However, 3 things need to be borrowed from Rey Nobody:

1. Reinstate Palpatine’s: “The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural.” As this is now a reference to a scene that is integral to the plot.
2. Both (2) references to Rey recognizing Ochi’s ship removed.
3. Rey saying that Palpatine killed her parents in front of Finn (with the shot of BB-8 mirrored, possibly an AI Finn line instead of the whispers since even Luke will now be admitting that they were all created to destroy Palpatine - this isn’t supposed to be something sinister until it’s revealed to be).

And, if we want, Finn’s ADR line “He wanted her alive” could be reinstated. Though the nice thing about our other changes here is that we would have no idea as the audience that Ochi was assigned with looking for Rey up until this point between Finn and Poe, so that’s a reveal in and of itself.

Ideally, somebody would also be kind enough to modify Rey’s vision in TFA with a ship that looks more different than Ochi’s. 😉 We already know the ships ARE technically different models between films, but they do look similar enough for people to have spotted that in the trailers.

Then the following are all of the dialogue changes:

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never wanted.”

“Don’t!”

“They feared you. Your conception was not of any father’s doing.”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny.”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“When Palpatine was summoned, it caused a great disturbance in the Force.”

“Stop talking.”

“The result was his greatest opportunity.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“The Force showed me glimpses of a girl like you long before we met. When we first fought, in the forest, the power inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself not only to me, but to the Emperor… just as he’d intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Our fates have always been intertwined."

“No…”

"I’ll come tell you why.”

—

“Palpatine told me the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"He influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. You were his chosen heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"The Emperor wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

—
“What are you most afraid of?”

“Myself…”

“Because you’re a Palpatine? The Force made us, to destroy him.”

“Final lesson. Rey… Some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny, if you don’t face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And the war will be lost. There’s something my sister would want you to have.”

—

“Leia’s saber.”

“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia knew that a light as powerful as her own would cast a terrible shadow within her. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day it would be picked up again by someone with the spirit to face that darkness.”

—

“Long have I waited… I never wanted you dead. I wanted you here, Empress Palpatine. You will take the throne. It is your birthright to rule here. It is in your blood.” (We’d remove “our blood” because they don’t share the same blood. Fortunately, that would be an easy cut because the camera switches perspective only for when he says that.)

“I haven’t come to lead the Sith. I’ve come to end them.”

“As a Jedi?”

“Yes.”

“No. Your hatred, your anger. You want to kill me. That is what I want. Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you, as all the Sith live in me (we’d reinstate his original line at the beginning since it hints at Rey’s new origins). You will be Empress. We will be one.”

“All you want is for me to hate but I won’t. Not even you.”

“Weak. (Cut back at the end of Rey’s line about her parents) Your master, Luke Skywalker, was saved by his father. The only family you have here… is me.” (Everything after this point would be unaltered Ascendant v4).

That all sounds great to me. This scene will go in the rewrite hall of fame next to the TFA crawl.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

The only point of contention is the current canon novels which state that he transferred his spirit before his body even died in the reactor shaft of the Death Star. At least this way Anakin actually killed Palpatine. It’s only because of his followers that he returned, and then a new chosen one was created.

I think I like the idea that Palpatine returns immediately after his death in ROTJ because if he can be resurrected after 10 years, what’s stopping someone from resurrecting him in the future? Palpatine survives because he has a whole clone operation on exogol prepared for this moment, and without a backup, his spirit has no where to go at the end of TROS and dies for good. But I do like the idea that Rey is a reaction to Palpatine’s return, so idk.

Hmmm… I hadn’t considered that. I think the thing we’ll have to assume is that the Force ghosts behind Rey are holding the Sith spirits inside of Palpatine’s body. So the lightning doesn’t just send them back to the netherworld, it destroys them all, permanently. Not sure how to make this clear, though, besides the Sith scream we already implemented into Ascendant.

I think the truth of the reveal is that Palpatine did indeed do something to create Anakin and Rey, but in reality they were a counter to whatever he did, and are just creations of the force. Palpatine then believes that he is their creator because he’s narcissistic and thinks that he has complete control of the force. That way, the canon timeline of events lines up. This can all stay ambiguous, though. The dialogue we have now doesn’t refute this either, so idk if it warrants a change.

I modified the two lines by “Stop talking” already to be a bit better. Like you suggested, the reality is probably a blend of the two. Palpatine’s return caused an imbalance in the Force, which deemed a necessary response. In his hubris, he thinks he has such a mastery of the Force that he can control what the Force creates as a reaction to himself, and have it belong to himself.

I really like the latest draft, however I feel the ideas don’t really flow from one to another, and it’s adding too many extra details that muddle the core concepts. Here’s my attempt at streamlining the dialogue:

"I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders with a child they never expected.”

“Don’t!”

“But they had no part in your conception…”

“I don’t want this!”

“…and they feared your nature.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny.”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“When Palpatine cheated death, it sent a ripple through the Force.”

“Stop talking.”

“The result was his greatest opportunity.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“When we fought for the first time, in the forest, the power inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself to the Emperor… just as he’d intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Our paths have always been intertwined."

“No…”

"I’ll tell you why.”

—

“I know the rest of your story.”

“Tell me.”

"Palpatine influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. You were his chosen heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"The Emperor wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

I really think the reference to Vader is necessary. It gives a purpose to Vader’s mask looming in the background besides cheap fan service. It also clues more casual fans on to what’s happening assuming they’ve seen episode 1. Plus, the line there needs to be extremely short, just 2-3 words. The line after “Don’t!” is currently too short as you have it. The paragraph after the heroes capture also needs to be a lot longer than that. There simply isn’t enough content there to fill out the space required. The purpose of the sentence you removed is to hint at a connection they’ve always shared through the Force, just as his remarks before we left to the heroes capture are meant to hint at her connection to Palpatine. They both get clarified at the end.

I do really like “the result was his greatest opportunity”. But I think the change you made before that raises some questions. Some people going into this edit would be under the impression that Palpatine cheated death immediately after Vader threw him down the reactor shaft. That is the canon answer, after all. So with the way you’ve currently worded it, it implies that Rey should have been born immediately after ROTJ, which we of course know isn’t the case.

I’m also unsure why you’d remove “Palpatine told me the rest of our story.” It’s to remind the audience to take what he says with a grain of salt.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I do really like “Our paths have always been intertwined.” But I’d probably replace it with “fates”. Come check out my last posted draft to see some of the changes I’ve made according to your recommendations.

I was referencing a discussion we’ve previously had. If you compare the ships side-by-side between movies, there are subtle differences. In canon, yes, they are meant to be the same ship. But there is a certain level of plausible deniability already present.