Nev, does Rey really have to be connected to the dagger and Ochi and the ship? I feel like all of this can be changed, and trying to stick with it really just limits what you can do with this movie. You said you wanted to perform a full appendectomy. I think THIS is what needs to be removed here.
Why don’t we cut out all of the plot bullshit and make these scenes more character-focused conversations? To me, talking about Rey’s parents being killed by Palpatine, or some prophecy that she is tied to, is not compelling or relatable. It’s all exposition. There are no “scenes”, it’s all just plot. Set piece to set piece. I’m truly wondering if the conversation was just more general, like Kylo making an argument for the dark side, if it could be worded in a way that is actually compelling for an audience. At least more compelling than trying to communicate a complicated previously unknown origin story for Rey. Are there ways that we can make this conversation go in a way that can make people think about their own moments of weakness? To think about times we wanted to take the quick and easy path to get what we wanted? Or how we might really be bad people and we’re just fooling ourselves by trying to avoid that truth?
I just think this could be a great opportunity to put a little more meat on the bones of this movie. If you think about a lot of moments in the other Star Wars movies that we love, oftentimes the things the characters talk about or say are things we can somehow apply to our own lives and experiences. Like when Yoda talks about the Force. We might not believe in the Force, but think of the way Yoda describes it, “life creates it, makes it grow, it’s energy surrounds us, and binds us. Luminous being are we, not this crude matter”. I think a lot of people can’t help but feel something spiritual when they hear this. It’s vague enough to be applicable to us regardless of our religious views. Or this conversation on the dark side:
Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
Yoda: You will know. When you are calm, at peace, passive.
See? There’s no lore or plot mumbo jumbo. Yoda’s not talking about kyber crystals or philosophies of the Ashla and the Bogan. It’s the good side and the bad. I feel like a lot of fans heard this conversation about the dark side and couldn’t help but relate it to their real life experience in some way. “Would I be able to recognize the difference between doing the the good thing or the bad?”
My initial pitch for the duel convo basically boiled down to Kylo telling Rey that she has power, but can’t control it. And that he could help her learn how to. But I’m wondering if it could be something that is a little more clear or consistent with how the dark side is portrayed in the rest of the franchise. So, what if Kylo said stuff about how Rey is screwing herself over by trying to bottle up the dark side within her?
No idea for specifics, just spitballing, but here are some examples of lines he could say:
You’re not ready to face Palpatine. You don’t have enough time. But the dark side can get you where you need to be.
You’re holding back.
The dark side is a part of you. If you don’t accept it, it will tear you apart. Without it, you are unbalanced. You’re losing yourself. And you will lose your friends too.
I can’t find the video, but there’s one Rise of Skywalker review that discusses the Chewie “death” scene. In it, the reviewer states that if Rey could’ve used the dark side and succeeded at what she was trying to accomplish, it would’ve made the potential of her falling more believable. Even though we can’t really change that, I think we can get a similar idea across with what we’re given. I think we (and through the film, Kylo) have to frame Rey’ hurting and potentially hurting her friends as a product of her inability to accept the dark side within her. She’s holding back, bottling it up. And because of that, it erupts at the worst moments. She can’t accomplish her goals. And during the Force bond duel, you could even have Kylo reference Nev’s version of their forest duel in TFA, where she tapped into the dark side and actually defeated him. Proving his point.
You could even frame their encounter on Pasaana all as Kylo intentionally testing her. When he is flying towards her, he could say, “Do it” or “Show me” in his cockpit. When the Knights of Ren see Chewbacca, maybe they could even say something like, “The bait.” All of it was just to show Rey how unbalanced she is. She’s strong but she’s a mess. The dark side is the quick and easy path, and Rey is out of time to train (which would tie into her obsession with training more at the beginning of the film). Even though I think the film is better off with the removal of the clearly stated time period they are racing against, I do think having the sense of a race against the clock that the movie has helps as another argument for why Rey might give in. She’s out of time to train, she’s not strong enough.
And you can even tie the McGuffin’s into this. We already kind of have with the dagger whispering to Rey, but what if the whispering started off unintelligible, but by the time she reaches the Wayfinder, we can hear actual words. Maybe some of it is actual directions, like, “Come. Follow. Higher. Closer.”, but maybe we could also hear the Sith code being recited hypnotically, or pieces of it. Or maybe words that sew more doubt into her. “Unworthy. Not ready. Unbalanced. Lost. Weak. Alone.” Stuff like that. I could even picture a version of the approach where the whispers are now a chorus of load shouting, yelling over each other, almost symbolic of anxiety or someone’s inner voices feeding into their insecurities. Just to the point of being overwhelming, Rey grabs the Wayfinder and… silence. Relief. But just as she thinks she is free, the manifestation of her insecurities appears before her. And then she fights it, and when Dark Rey sneers at her, we can have it say “Weak!” in a sneering tone to match. The whole quest and encounter should just be digging into Rey’s doubts and insecurities.
While I don’t think any new revelations should be given about her parents, Kylo could maybe even suggest that her parents may have given her up because they were afraid of her (Like his parents may have been afraid of him).
And that ties into another thought I had. What could make the new dialogue scenes even greater is if we added some subtext to it. For example, Kylo might be going on and on about Rey’s problems, not committing to the dark side or whatever, but we know that he still also struggles with that. Even after everything, he still feels the pull to the light. His parents have been like an anchor, keeping him from being pulled into the riptide of the dark side despite his best efforts.
And maybe that ties into what he is offering Rey that is different than Palpatine. If she joins Palpatine, she’ll go full dark. But if she joins Kylo, maybe he think they can achieve some misguided view of balance. She can be his anchor and he can be hers. Kylo might be thinking, “maybe that’s why I still feel the pull to the light”. If she shifts closer to the dark, he’ll shift closer to the light. They’ll find peace, he’ll finally be at peace. And that might even help set up this idea Nev is beautifully playing with m Kylo’s conscience (in the voice of Han) staying his hand the moment before he kills Rey. He thinks Rey is gonna fix his problems, but the solution to his inner peace is actually within himself.
Nev, I actually was initially surprised you wanted to drop the dyad idea, at least explicitly, but I’ve realized that his opinion on that actually perfectly lines up with what I’ve been saying on this post. So yeah, now I agree with Nev that maybe Kylo and Rey’s connection doesn’t need to be named per se. Maybe even when Palpatine first gets a taste of their Force bond, you could change his lines from “A dyad in the Force. A power like life itself. Unseen for generations” to something else. Those first two sentences are said on screen but Palpatine’s face is out of focus so perhaps it could be changed. But I like the idea that Palpatine zaps them, feels it, and is like, “What the hell is this? I’ve never seen anything like this.” I just like the idea that despite all of his power and planning, Palpatine would fail to comprehend the possibility of a bond between two people, enhanced by the Force, being so powerful.
Anyway, I’m sorry I just keep saying the same stuff over and over again. Maybe it’s just me, and I can stop if it’s getting annoying. I just feel like the solution is in simplifying things, and I worry that trying to invent a new elaborate backstory for Rey is missing what is important in order to make Rey’s journey in this movie more relatable and compelling.