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Ahsoka (live action series) - general discussion thread — Page 13

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I watched all of Rebels, and the Ahsoka show is still a disappointment.
The casting choices for all of the Rebels characters are a disappointment compared to the animated voice which was much more emotive. Perhaps this is due to different factors; experience, direction and writing.
Sabine was a much more likeable character in rebels, yes she was a bit OP for her age, but in this new show she and a very unlikeable personality and every scene she’s in is grating and I want to skip it.
Hera seems to be just there because Filoni created her. She also doesn’t act very much like a general and should be demoted for her irresponsible behaviour.
Other have said Ahsoka is as bland as a block of wood, and I would agree. The animated version was much more interesting and had more depth.
As a rebels fan, the two dark Jedi are more interesting than anything in this show.
Also Thrawn looks more like Elon and not I high ranking imperial.

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I don’t think this show is perfect by any means, but it’s pretty good: solid mid-tier Star Wars with some particularly high highs. I’m personally going to enjoy the ride, let the show wrap up and sit with it for a while before I start putting my faneditor’s hat on.

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I’m traveling so I have limited connectivity and time. I’ll explain this later with examples and clips if I can find them;

For me personally, this is by far the best thing to come out of Disney’s Star Wars. The pacing being one of the best parts. Scenes with normal conversational dialogue and time to breathe. Long shots with architecture and atmosphere. I’ll elaborate in a day or two.

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Can’t wait to hear your full thoughts, Anchorhead, but I think I am in complete agreement. And this is from someone who hasn’t watched Clone Wars or Rebels, and many of the characters were complete unknowns to me.

The pacing is really what drew me in. It doesn’t rush to get to “the good stuff”, it plays out like, well, a story. In each scene I learn something about the characters, not just plot, but how they think. To me this is saying a lot considering what we get with much of the films/series today.

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I have a bit of time tonight, so some more specific thoughts. They’re a bit scattered as I’m jotting them down as they come to me.

Anakin:
For me as a non-Prequelist, Hayden finally now looked like someone who embodied the mannerisms of Vader and I could definitely see him becoming Vader. I’ve never once, in 25 years, seen or thought of him as Vader. It just did not work at all for me. I most certainly do not see that in any Prequel clips I’ve ever watched. In fact he’s always seemed like a terrible choice. Turns out it was really just more bad writing and directing by Lucas. That all changed in episode 5. To me, Hayden was able to redeem himself as an actor as well as the character. He IS Vader.

Put the characters in the right hands and let actors do what they do best and it can make a VERY big difference. It certainly did for me with Hayden. Like I mentioned to a friend, when he said “you lack conviction” just as he’s trying to kil her - that felt 100% like a Vader moment. Same with his matter-of-fact explanation of things to her. Also his not coddling her is interesting. When she tells him “I don’t understand” , his response is “that’s your problem” and he takes off running without her. He’s no nonsense with her. It’s an interesting dynamic. I particularly liked him saying how it bothered him when soldiers were killed…”of course it does”. His last line to her is perfection, like the visit meant something, but wasn’t as serious as she may have imagined. It really was a lesson disguised as a fight - “there’s hope for you yet”. Man, that is depth of character we’ve never had before.

Hera:
I’m thinking she may be my favorite of the cast. She speaks and behaves like an actual person. I’ve watched episode 2 three times. Hera and Sabine in the hospital is the highlight. Hera speaks to her like friends sometimes do. Her answer to Sabine is painfully honest when Sabine frets over how she , as she puts it, let a mission “go sideways”… “Well, you’re both difficult” and again with her answering Sabine; “She doesn’t want my help”…”yes she does”. That’s how people speak to each other. That felt real.

Same with her extended conversation on the ship after having searched for Sabine all day - she has a sort of defeat in her voice when she says ”Huyang….where are they?” She isn’t so much asking as she’s letting on that she’s worried and losing hope. That defeat in her voice comes up again later when she asks Ahsoka moments after she regains consciousness - “where’s Sabine”.. Outstanding work by Winstead.

Ahsoka:
She’s very stoic through most of the series. I’m fine with that. She’s not the most dynamic by any stretch, but that’s who she is. We’re catching up with her later in life and she’s become very mature. With that in mind, I think her time with Anakin in the World between worlds changed her.
She seemed lighter, less stressed. There are a few scenes after where she’s a bit different.
One where she’s outside the ship and bangs on the window …”hey!…get in there”. She’s showing emotion she has been bottling up prior to that moment.
The second one where they’re in the whale mouth and she says “I have no idea if this is going to work”…”no idea”. When she says the second time “no idea”, she’s smiling for what feels like the first time in the series. She’s lighter, almost happy.

It’s late and I’m exhausted. I’ll address the other characters and scenes later.

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Now that there are only 2 episodes left here’s what I’m hoping to see in the final 2 episodes. I’d like to see another appearance from Hayden as Anakin, either during a flashback or having him return as a force ghost. I think that’d be a great scene for both Hayden and Rosario to act out a reunion between the 2 characters where Ahsoka gets to directly confront Anakin about becoming Darth Vader and getting an explanation from Anakin. I don’t need this but it would be really nice to have.

Next, I’m hoping Thrawn finds out that Darth Vader was Ashoka’s Master and has a confrontation between those 2 characters about it. I also want Ezra to get a lot of really cool moments, and have the show clarify what relationship he and Sabine have (are they going to keep them as having a brother and sister type relationship or are they moving them into romantic territory as Rebels flirted with that concept earlier on before deciding against having a romance subplot between them. I’m not too worried about getting a bunch of cool action sequences, but I’m wondering if the show is leading up to either Balon betraying Thrawn, or Shin turning to the light side as there are a lot of moments in this series of her appearing conflicted.

Next, I want Hera to escape her subplot with the New Republic by the end of episode 7 and convince them to actually ready a fleet against Thrawn. I’m also hoping that they’re unable to stop Thrawn from returning to the galaxy. Finally, I want a full Star Wars Rebels reunion for all of the surviving characters. That means finding the budget for Zeb to appear in the final episode, either as an off-battle cameo or with Hera asking him for help with Thrawn. They managed to have him appear in Mandalorian Season 3 so I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to at least have him appear here. I really want to see Ezra and him reuniting as they had a close bond on that show. It’d be so cool if the final episode had a complete reunion on the battlefield between the surviving cast of Rebels. I’d also love to get a cameo from Freddie Prince Jr. as Kanan either via flashback or Force Ghost. I’m pretty confident that we’re not going to get a complete resolution to the Thrawn plot to set up for Filoni’s movie. But so far I’m quite enjoying Ahsoka I don’t think it’s a perfect show I think the first and 5th episodes specifically had really bad pacing problems, but I’m confident the show can stick the landing especially since the final episode is being directed by Rick Famuyiwa as he’s proven to be the best live-action director that Star Wars has for TV (Outside of Andor)

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Other than “memmber berries” I can’t see why this show would be exciting to the average viewer…or any fan who was wanting something that stands on its own. People are crying over Hayden showing up,.flashing into Vader or just SEEING Thrawn. What else is being highlighted? Where’s the story that had to be told? Fans are declaring it the best thing ever just because they saw Hayden in Clone Wars armor. THAT gets a 10/10??? Like…even if he didn’t say anything all that important or really serve a necessary purpose for being there…it automatically gets high praise?

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While I’m familiar with Rebels, I’ve never watched more than clips. I wouldn’t say Ahsoka is excellent, but I am enjoying it for what it bring. Specifically…

I like the music, which just feels like vintage Star Wars.

I also feel like this show is consistently trying to be creative. Sometimes it just ends up being weird, but in a universe full of battles that rehash stuff we’ve already seen, it’s kind of refreshing to see attempts at galaxy hopping, layering of force mythology, and even space whale/squids.

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Fan_edit_fan said:

Other than “memmber berries” I can’t see why this show would be exciting to the average viewer…or any fan who was wanting something that stands on its own. People are crying over Hayden showing up,.flashing into Vader or just SEEING Thrawn. What else is being highlighted? Where’s the story that had to be told? Fans are declaring it the best thing ever just because they saw Hayden in Clone Wars armor. THAT gets a 10/10??? Like…even if he didn’t say anything all that important or really serve a necessary purpose for being there…it automatically gets high praise?

That’s more or less my impression so far. It’s been a slog for me. Sabine reads as a real moron rivaling Bail Organa, and the titular heroine feels stiff and boring. It was nice to see Hayden, but it doesn’t impress me in and of itself. If it had been a 15 minute special with just those snippets I think they’d be just as effective and enjoyable as they are in their context as part of this story.

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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Octorox said:

I don’t think this show is perfect by any means, but it’s pretty good: solid mid-tier Star Wars with some particularly high highs. I’m personally going to enjoy the ride, let the show wrap up and sit with it for a while before I start putting my faneditor’s hat on.

I would watch and thoroughly enjoy an Octorox fanedit of Ahsoka, no questions asked.

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Fan_edit_fan said:

Other than “memmber berries” I can’t see why this show would be exciting to the average viewer…or any fan who was wanting something that stands on its own. People are crying over Hayden showing up,.flashing into Vader or just SEEING Thrawn. What else is being highlighted? Where’s the story that had to be told? Fans are declaring it the best thing ever just because they saw Hayden in Clone Wars armor. THAT gets a 10/10??? Like…even if he didn’t say anything all that important or really serve a necessary purpose for being there…it automatically gets high praise?

I’ve been wondering this myself. I think there’s a few other things that give people the feeling of novelty:
*a bunch of lightsaber duels in live action, consistently
*white lightsabers and orange lightsabers
*some dark jedi that look cool and are mysterious in what they think (so far)
*going to another galaxy (even though it’s very similar to the normal one)
*weird looking gold tech
*focusing on the nightsisters a little more
*the main characters are mostly aliens (even though they’re basically human) and are much more brightly colored than most SW main characters
*there are a bunch of Jedi that apparently survived order 66 including Ahsoka and Baylan and we’re hearing slightly more about them
*Sabine is a Jedi who apparently can’t even use the Force
*cool looking zombie Thrawn troopers

All of this could be neat, it’s just executed poorly. But people don’t notice the execution, just the novelty. There’s always that thing now, “At least it did something different!”

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Rotten Tomatoes have posted an “exclusive sneak peek” for episode 7 of Ahsoka tonight:

https://twitter.com/rottentomatoes/status/1706685258643435616 (30 second video clip)

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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When I first read the 2 sentence plot blurb for episode 7 I felt a sense of dread, that ended up being unwarranted. It made it seem like the episode would be half focused on Hera and the New Republic but they resolved it within the first 7 minutes. Deus Ex Organa is what I’m calling the resolution to the dumb and stupid plotline, but I’m fucking glad it’s over. Just having 3P0 show up on behalf of Leia who lies about the mission being sanctioned just proved how much of a stupid conflict this was in the first place. The only thing this mission does is waste time and unless that 1 senator ends up being a part of the imperial remnant it should be excised from any fan edit of the series.

The episode actually starts with Ahsoka training with a recording of Anakin and some more emotional resolution from Ahsoka. Rosario Dawson is way more expressive as well which is really good. Now this is the Ahsoka I remember from Rebels and the Clone Wars and she continues acting this way through the entire episode. It looks like it really was an intentional choice for her to act wooden in the first half for a character arc, but it doesn’t excuse those first 5 episodes of her acting so reserved. We either needed more moments like this throughout the first 5 episodes, or they should’ve made it clear it was her trauma causing her to act this way.

After the opening, the action barely lets up. We get a flight out of a minefield, and a dog fight through the debris of dead Purgil. A chase scene, a fight between Sabine and Ezra vs. the Raiders and Shin, finally a fight between Ahsoka and Balon, and then Ezra, Sabine, and Ahsoka vs. Shin and Thrawn’s forces. This episode also did a good job of showing off Thrawn’s intelligence. He realizes the fighters have no chance of finding Ahsoka through the debris field and will only end up getting killed, so he pulls them back to save some of his forces. He uses the Nightsisters to pin Ahsoka’s location and sends troops after her and Sabine/Ezra. After they reunite he realizes his forces lost so instead of letting them all die he has them retreat because they did what he needed them to do, keep our trio distracted, and buy time for the transfer of materials.

I thought it was interesting how Balon separated from Shin after giving her one last piece of advice. His goals definitely do not align with Thrawn or Shin who seems to want to get power and favor with Thrawn. I fear this is a subplot that might be doomed to not be fully resolved because of Ray Stevenson’s tragic death. The action is a step above what we’ve previously seen from this series with the Ahsoka and Balon rematch being even more fast-paced than their first fight, and we get a cool chase scene with Ezra and Sabine before they fight against the raiders and Shin. Seeing Ezra fight without a lightsaber and just using the force was really cool and finally getting the reunion between Ahsoka and Ezra was great. I wish the entire series was as well-paced as this episode because it shows that this could’ve been a much better show than what we ended up getting. Still, this gives me hope it can stick the landing.

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Show just continues to be boring. Stupid republic plot is resolved. Seems it was just a filoni excuse to include his oc.
All the action has no stakes. Silly Ezra and the dolly pollies. Thrawn just standing around stroking his moustache.
He has no screen presence whatsoever, none of the characters do, except Balan.

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This show is the definition of 20 minute episodes stretched to 40+ minutes.

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yoshif8tures said:

Show just continues to be boring. Stupid republic plot is resolved. Seems it was just a filoni excuse to include his oc.
All the action has no stakes. Silly Ezra and the dolly pollies. Thrawn just standing around stroking his moustache.
He has no screen presence whatsoever, none of the characters do, except Balan.

Live-action Thrawn could be better, I’ll give you that. The voice is solid (obviously), but something about him just feels “off.” That’s definitely a character that shoulda been recast for the transition from live-action to animation.

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Thrawn has the voice of course but it seems like he’s acting with a lot heavier makeup on that is actually the case. Strange effect. This episode was weirdly structed like the rest of these shows, again suggesting the chapter breaks are arbitrary. It had a bunch more action though I guess. For a show about Ahsoka I don’t feel like I know anything more about her than in the prior shows… which wasn’t much. She’s suddenly lightened up as if something meaningful happened but nothing did. I don’t understand why the story so far (getting to Ezra) wasn’t just parts 1-2 so they could do something meanginful with the cast on this new planet against Thrawn, exploring his situation, the witches, etc.

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At this point I just wish they’d stop with the New Republic scenes. They have been so frustratingly underwhelming (just to me):

Caston said:

New Republic laziness and ineptitude yet again? (and the writing for the New Republic too!)
 

Mon Mothma: “Do you have Morgan Elsbeth?”

Hera (instead): Nearly, we just missed them. If your Senators hadn’t delayed us last time, we’d have like caught them in time - and both Morgan Elsbeth and the Dark Jedi would likely be in our custody.

Mon Mothma: “Do you have evidence of Imperial Remnant?”

Hera (instead): Yes. The two Dark Jedi that boarded a New Republic ship, killed many of the crew and freed the prisoner Morgan Elsbeth (who previously gave up information about Thrawn to Ahsoka) have just been missed; but we know they are using a high powered Hyperspace Ring to apparently go find Thrawn. The same Hyperspace Ring whose engine parts were supplied by Imperial Remnant or those loyal to the Empire (and announce themselves as such: “For the Empire!”), whose location we found out about from the memory cell of a droids sent by those Dark Jedi. Our ships’ sensors have readouts of that Hyperspace Ring and we also have testimony of the New Republic pilots. In 5 minutes: Ahsoka is going to follow the two Dark Jedi and Morgan to the next galaxy over, using these Hyperspace traveling “StarWhales”. The same “StarWhales” we know that took Thrawn and Ezra disappeared years ago during The Battle of Lothal; a well known Rebel engagement vs the Empire, and mention of these “StarWhales” can also found in the Jedi Archives. Luke may be interested in this y’know; Thrawn, Imperial Remnant, Dark Jedi, missing Jedi, Force-attuned “StarWhales” with long history of hyperspace abilities. Why am I answering these insipid questions to you? Have you been hit on the head or taking some stupid pills since Andor? Why are you acting like this? Oh, you’re now an ancillary character in a Filoni series. Filoni… of course. Got it.

Mon Mothma: “You and Ahsoka Tano are to return to Coruscant with the Fleet. The Senate oversight Committee is going to determine whether your command should be germanely suspended. You are going to need her testimony to help you. And yes, I too wish the scenes with the New Republic were written not as an afterthought with little substance, weight, or realism, and lacking in awareness of the past events. Has anyone seen Tony Gilroy? (Just asking for a friend).”

 
continuing on in episode 7: at Hera’s court-martial hearing on Coruscant…

Senator Xiono: “An incident [on Seatos]? Yes. But this report reads like a child’s fairy tale. Jedi, False Jedi, star maps, star whales, distant galaxies. Honestly, are we to believe any of it?”

(No holo-recordings on Rebel ships boarded by the Dark Jedi?, or autopsies of New Republic officers killed by the Dark Jedis’ lightsabers? Ahsoka is a Jedi - does he not believe it? Perhaps he should go ask Luke? Star maps and star whales: they were present when Thrawn disappeared at the Battle of Lothal, and have been seen again taking Ahsoka to the place where Thrawn and Ezra ended up. What is like “a child’s fairy tale” about this again? Other than the writing for New Republic Government scenes? Mon Mothma hasn’t aged a day since the events of Andor; some 14-15 years ago, despite all she has been through, and ended up leading the New Republic itself, in post-Empire times. Her skin regime is strong).

Hera: “Morgan Elsbeth was leading a coordinated effort by the Imperial Remnant.”

Senator Xiono: “Objection. “Imperial Remnant” Such a sensational term. There is no proof of any coordination between the scattered and dwindling numbers of Imperial forces.”

Captain Teva: “What about the droid attack on the wookiees? What about the conflict on Mandalore?”

Senator Xiono: “Exactly my point. Gideon was a warlord acting on his own. There is no proof of a greater conspiracy and thus no immediate threat to this Republic.”

(2 important prisoners freed from Republic custody with proven links to Imperial Remnant. Secret bases built on Mandalore, high tech Mandalorian suits of armour, cloning, force ability experiments etc. All the work of one wanted and escaped Imperial Warlord operating outside his prior ‘allocated space’. All the quoted text above. Is all this intentional, or merely taking the viewer for idiots?)

Hera: “If Thrawn returns, that will change quickly.”

Senator Xiono: [Scoffs] “If.”

Hera: “I don’t know what frightens me more, the possibility of what might happen, or your unwillingness to see it.”

Senator Xiono: “I’ll tell you what I see. I see a General who abuses her authority for personal gain, and I will not stand for it. I motion that General Syndulla be court-martialled for disobeying a direct order.”

Enter Deus Ex 3PO with Leia cover reasons.

 

I feel better after that unhinged rambling! It is just so disappointing to see the New Republic Govt continued to be written and shown in this way, including in the Sequels too. Yes, the cycle of “rise and fall”, the “threat of danger” and all that. Yet the lazy way the New Republic Govt are being written and portrayed, to me, is a disservice to what came before, for what the Rebellion we’ve seen in many forms over time, including the OT, fought for. It even jars compared to, or appears in, some average Star Wars content such as Ahsoka. Andor proved that the more political or bureaucratic scenes can be done well, be illustrative and engaging, even to the point of wanting to see more. Intriguing characters, with compelling and clever story arcs. So why not anything approaching this for in the New Republic Govt setting too?

Is there a “New Republic Government” or “New Republic Era” thread on here I can tut to myself in, or go vent in? So I can just shut myself up in here? 😉

 

A few queries re episode 7:

The Night Sisters can pinpoint Ahsoka’s location, but not Ezra’s location? Was there a reason for this I missed?

What were Ezra and Sabine doing to warrant the attention of Baylan and Shin again, the Samurai Raiders, and then the Night Troopers? What would have happened if the Raiders and Imps hadn’t engaged them, and taken those losses? We’ve been told about Thrawn the tactical genius plenty of times, and yet he still hasn’t managed to kill Ezra despite all the forces at his disposal and also the night sister magic, in 10 years? I think I’ve missed something and need to re-watch the episode?

We are then sold this fight as a tactical win for Thrawn? Thrawn claims “time” is important here. What were Ezra and Sabine going to do otherwise? Weren’t they just simply riding away with the Noti in the other direction? Why do the Night Troopers remain so loyal to Thrawn that they chant his name in hangar bays when he appears, when he is willing to sacrifice them, (and their fellow solider before them?) in quite needless skirmishes like this? It doesn’t quite add up, and more of those oft-used “Show, don’t tell” issues that frequent Star Wars. Such use was more accepted when it was on a budget, with the tight shooting deadlines of years ago, but now? Not so much.

(Ezra and Sabin update each other about recent events off-screen, with just some minor quips on-screen? That was a little disappointing, I thought they could have had some fun with that, a lot of fun yet also poignant material.)

Why do the Night Troopers not fire when Shin orders them to “Fire!” at Ezra and Sabine? And wait for a second or two instead? Why does Shin and Ahsoka just stand there doing nothing while we see other action scenes taking place in the circled wagon scenes, and then the camera cuts back to both of them, still just standing there looking at each other? Is this another editing issue like the gap between Ahsoka interrupting Huyang on the ship in the space battle? This can be difficult to catch, given the number of pauses in dialogue (and also staring into space) for this series.
 

These are minor gripes and issues. It was an okay episode overall, New Republic Govt section apart. Shin and Baylan still stand out as being the highlight of the series so far. I liked the mention of Ventress, but a pity there is still no love for Dirge! That last episode next week has a lot of work to do. It would appear this season 5 of Rebels has been mostly set-up for the Filoni film, or maybe a season 2 of Ahsoka, or merge with The Mandalorian season 4, before then?

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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I’m enjoying the show so far and personally enjoying the connection to Rebels, but I keep finding myself asking the question of where do these people go between now and the sequel trilogy?

I think it was mentioned earlier by someone else, but where’s Ashoka and Ezra in those movies. The takeaway from those was that Luke is the only one left and there is no other Jedi’s left and he’s the only hope.

Where as the Ashoka show implies that there is at least 3 other Jedi if you count Sabine. What becomes of them not to show up in the sequel trilogies.

Connecting all of this is what I’m most intrigued by and maybe we come to learn that through either this, The Mandolorian or the BoBF.

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Ideas:

  • Get them stuck in the other galaxy for awhile
  • Kill them
  • Kylo thought he killed them but they were in hiding
  • They were elsewhere doing other stuff and never appeared onscreen (much like Ahsoka in ROTS)
  • The World Between Worlds
  • Some combination of the above

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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I would love to see Huyang join Baylan in an endeavour to establish a remade Jedi/whatever-you-wanna-call-it order in the new galaxy.
Baylan is clearly driven by the thought of a new, improved order, and Huyang has fallen out of time with the fall of the Jedi. It makes sense for them to start over again.

“Vader! Hologram, now!”

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Peter Pan said:

I would love to see Huyang join Baylan in an endeavour to establish a remade Jedi/whatever-you-wanna-call-it order in the new galaxy.
Baylan is clearly driven by the thought of a new, improved order, and Huyang has fallen out of time with the fall of the Jedi. It makes sense for them to start over again.

Too bad Ray Stevenson died. Baylan has proven to be the most popular character in this series.

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fmalover said:

Peter Pan said:

I would love to see Huyang join Baylan in an endeavour to establish a remade Jedi/whatever-you-wanna-call-it order in the new galaxy.
Baylan is clearly driven by the thought of a new, improved order, and Huyang has fallen out of time with the fall of the Jedi. It makes sense for them to start over again.

Too bad Ray Stevenson died. Baylan has proven to be the most popular character in this series.

This is not an adventure befitting a movie or TV series anyway, but it would be a nice ending for their character arcs throughout the Ahsoka series.
A sort of fairy tale ending.

“Vader! Hologram, now!”