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Was that really the first Death Star in ROTS? — Page 2

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@ YIYF - Thanks, mate.

And, to hopefully put the nail a little bit further into the coffin, here's a scan of an interview George Lucas gave to Starlog Magazine in August, 2005.

http://www.st-v-sw.net/images/VisAid/Starlog337-Lucasrules.jpg
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Originally posted by: TheCassidy
And the quote above came from someone that works for Lucasfilm, not a self-proclaimed obsessed Star Wars fan like Nathan Butler.

How much more clear would you like it?


Lucas himself acknowledged the EU's canonocity. That's about as clear as you can get. And BTW, what's all the hatred in this board everyone seems to have with EU? It expands on the story. Star Wars would be pretty boring at times without the EU.


I don't hate the EU. I hate miserable little twats who insist that the EU belongs in the same league as the films. Boba Fett is dead - deal with it.
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Cassidy, the EU DOESN'T belong in the same league with the films. In fact, if you were familiar with their canon policies, they put the EU directly below the films in terms of deciding what is what. To Lucasfilm, all works not contradicting the films are canon, but the films take precedence when a continuity issue arises. So, it IS all the same story, but on different levels.
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Did you even read the interview excerpt above?
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Yes, I did. In fact I have it on the wikipedia article for the EU. He put it as best as I can imagine. Yes, he considers it part of Star Wars. But, personally, he doesn't deal in it. Though of course he did when he wrote the stories for the holiday special and the ewok movies, and will be a heavy contributor when the live-action series begins work, and in writing the scripts for the 3D clone wars.
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Originally posted by: TheCassidy
Verbatim from Lucasfilm magazine, AWK:

"Gospel, or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history — with many off-shoots, variations and tangents — like any other well-developed mythology."
.




That, was written by Lucas Licensing employee Allan Kausch and Lucas Licensing Publishing Editior Sue Rostoni, the first official declaration from anyone at a Lucas company for 15 years

I typed "Lucasfilm Canon " in my browser and found that and this


Lucas to Cinescape #62 p49

"there are two worlds here" "there is my world which is the movies and there is that other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe- the licensing world of the books, games and the comic books, They dont intrude in my world, which is a select period of time, (but) they do intrude in my movies, I dont get involved in the parallel universe


Canon Considered the main story of Star Wars, this is essentialy the six films produced by Lucas and Lucasfilm

Continuty The official continuation of Star Wars storyline in EU products...............
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How about this quote by Rick McCallum from the ROTS DVD press screening, when he talks about the live-action TV show? I think it gives you a good idea of what George really thinks of the EU:

"He envisions somewhere like 100 hours between Episode III and Episode IV with a lot of characters that we haven't met but have been developed in other novels and other things."
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Look, we got onto this because of the EPIII Death Star debate, which, has been categorically proven to be the same as the Death Star in 'Star Wars.'
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Possibly. But Lucas' statement was an offhand comment. I'm sure if he knew about the stories in the Jedi Academy books, he would gladly accept that explanation.
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Possibly? Possibly?

There's no possibly about it little man. He fookin' says it's the Death Star from 'Star Wars' - I don't give a shit what the Jedi Academy books say, and neither does Lucas.

The movies and the books and seperate, non-interchangable entities. Deal with it, sunshine.
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Nope, they are considered one cohesive story. Ask Nathan Butler. He knows EVERYTHING about Star Wars. I mean, the guy has EVERY single EU book, comic, video game, etc. He knows. And after listening to his extensive radio shows, you learn a lot.
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Oh, shut up already about Nathan Butler. How many fucking times do you need it exlained to you that if it doesn't come from Lucas it isn't canon?
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I don't. Lucas himself has acknowledged the EU. I don't see the problem everyone seems to have with it. He clearly said he has no problem with it in the interview Mr. Bungle posted. I think what you are referring to as "canon" is what Lucasfilm calls "G-canon," which are the films, novelizations, and radio dramas. EU is called "C-canon." It's all canon, just on different levels. Nathan knows, as his 1,000 + page timeline is based solely on their canon policies.
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I write much of the stuff on wikipedia,


Yeah, if you could, please stop doing that. Wikipedia is incorrect enough as it is. Stop adding to it.

And goddamn, how did I know this would happen. Dude--the reason EU is called EU is because it's NOT CANON. There's a reason there's a completely different name for it. How you can read Butler's shit so thoroughly, and then completely miss the most IMPORTANT DISTINCTION HE (and LFL and everyone else) is making is totally beyond me. Lets compare this to anatomy, alright? Here's the analogy.

Canon is this one guy. He's in the house, standing around, reading the paper. Let's call him John. This one guy has a cousin, who just got back from college. The cousin just came inside the house and started reading the paper with the one guy. Let's call this college kid Jerry. This would be like you saying "They're releated, so John IS Jerry. They're the same guy."

Yes, they're related. Yes they're in the same family. But they're not the same person, not even closely. One (John) is the son of the creator of the universe. The other is the son of the creator's merchandising whore siblings (Jerry) They are not the same person. Hell, even BUTLER admits this. And it appears never to have occurred to you that Butler MIGHT want to put so much emphasis on trying to get the EU to be accepted as ANY form of "canon" simply because he's put so much time INTO the thing it might just legitimize the 15 or so years he's wasted on that fuckin timeline of his? Because he's actually gotten to WRITE some of that EU at some point? Why do you think "G-Canon" and "C-Canon" were invented as terms a few years ago? To sucker the few remaining people who couldn't take the crushing blow to their fantasy network that what happened in their head isn't REALLY WHAT HAPPENED for everyone else.

And has been stated, LUCAS HIMSELF says that's the Death Star. THE Death Star, now you wanna do some retconning and stretching to make it fit in YOUR personal vision of Star Wars, that's cool. It's a fictional universe, NONE of it ever really happened, which is what makes these canon arguments so futile in the end. But your mental-gymnastics to make it fit with a bunch of shit books you read during a bored, Star Wars Jonesing period, aren't LAW. They aren't canon.

It's really about that simple.

And seriously, stop writing Wiki entries.


The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Bizzle, I understand. I'm merely saying that, technically, Lucasfilm considers it all one story. There's no arguing to it. They consider it one story. Lucas may not, you may not, but Lucasfilm the company does. I mean, we all have our own personal canon. Myself, I can't stand those Dark Empire comics that bring Palpatine's spirit back in some clones. Do you honestly think, though, that Star Wars would be as rich and interesting of a universe without the EU? People would know very little about characters without the EU. Take Star Wars: Clone Wars. It is an interesting expansion on what you see in the films. Lucasfilm considers it an expansion on the main story. Hell, even the back cover explains that it bridges the gap. And I believe I write factually accurate wiki articles, for your information. And if I make a mistake? With any mistake I make, my fellow editors correct, and I do the same to them. That is the way a wiki works, and the great thing about wikipedia. And as for Nathan. He's a history teacher. He likes the kind of thing he does. His Star Wars writing is merely an extension of his interest in history.
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There aren't levels of canon. It's canon, or it's not canon. Now, I don't really care if the EU books are canon or not. I do admit that without those novels and comics, we wouldn't know the names of so many characters. I've read many of the comics, but I don't consider them canon. I don't think about what happened in them when I watch the movies. They're just fun reads. Let's step out of SW for a second, and consider others. All the Star Trek novels, for example (because I have such an extensive collection). There are some really great stories, but they're not going to change what happens in the show. They are stories that happen in the Star Trek universe, maybe even with familiar characters, but to me, they're just professional fan-fiction.

That's the same way I see the EU. Stories from the Star Wars universe. Professional Fan-Fiction. Next, you're going to tell me that what happens in Star Wars: Galaxies is canon.
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You have a balanced view of the EU, which I appreciate. Most here seem to have a grudge against it. Star Wars: Galaxies is player controlled. Only the basic story elements are considered canon by Lucasfilm, becuase it varies as far as the stories go.

Now, with Star Trek, I can accept that the books and such are not canon. That being becuase Paramount Pictures doesn't consider them canon. Lucasfilm, however, does consider all of the EU works canon, therefor I call them canon. It is fine to have a personal canon, I'm merely going by Lucasfilm when I refer to it.
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Do you honestly think, though, that Star Wars would be as rich and interesting of a universe without the EU?


Yeah.

And Lucasfilm isn't Lucas. Lucasfilm is a corporate entity, with different arms and interests for different purposes, designed to protect and create as much merchandising as possible. of course they're going to try and legitimize all of their product for people like you obsessed enough to care about the canonity of an entirely fictional universe. It means you buy more of it. But Lucas himself, the guy who wrote the story, the screenplay, and directed the movie, "Revenge of the Sith" says that Death Star is THE DEATH STAR. That's your answer.

And I still think you should stop writing wiki entries.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Yes, I know that. And please tell me why you think I should stop writing wiki articles? Your response would be interesting. I am factually accurate in my writing. You don't even know how I work.
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Yes, I know that. And please tell me why you think I should stop writing wiki articles? Your response would be interesting. I am factually accurate in my writing. You don't even know how I work.


Hang on, hang on...I wanna get a drink and a snack before I read the response 'cause this is gonna be good.
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For instance, this is one of my articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Holiday_Special

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanded_Universe_%28Star_Wars%29
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I didn't read the entire article, because I haven't watched the Holiday Special, but it was rather informative, Adam. Thanks.

One correction to make, though, a simple spelling error. The word is "Canonicity," not "Canonocity."
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“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Shortly thereafter, in the early '90s, Bantam published Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy. Widely publicized as the "sequels which were never made", Zahn's novels reignited Star Wars fandom and sparked a revolution in Star Wars literature.

I would substitute 'publicized' with 'hailed'. Other than that, a surprisingly good article.

War does not make one great.

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“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.