For film-out, they would most likely have sped up the footage slightly to fit within the 24fps rate of 35mm film.
No they wouldn’t If so, the original VHS and Laserdisc would’ve also ended up being sped-up
I’m rooting for you guys working on this, what’s the status so far?
I’m rooting for you guys working on this, what’s the status so far?
Thanks for asking! We’re still working on raising money, we won’t be able to start scanning until we have enough for both the scanning costs and shipping.
That said, we’re approaching $500 out of $700 (which only covers the cost to have it cleaned and scanned, but still a solid starting goal), so we’re getting there. The print is currently in Australia still, and once we figure out the cost for shipping it around everywhere we’ll update our fundraising goal.
If you want to donate, there are two PayPal links in the top post. Otherwise, stay posted! (You can also join RU.08’s Discord server if you want more direct updates)
For film-out, they would most likely have sped up the footage slightly to fit within the 24fps rate of 35mm film.
They did, Craig Good mentioned that Pixar at the time was using using an Avid Video Composer instead of an Avid Film Composer for the film out and because of this some shots grew or shrank by a frame on the film out.
For film-out, they would most likely have sped up the footage slightly to fit within the 24fps rate of 35mm film.
They did (sort-of), Craig Good mentioned that Pixar at the time was using using an Avid Video Composer instead of an Avid Film Composer for the film out and because of this some shots grew or shrank by a frame on the film out.
There’s no “speeding up” or “slowing down” of film, it’s shot how it is. You can run the camera slow or fast and get the result that when played at 24fps you get fast or slow motion. Toy Story was rendered frame-by-frame for standard 24fps projection.
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
There’s no “speeding up” or “slowing down” of film, it’s shot how it is. You can run the camera slow or fast and get the result that when played at 24fps you get fast or slow motion. Toy Story was rendered frame-by-frame for standard 24fps projection.
Agreed, however, when you compare both the Laserdisc and the DVD, if you overlay them both over each other in a side by side comparison (something I did in iMovie as a test), the laserdisc goes out of sync with the DVD very quickly. So yes you are right, the film was not “slowed down” or “sped up”. The film just gained and lost some frames in some shots on the film out. So yeah, it was rendered frame by frame for standard 24fps projection, its just that when Pixar were processing the film for celluloid, the Avid Video Composer caused the movie to gain and lose a frame in all of the shots.
Agreed, however, when you compare both the Laserdisc and the DVD, if you overlay them both over each other in a side by side comparison (something I did in iMovie as a test), the laserdisc goes out of sync with the DVD very quickly. So yes you are right, the film was not “slowed down” or “sped up”. The film just gained and lost some frames in some shots on the film out. So yeah, it was rendered frame by frame for standard 24fps projection, its just that when Pixar were processing the film for celluloid, the Avid Video Composer caused the movie to gain and lose a frame in all of the shots.
That’s not how it works, the digital format doesn’t have a frame rate. You render it out to a series of images which has no frame rate, it’s just 0000001.dpx, 0000002.dpx, 0000003.dpx and so-on, there’s no way for it to gain or lose frames in that process. The printer doesn’t know about frame rates, or for that matter audio - all it knows is that it prints frame after frame to a negative that then gets processed, and then a colour-timed interpositive is made later to strike prints from. The DVD and Laserdisc won’t be a definitive source, they are many reasons they may not have the same frame counts as they may have been edited on tape (they probably were) we’re talking about editing together a 10 reel movie, potentially adding subtitles or text over the image especially for 4x3 where credits or other text may be cropped out, potentially doing a scene-by-scene colour correction and editing it back together as well. Plus I don’t know what print they used when they made them, for all we know there were random lab splices in it that had to be removed physically, or it had other repairs made with frames removed.
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
Just donated a few bucks. TS is a childhood favorite of mine and I can’t wait to see the final result!
Just donated a few bucks. TS is a childhood favorite of mine and I can’t wait to see the final result!
Awesome, thanks! I’ll round things up at some point and get us to the big five-hundo 😄
Sent in a donation. Super excited for this project and I can’t wait to see it when it’s finished!
Sent in a donation. Super excited for this project and I can’t wait to see it when it’s finished!
Amazing, thank you so much!
This plus another donation from a Discord member (and a couple bones from yours truly) have pushed us to $510. Keep it up y’all! 😄
true, BUT I’ve heard the whole near vs. far field mix thing is a good deal overblown and that a lot of it was pushed by a single mixing studio that apparently wanted to use the idea to prop up their finances and sort of talked all the studios into the ‘critical’ need for it. I’ve read that many say that a lot of the claims pushed to get the whole thing going, upon further examination, didn’t really pan out like they claimed and some say the whole thing caused more trouble and even worse home results in the end, although it seems there is still some arguing over who is correct.
Yeah, it’s quite the hot topic in audio engineering circles. In this context, having as many audio options as possible is always best when all is said and done. It’s less convenient to get the Dolby 5.1 on the print preserved, but a lot easier to get the analog stereo track digitized using AEO Light— especially if the raw scan resolution is well past 2K. That would only be necessary if the scanner couldn’t (or simply didn’t) capture the analog audio along with the image scan or the sound on the capture was too hissy; unfortunately, LaserGraphics ScanStation units are kind of notorious for that. But all things in due time; I’m sure TristAndShout64 will cross that bridge when he gets to it.
Interesting, I’d never heard of AEO Light before. I wonder if it will give better quality audio than the basic Scanstation optical reader. Too bad it doesn’t appear to directly support DNG so will have to maybe batch the track area to TIFF.
Going back to the other topic of 5.1 audio, another option, although unfortunately not for a lot of movies, is to use the Cinema DTS audio. 1995 would be far enough back for this film to have one.
Going back to the other topic of 5.1 audio, another option, although unfortunately not for a lot of movies, is to use the Cinema DTS audio. 1995 would be far enough back for this film to have one.
I’m almost certain that Toy Story never played anywhere with Cinema DTS audio in '95, but it did receive a DTS LaserDisc. If someone can arrange a bit-perfect capture of the soundtrack, it’d be a terrific addition to this project.
“You missed! How could you miss-- he was THREE FEET in front of you!”
– Mushu
Going back to the other topic of 5.1 audio, another option, although unfortunately not for a lot of movies, is to use the Cinema DTS audio. 1995 would be far enough back for this film to have one.
I’m almost certain that Toy Story never played anywhere with Cinema DTS audio in '95, but it did receive a DTS LaserDisc. If someone can arrange a bit-perfect capture of the soundtrack, it’d be a terrific addition to this project.
Wait a minute, after checking the credits, you’re fucking right. Still less weird then the fact that Happy Gilmore getting a DTS Laserdisc period, but still though…
DTS and Dolby were at war for the digital cinema sound landscape at the time (as was SDDS); there were exclusives on all sides, with Sony (naturally) in the SDDS camp; Universal, New Line, and MGM using DTS; and Warner Bros. (with the exception of a single Steven Seagal actioner that used DTS) and Disney going with Dolby. AFAIK only Fox and Paramount used all three of the major digital sound formats at the time.
I’m a huge fan of the film, and Toy Story holds a special place in my heart. Being able to see it in 4K would be absolutely amazing!
Going back to the other topic of 5.1 audio, another option, although unfortunately not for a lot of movies, is to use the Cinema DTS audio. 1995 would be far enough back for this film to have one.
I’m almost certain that Toy Story never played anywhere with Cinema DTS audio in '95, but it did receive a DTS LaserDisc. If someone can arrange a bit-perfect capture of the soundtrack, it’d be a terrific addition to this project.
Hmm weird, the trailers for it had DTS!
I made a small donation, sorry I can’t offer more. I hope it makes its goal!
Going back to the other topic of 5.1 audio, another option, although unfortunately not for a lot of movies, is to use the Cinema DTS audio. 1995 would be far enough back for this film to have one.
I’m almost certain that Toy Story never played anywhere with Cinema DTS audio in '95, but it did receive a DTS LaserDisc. If someone can arrange a bit-perfect capture of the soundtrack, it’d be a terrific addition to this project.
When you say soundtrack, do you mean the one specifically from the DTS LaserDisc? Because I got the one from the Ultimate Toy Box DVD on hand if any of you guys want it for the project (The 10th anniversary edition has a weird subtle audio overlap for some reason).
I’m a huge fan of the film, and Toy Story holds a special place in my heart. Being able to see it in 4K would be absolutely amazing!
Agreed! Definitely will be better than the 4K blu ray we got, we’ll finally have the true version of the film as it was shown back in ‘95!
I’ve donated $10 - I always liked the way it looked on VHS and thought the DVD looked very flat in comparison
I’ve donated $10 - I always liked the way it looked on VHS and thought the DVD looked very flat in comparison
Well thank you very much! I added $5 to match another donation and that puts us safely at $570.
I totally agree with you on the DVD transfer- I grew up with that version of Toy Story, and there’s arguably an objective quality to it- what with it being a direct digital transfer of course- but I’ve fallen totally in love with the film version over the past several months. The color palette and film grain add so much depth and give it such a distinct look. The VHS is definitely my preferred way to watch currently, though I need to get another Laserdisc player so I watch it that way.
I’ve donated $10 - I always liked the way it looked on VHS and thought the DVD looked very flat in comparison
Well thank you very much! I added $5 to match another donation and that puts us safely at $570.
I totally agree with you on the DVD transfer- I grew up with that version of Toy Story, and there’s arguably an objective quality to it- what with it being a direct digital transfer of course- but I’ve fallen totally in love with the film version over the past several months. The color palette and film grain add so much depth and give it such a distinct look. The VHS is definitely my preferred way to watch currently, though I need to get another Laserdisc player so I watch it that way.
Agreed! The film version has a lot more vibrant colors and better contrast compared to the direct to digital transfer. It definitely makes the film look a tad less dated and a lot easier on the eyes, in a similar way to the early Pixar shorts, specifically Andre and Wally B, Reds Dream, Tin Toy, and the uncensored version of Knick Knack, which all had releases that used the original film reels for the DVD or Blu ray releases, most likely because the files were way too old and harder to bring back for a direct to digital release compared to Toy Story (if Pixar today compared the hardware for Toy Story to a Model T Ford, god knows what Pixar’s hardware would be like in the 80’s, the wheel?) My point is that those shorts look great on film, and after seeing the laserdisc and film version scenes from the bonus features on the Ultimate Toy Box DVD, I think the film will look astonishing as it was in theaters back in 95 when the reels finally get scanned.
I’ve just donated a dollar towards this scan. It’s not much, but as you said, every little bit counts.