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Violence

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Now, let me start this topic with a sad and enfuriating news I got a few hours ago.

My uncle (one of my mom's brother, she has 8 siblings) lives in a small town about 300 miles away from where I live, in which I used to spend vacation times until the late 90s. He is a farm owner, owning several cows, I'm not sure if he uses them for meat or milk, I'm not sure what exactly he did. Although Brazil is an incredibly violent country, that small town had a very low crime rate, people can let their front doors unlocked, walk around at night, and everything of the sort without fear of getting robbed or mugged or whatever.

Yesterday, at night, my cousin (his son) and his girlfriend were coming back to his home a few minutes after midnight, when three heavily armed men with masks surrended both. They went in, and tied up everyone (my uncle, his wife, my cousin and his girlfriend) in the bathroom, while stealing cash and other stuff.

For no reason whatsoever, the burglars stabbed my uncle four times, and ran away. He was taken to the hospital but died.

While everyone from my family is shocked and stunned, and the police is trying to get hold of those resposibles (still no major clues, they found some stuff on a trail a few miles away) - although I do belive it might have been someone who worked for him, or who knew him personally.

Now, I ask myself, why? I don't want any of the political discussions to the cause or solution to violence, that is not the point. What I don't belive is how people can be so mean, so cold hearted, so evil... This sort of thing is getting to be so usual here, that I belive this is how I'm going to eventually die, being murdered...

I could do as some people advised me, get away from this shithole while I still can, but the thing is, violence is not concentrated to this area, it's everywhere. It's on the US, Europe, Asia, it can happen anywhere. There are mean natured people everywhere, even those who don't pull out a gun or a knife might go on and insult people... Or bully... Or yell and curse at the traffic, or talk behind people on work...

Humanity itself sickens me, and it always have, those of you who had the unfortunate bad luck to discuss politics with me know that. More and more my nihilistic point of view proves to be the way to the truth. People don't care about each other, don't love each other, it's all about money, about sex, about getting ahead of each other, about killing before they kill you, it's about injustice, greed, violence...

Do you guys still belive we have any hope?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Man. I'm really sorry to hear that, Ric.

You have my sympathies. I hope the police catch those guys and put them away. Forever.

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You have my sympathies Ric, I live in a small town even here we can't get away from crime. Just last year a man was killed by the cops right by my house. In school there is tons of fight every day. Some of these people I can pick out and say that there going to spend there life in jail. While the crime rates are going down. We hear about them more. I will never own a gun because killing people is something I will never do. I hate people who want to kill because they are cowards.

I hope they get caught Ric I really do.
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This may not be any consolation, but we humans are basically just highly developed apes, and it's simply easier to give in to dark impulses and animalistic behavior than to try and think and behave rationally. Remember what Yoda said-quicker, easier, more seductive... and it's true! Greed and anger are powerful driving forces. The veneer of civilization is much thinner than most people realize, and we all need to understand NO ONE is truly "safe", no matter what propaganda is shoved down your throat. I think this incident proves my point. It is extremely cowardly to stab someone who can't even defend themselves-I think if nothing else, karma will get him back eventually.
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Karma is great I wish I could control a good and bad things the world would be peaceful.
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My God. I am truly sorry to hear of what happened to your family Ric. Both you and your family my sympathy.

Do you guys still belive we have any hope?


It may not be easy for you to hear at this time, but there is still good in the world. Just look at all people did to help the victims of Katrina. And look at India and Pakistan working together to help the victims of the earth quake. People do good things all the time. Look to the good that people do to see the hope. We can never lose hope. Ric if you lose hope, you let the bad guys win and become another victim of these three sick men that killed your uncle. There will also be sick people in the world doing sick things. But we can't just give up and let them control our lives. And giving up on life, hope, and good in humanity won't bring back your uncle or help your family. Do not surrender yourself to their sick deeds.


I hope the cops are able to catch these bastards put them behind bars for a long, long time.


Ric, you and your family have my thoughts and prayers.
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Please accept my heartfelt condolences, Ric... I'm very sorry to hear that story of outrageous and wanton violence...
Isn't it bizzare it occurred on All Souls' Day?...
Originally posted by: ricarleite
Do you guys still belive we have any hope?

Yes ...and no. There always be good people... but the same is true for bad ones.
Some idealists believe that "human race is eventually going to become so civilized and advanced that it will root out all bad emotions, behavior etc.". Do not follow that folly. Look in the past. Did anything change over the millennia? Farmers were stabbed back in ancient Egypt or Rome, in medieval Europe and so they are today... The only things that change are the weapons.
I saw the original theatrical release of the Old Trilogy on the big screen and I'm proud of it...
How did I accomplish that (considering my age) is my secret...
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Originally posted by: RRS-1980

Some idealists believe that "human race is eventually going to become so civilized and advanced that it will root out all bad emotions, behavior etc.". Do not follow that folly.


I agree this ideal will never be meant. But I think we should strive for it none the less. I don't think it would hurt to atleast try to be more advanced and civilized.
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Dude...in all honesty I can't really empathize your situation exactly....i've lost relatives thru self-inflicted violence but this is something very different and involves humanity instead of things internal.....I hope I never have to feel what I think your feelng now. I feel bad knowing that people everyday have to understand the feeling of someone they know being senselessly murdered. It's sick and no ones gets ahead.

I don't own a gun...my family has never had a gun in our house to my knowledge. I've never shot one, and hope to never unless it has to happen. I've never been hunting and really don't care to, i'll leave it up to those that do. But its just this necassary violence that spreads out past its moderated need. We need to find different ways.

Mostly everything I can say here has been said so far. Its just easier to give into our most basic instincts to be better and dominate thru whatever means and to those bastards that did this to your family (and those that do this insane shit all over the planet for no necasary gain) its what they think will show they are better. I personally believe someday we'll get past all this thru either simply evolution, laws, or just some event that makes us realize this bullshit needs to end.

I'm sorry if this seemed illogical but its just stream of thought talking.....

Hey look, a bear!

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My sympathies, ric. It's a really horrible situation, no doubt about it.

I'm very anti-human, so I won't add much except doom and gloom to this topic. I believe humans are neither innately good nor innately evil. Nature is neither good nor evil, yet it offers dazzling beauty while simultaneously demonstrating terrible destruction. And we're a product of nature, so how are we any different? Beauty and horror, both rolled up into one complicated little package. Such is man.

I'm a technology freak and I love change, but even I get scared that the world is moving too fast sometimes--too fast for a lot of people to keep up. Makes them do crazy things.

Anyway, sorry man.
Forum Administrator

MTFBWY…A

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My very strong condolences on the loss of your uncle, ric.

I've often wondered myself how people can possibly do such horrible things to each other. There are just a lot of sick people out there, so much in tune with looking out for #1 and giving into their own selfish desires that they pay no attention to the ramifications of other people. Let me see if I can explain this right. It's really hard to keep from falling into the trap of thinking, "I'm me, and the other people around me are just other people." It's easy to think this subconsciously since being you is the only thing you know how to do. And it's easy to forget that the person standing next to you has the same types of feelings and emotions that you do, and that he is the "me" of his own world. Even so (if that made any sense to anybody), I don't see how anyone could get disconnected with other people to the point where they could perform such sick acts. The only explanation is that they simply choose to block out everyone but themselves as deserving of compassion and possessive of feeling.

In answer to your question, though, I don't think most people are near that point where they simply choose to cut people off so much that they feel no remorse when they perform such grotesque acts. At least, I'd like to hope so...

I'd just like to close by reminding everyone to remember that you're not the only "me" in the world. Everyone is the center of his/her own universe, and through that person's eyes, you aren't the center. You could be just another person. Try to think of things through other people's perspectives, not just through your own universe.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Rik, it's all been said by the other guys here so I really have nothing to add except to offer my condolences, which is basically a useless act, but I offer them nonetheless (besides, I think you know my views on mankind already - we suck, but I hope we can one day not suck).

War does not make one great.

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First of all, I want to thank you all for your sympathies and condolences. I'm emotionally ok, but I'm transmitting those kind words to my mom and my cousins and my uncle's wife, who are the people who need the most support now.

Of all the comentaries about violence, the one that I found to be more interesting, is...

Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
DAMN, RIC, I'M VERY SADDENED FOR YOU. I HOPE THEY CATCH THOSE BASTARDS AND STAB THEM TO DEATH. I'M A FIRM BELIEVER IN "AN EYE FOR AN EYE; TOOTH FOR A TOOTH."


Now, I have always thought what I would do if something like this happened to anyone from my family, or friends (which I include in "family"), and I always had this idea of revenge and getting the people who did it and torturing them and killing them myself, and now that it happened, I think... what good would that be?

Where were the parents of the people who did it? They were probably absent, didn't give their child enough education and character not to do such a thing. What did they learn in school? They were probably bullies in school, learning nothing but to hate other people and that violence is the way to get thing - or maybe they even didn't go to school at all. Tehy were surrounded by people who had hate in their hearts, who taught that it's important to fulfill one's desires, not mattering the consequences.

I will always belive that criminal behaviour is not part of the human being, it is learned, it is shaped by outside factors. I mean, even if I was starving, living on the street, I would NEVER kill anyone, I'd most probably shoot myself than shooting someone else. Why do I behave like this? Why don't I just steal, or rob, or kill? Because I know it is wrong, because I feel it's wrong, because I know what that would cause to the other people, I know the consequences, I would FEEL those.

People who murder, do they think about it? What is in their minds? What has got into their minds that they have such a bleak view of the other human beings? Don't they think of the consequences? Don't they care? If they don't, why? What has got into their hearts that they don't feel anything? What has been done to their minds and hearts?

I do wish they capture those responsibles, yes, and do whatever is to be done. But at the same time those people are caught, I hope someone out there is caring for a small child and educating this child not to behave like these people did. Now I see that this is the only way to achieve peace, if we step out of this circle of hate and care about each other, if we take our children and show them the right path.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I really feel for you Ric. My brother went in his wheelchair to go grab some food, and when he was coming back, he was hit and killed by a drunk driver. The driver stopped long enough to figure out what had happened and then took off. I'm glad they found the bastard, but the punishment didn't fit the crime at all. 5 years probation and license revoked (I think for those 5 years).

I somewhat share in Davys view in the eye for an eye principle. Either the guy that did that to your uncle got too little discipline as a kid, or was abused severely. The point is, if you slap someone in the face because you think it's funny and then get slapped back, a normal person would say "Wow, that hurt! Is that what I did too that guy? That was pretty mean." But some people don't make that connection unfortunately.

It's f*cked up enough to not just rob a house, but to stab one of the people he was taking hostage out of spite means that guy is way beyond help. While I would like to see a person like that stabbed, sewn back up, given time to heal up, and then stabbed again, but it probably wouldn't matter. That person has screwed up his life so much, that there is no hope for him getting better. I'd say put him in the death chamber, but then again I'm from Texas.
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I'd also like to offer my condolences to you and you're family. I hope the rest of your family, especially those that were held hostage during all this, are able to get through this terrible ordeal ok.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Ric...

There are no words for this. I am genuinely saddened by your news. Even though we frequently disagree on things, I consider you a friend on this board. Know that you and yours are in my thoughts. I've not been feeling well the past couple of days (for whatever reasons), and won't be around much in the next few. I wish you...strength, if nothing else. While I do not think a better world will suddenly appear, I hope that one day we can all share a drink in happier times.
Nemo me impune lacessit

http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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Originally posted by: Anakin's Mannequin
I'd say put him in the death chamber, but then again I'm from Texas.


I like them to suffer maybe put them in the ironmaiden.

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Once again I'd like to thank you all for the support and the kind words, I really apreciate it. Thank you all for being so supportive, even for a person you never knew in person and most ptobably never will.

It was somewhat of a powerful lesson life taught me this week, and I wanted to share this lesson with you guys and make you reflect on some things such as violence. Let us hope nothing of the sort happens again to any of us here, and that we may do what is right to avoid such things in the future. Those of you with children, please, teach them always that violence is wrong. If our past is bloody and our present is rotten, let us build a better future.

For now, I think this thread has served its porpouse, unless anyone would like to go on and talk about the "violence" subject, for that we'll always have that thread.

I will resume to post as my older self, being all geeky and humorous and such, because, well, that's what I am, and nothing can take that away from me, except maybe a gun opr a knife.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I too wish to offer my condolences for this terrible tragedy. I could go on, but I think all there is to say has already been said.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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I thought you guys deserved to know what has happened regarding this episode.

There was this person who used to work for my uncle, at his farm I belive, and used to steal from him. He eventually found out, and fired him, but decided not to press charges against him, he just fired him. That person, filled with evil thoughts, would clearly not get any jobs later, and sweared he would have his revenge. He eventually met 3 other people who had the shared the same hate for all that is good, and planned their revenge, all of those were previously arrested before.

On that night they had some beers and consumed some drugs at a local bar, and went to my uncle's house. As they locked all the family in the bathroom, they stole some goods to make it look like a robbery, and told my uncle it was him, and that he was getting his revenge, and stabbed him four times.

Most things they stole, they eventually dropped off in the woods nearby, including some clothes. But the thing is, all of those clothes were clothes that were used by people who were in the prison, and they had numbers on them. By those numbers, the police was able to know the responsibles for that crime and capture them. The ex-employee who wanted revenge, two other men, and a minor.

Now, in Brazil you can do pretty much what you want and get away with it, so the minor is most likely to be released, and the other 3 guys will probably get 5 to 10 years, if they don't escape before that, which is VERY likely.

Now, that been said, the whole case has been solved, and this thread has served its porpouse, so I rather declare this a dead thread. Also, I ask for trollers here to respect my uncle's memory (I don't belive they will, so I ask for Jay to please lock this thread).
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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you have my condolences, ric. I run into this sort of thing all the time in my profession, and I'm sad to say that I've stopped asking why.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Okay now I am curious, what do you exactly work with? Lawyer? Police officer?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Sorry to resurrect this rather sombre thread, but I felt that this was the best place for this story. My younger brother works in Blockbuster and last week, after setting the alarm, he and his coworkers where leaving to go home when 3 guys wearing masks attacked them and dragged them back into the store. One of the guys was bashed over the head with some kind of club or truncheon while my bro and the other guy were pinned to the ground with large kitchen knives at their throats. The guys told them to take them to the safe, and to not even think about sounding an alarm, so my bro told them that in about 20 seconds the alarm which they had just set before leaving would be going off and suggested they let him disarm it. With the alarm disarmed, they took my brother (the only member of staff present who knows the combination to the safe) upstairs and held the knife to his stomach while he opened the safe. They then stole £5000 and left. Luckily, noone was seriously injured, but my brother is pretty shook up. I keep telling him he done the right thing, and acted calmly and cooly by taking control of the situation, volunteering his knowledge of the safe combination, warning the burglars of the alarm, etc (imagine what could have happened if the alarm had started going off and the thieves had panicked), but he still feels like a chump and is basically doubting himself and mankind as a whole. These pricks come in and take in 5 minutes what it takes him 5 or 6 months to earn, with no concern for the people they have to walk over to get it. It makes me sick.

P.S
A few days after, I remembered some of the discussions some of us have had in the politics thread, and I asked my brother if he thinks things would have panned out differently if there had been a shotgun under the counter. He said no because they rushed him at the door and he wouldn't be able to get to the gun in time. But he then said that maybe if he personally had been armed, he could have seen them off, or maybe if we lived in a country where it's possible the guy you are attacking has a gun, the thieves might not have chanced it, or if it was common knowledge that every Blockbuster store had a gun and it's staff were trained to use it. I don't want to get into the gun debate here, and we've already been through it to the point of exhaustion, but I just thought I would mention it here.

P.P.S Rik, if you want this post removed, let me know.

War does not make one great.

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First of all, I'm glad your brother is okay and that no one got hurt. THAT is the important thing, not the money.

I realize that this is a traumatic situation, and it's tough to act correctly when such things happen, but he did exactly what he had to do. While he should not doubt himself, as he acted bravely and correctly, I share his doubt on mankind. I have lost faith in it not only based on violent occasions such as my uncle's and your brother's case, but in how people act toward each other. It's all about satistying our own personal needs without thinking about other people. It's the abusive father, the tiranic boss, the bad teacher, the bully, the guy who cheats on his wife...

About the weapons issue, I could discuss it better on a different topic, but I have to say that if he had a weapon, things would turn out different. Not "could", WOULD. But would it be for better or worse?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering