Return Of The Jedi - a general Random Thoughts thread — Page 12

G&G-Fan said:

Luke’s plan to rescue Han makes complete sense when you realize the reason his plan is so complex is because he’s going out of his way to not have to kill Jabba. Because that’s what Jedi do. Negotiate, not kill.

His first plan is to use the droids as a bargaining chip. Lando is planted there so he can get them out after Han is freed, and they lose nothing. That fails. So Leia’s sent in to free him, but she’s caught. Crap. So Luke has to go in himself. He calmly tries to negotiate with Jabba one last time, but he refuses. He knew about the Sarlacc, but not the Rancor, which is why he’s surprised by it. He planted the lightsaber in R2 in case he was gonna be thrown in the Sarlacc pit. Because otherwise they’d nab it off him when preparing to throw him in. And thus we get the sail barge scene.

Luke’s plan isn’t actually needlessly complicated, it’s just that we saw the worst possible scenario because Jabba is stubborn and insane.

Well, sending in Leia automatically gets Chewie thrown in a cell. So Leia has to now extract Han and Chewie. I guess this could work - after all, they needed some way to get an audience with Jabba in the first place, and there was an open bounty on Chewie. But the problem is we just never know what the original Plan A was supposed to be, e.g. we don’t know how they planned on extracting Chewie if Han was successfully rescued. The answer is of course “somehow” (maybe Lando had keys to the cell). That’s fine, but it makes the plan feel arbitrary. I’m reminded of Palpatine’s nebulous plans in Phantom Menace, where again we only see contingencies and we must try to infer what the original plan was.

Also, I think Luke would prioritize showing up himself as Contingency Plan A, rather than risking the lives of both Leia and Chewie. Luke seemed to believe there was a reasonable chance a Jedi mind trick might work on Jabba. Perhaps he wasn’t so sure - but if he believed it had like a 50% chance of working, it seems attempting the mind trick would be the preferred option rather than first resorting to a plan that risked both Leia and Chewie.

I had always interpreted ROTJ to be implying that Luke and Leia were not even coordinating with this rescue plan. I thought they were acting independently. I interpreted the event as: Luke sends in the droids, which fails. Luke now decides to show up himself, but before he arrives, Leia and Chewie (acting independently) show up and get caught. Not sure who Lando was working with, but probably Leia/Chewie.

The plan might make sense - it’s just that it seems somewhat arbitrary to the audience, because we’re left in the dark about so many details. Like, did Luke know Jabba would head out to the Dune Sea for a theatrical execution? I guess so - it’s plausible Jabba is known for doing this, Luke is from Tatooine, Luke seemed to prepare for it by placing the lightsaber in R2, and Luke seemed really calm during the ride out there. But it’s also possible R2 had the lightsaber because Luke believed he’d be searched for weapons at the door. After the Rancor, Luke seems to have lost all hope in a peaceful outcome, so why not have R2 toss him the lightsaber then? The crowded interior of the palace seems better suited for a lightsaber massacre than out in the open. Maybe R2 just wasn’t present at that time. Okay, but what if R2 wasn’t present at the sail barge either? What if Jabba’s staff decided to assign R2 to some other duty instead of the sail barge?

This kind of elaborate planning that ignores all the unpredictable variables is common in movies in general, so it’s not specifically a problem with ROTJ. But there are some good bank heist or prison escape movies, where the plan is explicitly spelled out and all variables and contingencies are known to the audience in advance - which I feel makes watching it unfold much more interesting than watching it unfold when you don’t really know what’s going on.

Anyway, there are some other problems too. Like, we take it as a given that Lando was sent to infiltrate Jabba’s palace, and somehow managed to get hired as a guard. Fine. But shouldn’t Boba Fett recognize Lando? I mean, sure, Lando wears a mask that partially conceals his face (but not his voice), but it seems like a major risk to send in one of the few Rebel Alliance members who could be identified by one of Jabba’s regular hirees. I guess they just didn’t have anyone else capable of pulling this off, so they sent in Lando and just hoped he never had to take off his mask around Boba Fett. Or I don’t know, maybe Boba Fett isn’t there so often.

Finally, Vader is still searching for Luke at this point. You’d think Vader would be monitoring the situation in Jabba’s palace - probably via Boba Fett. Does Boba Fett recognize Luke when Luke shows up at the palace? Maybe he doesn’t (he only briefly saw him in ESB), or maybe he does and was trying to capture Luke before falling into the Sarlacc Pit and then promptly dying and certainly never escaping and going on to have further adventures. Maybe Boba Fett was just unsure how to proceed when caught between the conflicting interests of Jabba and Vader. But anyway I doubt any of that was intended in the writing. Lucas stated in an interview that Boba Fett was just basically a generic henchman in this scene - his earlier relationship with Vader and his role in setting a trap for Luke was seemingly not considered.

It seems like this movie forgets that Boba Fett was present for certain events in Empire Strikes Back.

Channel72 said:

G&G-Fan said:

Luke’s plan to rescue Han makes complete sense when you realize the reason his plan is so complex is because he’s going out of his way to not have to kill Jabba. Because that’s what Jedi do. Negotiate, not kill.

His first plan is to use the droids as a bargaining chip. Lando is planted there so he can get them out after Han is freed, and they lose nothing. That fails. So Leia’s sent in to free him, but she’s caught. Crap. So Luke has to go in himself. He calmly tries to negotiate with Jabba one last time, but he refuses. He knew about the Sarlacc, but not the Rancor, which is why he’s surprised by it. He planted the lightsaber in R2 in case he was gonna be thrown in the Sarlacc pit. Because otherwise they’d nab it off him when preparing to throw him in. And thus we get the sail barge scene.

Luke’s plan isn’t actually needlessly complicated, it’s just that we saw the worst possible scenario because Jabba is stubborn and insane.

Well, sending in Leia automatically gets Chewie thrown in a cell. So Leia has to now extract Han and Chewie. I guess this could work - after all, they needed some way to get an audience with Jabba in the first place, and there was an open bounty on Chewie. But the problem is we just never know what the original Plan A was supposed to be, e.g. we don’t know how they planned on extracting Chewie if Han was successfully rescued. The answer is of course “somehow” (maybe Lando had keys to the cell). That’s fine, but it makes the plan feel arbitrary. I’m reminded of Palpatine’s nebulous plans in Phantom Menace, where again we only see contingencies and we must try to infer what the original plan was.

Also, I think Luke would prioritize showing up himself as Contingency Plan A, rather than risking the lives of both Leia and Chewie. Luke seemed to believe there was a reasonable chance a Jedi mind trick might work on Jabba. Perhaps he wasn’t so sure - but if he believed it had like a 50% chance of working, it seems attempting the mind trick would be the preferred option rather than first resorting to a plan that risked both Leia and Chewie.

I had always interpreted ROTJ to be implying that Luke and Leia were not even coordinating with this rescue plan. I thought they were acting independently. I interpreted the event as: Luke sends in the droids, which fails. Luke now decides to show up himself, but before he arrives, Leia and Chewie (acting independently) show up and get caught. Not sure who Lando was working with, but probably Leia/Chewie.

The plan might make sense - it’s just that it seems somewhat arbitrary to the audience, because we’re left in the dark about so many details. Like, did Luke know Jabba would head out to the Dune Sea for a theatrical execution? I guess so - it’s plausible Jabba is known for doing this, Luke is from Tatooine, Luke seemed to prepare for it by placing the lightsaber in R2, and Luke seemed really calm during the ride out there. But it’s also possible R2 had the lightsaber because Luke believed he’d be searched for weapons at the door. After the Rancor, Luke seems to have lost all hope in a peaceful outcome, so why not have R2 toss him the lightsaber then? The crowded interior of the palace seems better suited for a lightsaber massacre than out in the open. Maybe R2 just wasn’t present at that time. Okay, but what if R2 wasn’t present at the sail barge either? What if Jabba’s staff decided to assign R2 to some other duty instead of the sail barge?

This kind of elaborate planning that ignores all the unpredictable variables is common in movies in general, so it’s not specifically a problem with ROTJ. But there are some good bank heist or prison escape movies, where the plan is explicitly spelled out and all variables and contingencies are known to the audience in advance - which I feel makes watching it unfold much more interesting than watching it unfold when you don’t really know what’s going on.

Anyway, there are some other problems too. Like, we take it as a given that Lando was sent to infiltrate Jabba’s palace, and somehow managed to get hired as a guard. Fine. But shouldn’t Boba Fett recognize Lando? I mean, sure, Lando wears a mask that partially conceals his face (but not his voice), but it seems like a major risk to send in one of the few Rebel Alliance members who could be identified by one of Jabba’s regular hirees. I guess they just didn’t have anyone else capable of pulling this off, so they sent in Lando and just hoped he never had to take off his mask around Boba Fett. Or I don’t know, maybe Boba Fett isn’t there so often.

Finally, Vader is still searching for Luke at this point. You’d think Vader would be monitoring the situation in Jabba’s palace - probably via Boba Fett. Does Boba Fett recognize Luke when Luke shows up at the palace? Maybe he doesn’t (he only briefly saw him in ESB), or maybe he does and was trying to capture Luke before falling into the Sarlacc Pit and then promptly dying and certainly never escaping and going on to have further adventures. Maybe Boba Fett was just unsure how to proceed when caught between the conflicting interests of Jabba and Vader. But anyway I doubt any of that was intended in the writing. Lucas stated in an interview that Boba Fett was just basically a generic henchman in this scene - his earlier relationship with Vader and his role in setting a trap for Luke was seemingly not considered.

It seems like this movie forgets that Boba Fett was present for certain events in Empire Strikes Back.

They were clearly working together as you can see in the deleted scenes of Return of the Jedi. Whether this is valid is up to you since they’re not in the final movie, but it shows the original idea when making the movie.

MooWaza said:
They were clearly working together as you can see in the deleted scenes of Return of the Jedi. Whether this is valid is up to you since they’re not in the final movie, but it shows the original idea when making the movie.

True. There’s also dialogue at the end of ESB that implies Luke and Lando at least are planning to meet on Tatooine. But I guess they never got around to it until 3 years later.

Before those ROTJ deleted scenes were available on Youtube, I assumed Luke and Leia/Chewie/Lando were carrying out two independent plans (coincidentally at the same time). That seemed like the only way to make any sense of the bizarre sequence of events.

So I guess Plan A was to just send Lando undercover and then send the droids to deliver Luke’s message. It’s unclear how Jabba was supposed to even communicate with Luke if Plan A worked, but whatever, maybe R2 had some comm device. So then Plan B was to send in Leia and Chewie. Leia needed Chewie to get inside the palace, but it seems that, once inside, Leia was supposed to just wait until everyone fell asleep and then unfreeze Han and sneak him out. It’s unclear how they planned to extract Chewie. Maybe that was Lando’s job? But then why couldn’t Lando just unfreeze Han and sneak him out without Leia/Chewie getting involved? Maybe they were afraid Han would react badly to Lando (who betrayed him). But that just highlights how little strategic sense it makes for Lando to even be involved in this. Boba Fett could easily recognize him, and Han probably wouldn’t trust him. Plus, Lando never actually does anything to help anyway (that we know of) until the plan has already collapsed.

G&G-Fan said:

Luke’s plan to rescue Han makes complete sense when you realize the reason his plan is so complex is because he’s going out of his way to not have to kill Jabba. Because that’s what Jedi do. Negotiate, not kill.

His first plan is to use the droids as a bargaining chip. Lando is planted there so he can get them out after Han is freed, and they lose nothing. That fails. So Leia’s sent in to free him, but she’s caught. Crap. So Luke has to go in himself. He calmly tries to negotiate with Jabba one last time, but he refuses. He knew about the Sarlacc, but not the Rancor, which is why he’s surprised by it. He planted the lightsaber in R2 in case he was gonna be thrown in the Sarlacc pit. Because otherwise they’d nab it off him when preparing to throw him in. And thus we get the sail barge scene.

Luke’s plan isn’t actually needlessly complicated, it’s just that we saw the worst possible scenario because Jabba is stubborn and insane.

I think this is the clearest layout for the “Plan A, Plan B” explanation. Rinzler’s Making of book actually goes into a bit of detail regarding what the plan was with Jabba.

“As one might expect, the rough draft tells a more convoluted story than the final film’s. In its general parts it is similar to the movie. In its details, however, the rough draft differs and in some ways excels. Luke’s plan to rescue Han, though overly complicated perhaps, is more logical than in its final form: It’s clear that his goal is to trick Jabba into the open, where it will be easier for Luke to do battle as a trained Jedi."

“The plan is to trick Jabba into taking Han Solo out of his fortress, as Luke has no hope of overpowering the crime lord and his vassals within his fortress.”

From the story meeting manuscript:

Lucas: What Luke wants to do is to get on that barge and the only way he can do it is as a prisoner. He has to become a prisoner and Chewie has to become a prisoner; they have to unfreeze Han and they all have to be at the same execution, which is what his plan is. He figures once he kills the rancor, then they have to go to the pit. He knows that’s where the execution is going to be anyway. What they do with ordinary nuisances, or solicitors, is they drop them into the rancor pit. Luke knows or doesn’t know that is what would happen, what kind of trap they have laid for him. He’s assuming that when he is discovered and when he is subdued, which he will be, that he is bound to end up with Han and Chewie in the skiff over the Sarlacc pit.
The plan is, “I am going to knock everybody overboard into the pit and we’re going take off”—but it goes a little awry because Boba Fett screws everything up and suddenly they are in trouble and they get into the fight.”
Kasdan: You can assume that Luke’s plan is multilayered and the court of last resort is they are going to take him to the Sarlacc pit and they’ll all be in place. But when he comes in and says, “I want to bargain for Han,” he is hoping that will work.
Lucas: Yes.

From the revised second draft

“Now when Solo comes out of the carbon block, Leia explains that he has hibernation sickness. When he asks who she is, Leia responds, “Someone who loves you.” After they’re captured, a new scene in a dungeon cell interior reunites Han and Chewie, with the latter explaining Luke’s plans to an incredulous Solo. When Luke arrives and has to face the rancor, Lucas fills in much of the action.

After Luke and the others are sentenced, the sub-stratagem of manipulating Jabba so that they’re taken out of the fortress has been dropped. Jabba makes the decision without Luke baiting him—but on the skiff, Luke explains to Han, “Jabba’s palace was too well guarded. I had to get you out of there. Just stay close to Chewie and Lando. We’ll take of everything.” Han: “I can hardly wait.”

Kasdan goes with the angle that Luke hoped he would be able to bargain for Jabba, but the Sarlacc was the last resort. I got the feeling Lucas was imagining that Luke knew Jabba would never give up Han, and everything was just meant to get the entire gang in the right place for the Sail Barge Assault. It makes sense if Lando came to the conclusion that bargaining with Jabba or escaping the fortress would be possible, and the only way Han would ever get out of there is if Jabba took him out himself… to be executed. I think in the end, elements of both interpretations were in the script.

And if you watch the film after Luke kills the Rancor, when 3PO tells them that they are going to be taken to the Sarlacc, you can see Luke nodding his head. It seems like this is what Luke expected. So I kind of see it as them going in knowing that getting to the Sarlacc as the main goal, and not the last resort. But like you said, if Jabba actually agreed to bargain, or if Leia managed to get Han out and Lando got the droids and Chewie, then that would’ve been a welcome surprise. I just got the feeling that Luke giving up the droids from the get-go shows that Luke has no intention of playing fair with Jabba. Which is understandable, since Jabba is a criminal and doesn’t play fair either. I think in the end, though, it was left intentionally vague because they weren’t 100% on which way to approach it.

This is more of a personal interpretation, but I like to think Luke foresaw what would happen on Tatooine. I think that would have satisfied most audiences questions, “Oh okay the Force, he saw what would happen”. Plus, it not only adds more reason for Luke to be so confident in what feels like a complex plan, but Luke luring Jabba into this trap parallels the Emperor luring the rebels into a trap that he also foresaw. The parallel plays into the inner darkness that Luke is in conflict with throughout the movie as well. I also think the Jabba sequence is more interesting if Luke’s emotions during it are a little more complicated. Yeah, he is playing the role of a Jedi wanting to avoid conflict at all costs, but I also get the feeling that a part of Luke wants Jabba to refuse so he can take him out and all of his minions. Yeah, not totally Zen of Luke, but I think it makes sense narratively for Luke to be dealing with that conflict at this point in the story. But the movie definitely plays it as a hero moment unquestioningly, which is fine.

I think it could have been an interesting element to introduce in the first act, though. Luke destroys Jabba and all of his minions, and he questions if violence was a last resort, or what he was actually hoping for. Then later, when we get to the Death Star, Luke actually wonders if Palpatine is right. Does he need the dark side to save his friends? Is that what saved them before? And even though Luke’s anger allows him to actually defeat Vader, Luke doesn’t let his emotions define him, or forever dominate his destiny. He throws his weapon away. Anyway, I think little things like this could have helped thematically tie the Jabba sequence even more with the rest of the film.

EDIT: I admittedly have not read to the ROTJ novelization, but a Tor article kind of summarizes the plot, comparing to the movie, and had this tidbit about the Sail Barge Assualt

The moral ambiguity of what Luke is doing to Jabba and his entourage is made more prevalent, as well as Luke’s uncertainty in how he’s meant to use his newfound power. In that way, Luke’s journey feels more cohesive, more transparent. He is being cocky on the sailbarge, and he is happy to destroy these people who caused pain to friends and neighbors.

“[Luke] found Jabba despicable–a leech of the galaxy, sucking the life from whatever he touched. Luke wanted to burn the villain, and so was actually rather glad Jabba had refused to bargain–for now Luke would get his wish precisely. Of course, his primary objective was to free his friends, whom he loved dearly; it was this concern that guided him now, above all else. But in the process, to free the universe from this gangster slug–this was a prospect that tinted Luke’s purpose with an ever-so-slightly dark satisfaction.”

And then, a few pages later:

“The deck gunners were lining up . . . their shots for the coup de grace, when Luke stepped in front of them, laughing like a pirate king. He lit his lightsaber before they could squeeze off a shot; a moment later they were smoking corpses.”

Obviously it isn’t canon, but it is interesting that the author had a similar interpretation as well.

So Jabba really is Leto II. from God Emperor of Dune.

RogueLeader said:

Lucas: What Luke wants to do is to get on that barge and the only way he can do it is as a prisoner. He has to become a prisoner and Chewie has to become a prisoner; they have to unfreeze Han and they all have to be at the same execution, which is what his plan is. He figures once he kills the rancor, then they have to go to the pit. He knows that’s where the execution is going to be anyway. What they do with ordinary nuisances, or solicitors, is they drop them into the rancor pit. Luke knows or doesn’t know that is what would happen, what kind of trap they have laid for him. He’s assuming that when he is discovered and when he is subdued, which he will be, that he is bound to end up with Han and Chewie in the skiff over the Sarlacc pit.
The plan is, “I am going to knock everybody overboard into the pit and we’re going take off”—but it goes a little awry because Boba Fett screws everything up and suddenly they are in trouble and they get into the fight.”
Kasdan: You can assume that Luke’s plan is multilayered and the court of last resort is they are going to take him to the Sarlacc pit and they’ll all be in place. But when he comes in and says, “I want to bargain for Han,” he is hoping that will work.
Lucas: Yes.

I think the biggest problem I have with all this, is that if Luke intended for Chewie to get caught, it implies Leia was supposed to bring him to Jabba (disguised as the bounty hunter). But then Leia tried to free Han herself - which does not contribute to getting everyone on the sail barge, except insomuch as Han needed to be unthawed somehow. But if the goal was to get everyone on the sail barge, that means Luke also intended for Leia to be caught. Alternatively, we can interpret this as Leia going off-script and just trying to take the opportunity to free Han. (But then how was Chewie supposed to get out, and how was Han supposed to be unthawed in Luke’s original plan?)

Plus, it seems absurd to claim Luke also intended for Leia to be caught. That would be particularly reprehensible to me, because Luke would know of Jabba’s reputation and the way he is likely to treat captive women specifically.

screams in the void said:

I think all parties involved would have discussed the plan ahead of time . Leia showed from the beginning that she can handle herself and I think if Luke had expressed Jabba’s reputation and treatment of captive women , Leia would have told Luke that she is a grown woman and can handle herself . And where was it stated that Luke had sole input in devising the plan ? Perhaps Leia knew the risks and decided how to proceed in her part herself anyway . Still , the plan as shown in the movie was convoluted for sure .

Well, let’s say Leia’s role was to (1) deliver Chewie to Jabba, (2) unthaw Han, (3) get caught herself so she ends up on the sail barge with everyone. This is kind of hard to buy, because the way the scene plays out (when Han says “I know that laugh…”), Leia seems to act like getting caught was an unexpected bad outcome. At least that’s my interpretation of the scene. But they also could have planned it so that Leia delivers Chewie to Jabba, collects 50,000 credits, and leaves. Then Lando unthaws Han, gets caught, Luke shows up, etc. Although we can infer Lando did lots of reconnaissance work, he never actually does anything onscreen to help. (But then I’m still wondering why Boba Fett doesn’t recognize him at some point, but whatever.) Maybe they chose Leia specifically because they knew that if she were caught unthawing Han, she wouldn’t be executed on the spot (unlike Lando), and would instead likely be turned into a harem slave.

Now, I’m sure Leia can handle anything Jabba does to her. She already endured torture from Vader and didn’t crack. But subjecting her to Jabba’s degrading treatment seems particularly egregious because it barely seems necessary. No matter how you look at it, the plan is ultimately to just have a Jedi show up and kick ass. So, how about this: Luke dresses up as a bounty hunter and delivers Chewie. Luke then unthaws Han at night and gets caught. Presumably then Jabba will throw him to the rancor, and the plan proceeds as usual. Alternatively, after delivering Chewie, Luke retrieves his lightsaber from R2, unthaws Han at night, gets caught, then just fights his way out. Leia shows up with the Falcon outside as their getaway. That alternative handwaves away how Chewie gets freed and makes many logistical assumptions, but either way, having Leia involved seems unnecessary when ultimately the plan revolves around Luke showing up, getting taken prisoner, and then getting Old Republic on everyone’s ass.

Channel72 said:
…having Leia involved seems unnecessary when ultimately the plan revolves around Luke showing up, getting taken prisoner, and then getting Old Republic on everyone’s ass.

Lol, love the phrasing!

The way I see it, one of the only things they didn’t totally expect was for Leia to be “enslaved”, despite Jabba’s reputation. Not only does Oola’s death set up the Rancor, but it sets up Jabba having an open position for a slave girl. Of course, it’s not like Jabba can only have a certain amount of slaves, but her death sets up a vacancy in the mind’s of the audience, if that makes sense. But they all probably expected Leia to be imprisoned with Han and be on the skiffs with the rest of them. I do like the idea though that maybe they did anticipate it, and Leia saying she can handle it if it did happen.

Sometimes I do wonder if the audience being left in the dark so much in the first act works well for audiences first time watching it, going in blind per se, but doesn’t really work as well for multiple viewings. You can imagine how cool it must’ve been for audiences to have each character slowly be revealed to them after not seeing them for 3 years. But the slow reveal of the mystery feels a little dull to me upon rewatch. That might come down to pacing issues moreso than the narrative POV, or me having seen the movie so many times, but I still find ANH and ESB engaging throughout despite that.

timdiggerm said:

RogueLeader said:

You can imagine how cool it must’ve been for audiences to have each character slowly be revealed to them after not seeing them for 3 years.

https://i.gifer.com/Aksq.gif

Lol, literally slowly

RogueLeader said:

Sometimes I do wonder if the audience being left in the dark so much in the first act works well for audiences first time watching it, going in blind per se, but doesn’t really work as well for multiple viewings. You can imagine how cool it must’ve been for audiences to have each character slowly be revealed to them after not seeing them for 3 years. But the slow reveal of the mystery feels a little dull to me upon rewatch. That might come down to pacing issues moreso than the narrative POV, or me having seen the movie so many times, but I still find ANH and ESB engaging throughout despite that.

Personally, I much prefer movies where we see the planning stages of the heist/rescue/operation/whatever before we watch it play out. There are many great bank robbery or prison escape movies that do this. I find it way more interesting to watch the operation play out when I know the logistics and possible contingencies in advance. Watching the operation play out when I have no clue what the plan is or what possible dangers or contingencies exist usually makes me feel like I’m just watching an arbitrary series of events. I don’t know what things were improvised and what things were part of the plan.

And it’s not like this is a foreign concept to Star Wars. In fact, in ROTJ - the very same movie - Mon Mothma explains in detail all the parameters of the Battle of Endor, and tells us who is doing what and what obstacles need to be overcome. That makes it way more interesting to watch as the events unfold, so we know what goes wrong and what goes right, what things had to be improvised, etc.

But I think with the Jabba scenes, as you said, Lucas wanted the excitement factor of slowly revealing each main character to the audience. Lucas probably thought that a scene with Luke, Leia, Lando and Chewie on the Millennium Falcon, looking at a holographic map of Jabba’s palace and discussing the plan, would probably not work as well dramatically for an opening sequence. But it’s still what I would have preferred.

Z6PO said:

Speaking of similar scenes in the same movie: the sister reveal is explained 3 times! First Luke get the news, then he breaks the news to Leia, and then Leia has to explain it to Han. It makes sense for the characters to get this information, but for the audience it’s the exact same reveal repeated 3 times. And it’s boring.

Also, Leia seemingly has no reaction to the fact that this implies Vader is also her father. (Luke tells her Vader is his father in the same scene.) Maybe her reaction is delayed or she doesn’t immediately make the connection. She’s upset a few minutes later after Luke leaves, when Han comes by. But it’s implied she’s upset mostly because Luke had to leave.

You’d think she’d have a much stronger reaction, like “Holy shit, you mean the evil cyborg that tortured me, and tortured Han, and stood by and watched as my whole planet exploded, etc. is my father??”

Of course, the real reason she doesn’t react is because Leia and Vader never interact again in the story, so the story doesn’t bring up Leia’s feelings about this since it’s not significant to the story and there would never be any real payoff.

If it Lucas Luke and Leia were going to be siblings from the very beginning, I do feel like he would’ve handled it differently. Yes, the trilogy is more so Luke’s story than anyone else’s, but the revelation and what it means for Luke isn’t given the same weight for Leia, even if the implication is pretty much the same.

Of course, Luke idealized his father, wanting to be like him, so discovering what his father became has this consequence of Luke wondering if he could become that too. Whereas when Leia was adopted by the Organas, they raised her as her parents. So I don’t think Leia ever spent much time wondering who her biological parents were, or wanting to be like them. The Organas were enough for her to look up to.

I know the EU and Canon both explore Leia’s feeling on Vader being her father a little, but it could’ve been interesting for the movies to explore that more.