logo Sign In

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 20

Author
Time
Post link
OK....

Thanks for your suggestions, Sluggo

Allrighty, Here's my 2¢ about the Ghost of Gui-Gon Jinn. (Thanks character map!)

1. The body of Qui-Gon can not dissappear. As it has been mentioned, this would create more problems than it would fix. In addition, Yoda and Obi-wan pretty much evaporated soon as they were dead. If this is the norm, then he would have to dissappear in Obi-wan's arms in the reactor room. Otherwise, he'd still be alive when they put him on the pyre and would have died in the flames.

2. I've been trying to talk somebody into re-editing the Anakin destroying the Droid Control Ship for quite a while. Having Qui-gon speak to Anakin through the Force is the way the movie needed to end up. The allusion to Luke destroying the Death Star would be perfect. The only problem would be that in the final edit, Qui-Gon is still alive. He dies after Anakin destroys the ship. Having Qui-Gon 'communicate' with Anakin while he is still alive seems problematic. Moving the scenes around fix the problem. Incidentally, the revised 3rd draft has Qui-Gon dying before Anakin does his stuff.

3. As far as having Gui-gon communicate with Anakin or Obi-wan later in the movies....I think I'd leave the communication to a minimum. Qui-gon is a prequel character. If he is talking to everybody and appearing to everybody, then there's no reason for him not to be in the classic trilogy. If I had him appear, I'd have him only at the very end of the movie, As Obi-wan is walking back to the Eeopie. He'd appeas as Obi-wan walks towards him.

1. I see what you're saying, but...could someone explain to me again what happened with Darth at the end of ROTJ? We're going on the original Sebastian Shaw scenario, by the way.

2. Absolutely- this has been brought up before and you don't need to convince me a bit. When I FINALLY get to Episode I in a couple years, then this is sure to happen.

3. I'm not sure about cutting the communication, because I do think Qui-Gon is an important character and needs to be somewhat more involved, if he has retained his identity. But that's a VERY interesting idea, showing the ghost of Qui-Gon at the end of the film, almost like the end of ROTJ. That would tie things up very, very nicely. So what we would have in my PT is: Qui-Gon dies. Then, he helps Anakin destroy the Control Ship (like Obi-Wan in original SW). Qui-Gon doesn't have any contact with Obi-Wan (until the very end, when Obi-Wan sees his master at the end of the film), but Qui-Gon continues to be in touch with Anakin, through dreams and whatnot. This would make sense because he did this immediately after dying in Ep. I. Then, Yoda does NOT make the casual comment about communing with Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon simply appears to Obi-Wan at the end, kind of de-emphasizing the "learning" part of becoming a ghost and still retaining some mystery. What do you guys think? I'm very happy with this particular solution.


Anybody ever hear of a guy named Michael Giacchino? He started out doing video game soundtracks (Jurassic Park: The Lost World, the Medal of Honor series, etc.) and has recently done his first major movie which was "The Incredibles". Anyway, my point is this guy sounds VERY similar to classic John Williams. So much so, that some of his action cues from the games he's done, the World War II-themed games in particular, could be useful as a viable John Williams alternative for you, Trooperman, if you needed to stretch the music in certain areas.


YES- heard the "Incredibles" soundtrack more than once. I had never heard his vid-game soundtracks before, and after listening to those links, I conclude that....

This is great stuff! Thanks SO much for this. My favorite was the "Rowhouses" track- definitely sounds like something that goes in either the arena or the Clone War. What I like to do with these new themes is hint at them a couple times earlier in the movie, and then blast a full version of it at a dramatic moment. The punch of the music is added to by the familiarity; you've heard it before. I'd love to get hold of more of these tracks- are they on the game in .mp3 format, or uncompressed .wav? (sorry- not a big gamer here). If they're in the .wav format, I'll definitely want to get hold of them for better fidelity (I'm one of those people who try to pick out the compression artifacts in mp3 instead of just listening to it. Also worth noting that I can't stand watching a PAL movie because I have something called "perfect pitch" that enables me to identify and produce all 12 musical pitches, and I can't stand hearing the SW theme in B Major instead of B flat- it drives me nuts).


Also Trooperman... You mentioned there would be some original music written for this edit. Could you elaborate on that?

Sure!
1. I am trained in composition and tonal harmony
2. I write music
3. I play many different instruments
4. I hate MIDI and other computer generated sounds when used in movie soundtracks
5. I have equipment enabling me to record in stereo at home

Don’t want to ruin all the surprise, though
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-Almost finished the Obi-Wan/Dooku saber fight sound effects. Began on a stereo version and got bored, so…
-Starting working on the Shmi death scene with the alternate binary sunset cue before it. Unfortunately, I noticed through very revealing headphones that there's a slight buzz at the climax of this cue. Wondering if I did something wrong, I checked the actual CD, and it has the same defect. Not a big deal- just 70's recording technology, I guess. This certainly won't keep me from using it. Darkened the Tusken scenes outside and added chilling scream to scene, but except for a couple Anakin lines I've cut, the indoor part of the scene isn't changing much. I'm getting more and more efficient at this, which is a good thing.
-Those impact flashes are going to be a blast (no pun intended), and not difficult at all. And they will be white (not pink like the 2004 SW trilogy).
-I have four different edits of Ep. II now: Clone War, Path to the Dark Side, the “re-edit”, and the matinee edit. Of course I also have the plans for RebelScumb’s unreleased edit, thanks to Mr. Freeman. This will allow me to incorporate any superior changes that any one of these folks have made. The one I’m missing is the one by the “Phantom Editor”. Could anyone who’s seen it let me know if there are any worthwhile cuts or changes, however small?

Thanks!

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
3. I'm not sure about cutting the communication, because I do think Qui-Gon is an important character and needs to be somewhat more involved, if he has retained his identity. But that's a VERY interesting idea, showing the ghost of Qui-Gon at the end of the film, almost like the end of ROTJ. That would tie things up very, very nicely. So what we would have in my PT is: Qui-Gon dies. Then, he helps Anakin destroy the Control Ship (like Obi-Wan in original SW). Qui-Gon doesn't have any contact with Obi-Wan (until the very end, when Obi-Wan sees his master at the end of the film), but Qui-Gon continues to be in touch with Anakin, through dreams and whatnot. This would make sense because he did this immediately after dying in Ep. I. Then, Yoda does NOT make the casual comment about communing with Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon simply appears to Obi-Wan at the end, kind of de-emphasizing the "learning" part of becoming a ghost and still retaining some mystery. What do you guys think? I'm very happy with this particular solution.

I see where you're both going with this, and I remember in Lucas' commentary he talks about editing the ending several different ways until he decided the lightsaber duel worked best as the final ending. Of course, it SHOULDN'T be that way, but of course in the actual film it turned out to be TPM's best aspect. When you think about it, Anakin destroying the ship and shutting down the army is the appropriate finale, as it was the real focus of the final battle (and as Sluggo points out was the way it was in the script). Does this mean we lose "Always be mindul of your surroundings," because I really liked that. And if you're going to try to add Qui-Gon's spirit to Obi-Wan's last scene, you should at least experiment with him looking down on Anakin's immolation in silence. I do much prefer this downplayed explanation, but we can delve into that more next year around this time.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
3. I'm not sure about cutting the communication, because I do think Qui-Gon is an important character and needs to be somewhat more involved, if he has retained his identity. But that's a VERY interesting idea, showing the ghost of Qui-Gon at the end of the film, almost like the end of ROTJ. That would tie things up very, very nicely. So what we would have in my PT is: Qui-Gon dies. Then, he helps Anakin destroy the Control Ship (like Obi-Wan in original SW). Qui-Gon doesn't have any contact with Obi-Wan (until the very end, when Obi-Wan sees his master at the end of the film), but Qui-Gon continues to be in touch with Anakin, through dreams and whatnot. This would make sense because he did this immediately after dying in Ep. I. Then, Yoda does NOT make the casual comment about communing with Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon simply appears to Obi-Wan at the end, kind of de-emphasizing the "learning" part of becoming a ghost and still retaining some mystery. What do you guys think? I'm very happy with this particular solution.

I see where you're both going with this, and I remember in Lucas' commentary he talks about editing the ending several different ways until he decided the lightsaber duel worked best as the final ending. Of course, it SHOULDN'T be that way, but of course in the actual film it turned out to be TPM's best aspect. When you think about it, Anakin destroying the ship and shutting down the army is the appropriate finale, as it was the real focus of the final battle (and as Sluggo points out was the way it was in the script). Does this mean we lose "Always be mindul of your surroundings," because I really liked that. And if you're going to try to add Qui-Gon's spirit to Obi-Wan's last scene, you should at least experiment with him looking down on Anakin's immolation in silence. I do much prefer this downplayed explanation, but we can delve into that more next year around this time.


I'd have to agree with all of you here, if we're all on the same page with this. I really believe the PT did too much to take away the mystery of the Force by giving too many explanations (ie. midichlorians... *shudders, trying not to wretch*) and leaving it as you've described here would fit the mythos far better, IMHO. Using Qui-Gon in this way is sort of like giving another parallel to the OT, as Qui-Gon dies before giving Anakin his complete training and then he is trained by another, just as Luke loses Obi-Wan before much training can be done, only to have his training passed off to another (Yoda in this case). The continued edits would really would drive home not only the similarities of the two generations of Skywalkers, but also the differences, as we see Luke resist the Emperor where Anakin couldn't. They seem so much on the same path in ANH/TPM and ESB/AOTC, only to find their ultimate failings or victories in ROTJ/ROTS. Giving Anakin the same guidance as Luke had will surely underline the fact that they can and should have been done as two sides of the same coin instead of the vastly different characters shown in the OT and PT. Shame on Lucas for not seeing this the way we do. lol

Okay I'll put my ego away again for now....

Seriously though, I'm really looking forward to how all of this turns out. Great stuff here and I'll gladly stand in line to receive this one when you have it finished, Trooperman.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/damonhunter/TDHOpenerMini.jpg
"Luminous beings are we -- not this crude matter." ~~Master Yoda
"I find your lack of faith disturbing." ~~Lord Vader
Author
Time
Post link
SuperTrooper,

I see what you mean by having Anakin communicating with Qui-Gon throughout the trilogy. Having Anakin being able to hear Qui-Gon would emphasise his power as the chosen one. And I like the idea of Anakin calling out to Qui-Gon at the end of Sith would be an awesome parallel with ESB. For some reason, I was thinking you guys were talking about when Ben appears to Luke on Hoth, instead of when Luke was calling out to Ben on the Cloud City weather vane. Thought would be a great change.

Maybe you should then construt a difference between hearing dead Jedi and seeing dead Jedi. Dead Jedi could talk to those who are able to hear them, but they can only be seen by those who learn how. If you change that one Yoda line, it would set up the scenario nicely.

What happened to Sebastian... uh, Anakin is that he died on the ramp of the shuttle. He didn't show him fading away. The shot cut away before it happened. If it did. Next time we saw him, it was the suit burning on the pyre on Endor. Sure, Anakin could have been in there, but it didn't need to be. Besides, burning an empty suit is a fine symbol of the end of the Empire. THis is the lastshot of Anakin in Jedi:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Sluggomatic2000/Anakindies.jpg

It is a couple of seconds long. Should it be necessary, It would be easy to edit Anakin fading out here.

-TheSluggo
Author
Time
Post link
And I like the idea of Anakin calling out to Qui-Gon at the end of Sith would be an awesome parallel with ESB. For some reason, I was thinking you guys were talking about when Ben appears to Luke on Hoth, instead of when Luke was calling out to Ben on the Cloud City weather vane. Thought would be a great change.

Personally I was talking about both! There are parallels with both scenarios, but in particular Luke and Anakin's position as they lay dying in extreme cold and heat respectively. If Qui-Gon's spirit were to appear it would then mirror Hoth much more than Cloud City.

And I totally agree Anakin should disappear at the end of RotJ. Trooperman has said he has no plans to edit the OT, but maybe we can persuade him to make a few minor alterations for the good of the saga.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
And I like the idea of Anakin calling out to Qui-Gon at the end of Sith would be an awesome parallel with ESB. For some reason, I was thinking you guys were talking about when Ben appears to Luke on Hoth, instead of when Luke was calling out to Ben on the Cloud City weather vane. Thought would be a great change.

Personally I was talking about both! There are parallels with both scenarios, but in particular Luke and Anakin's position as they lay dying in extreme cold and heat respectively. If Qui-Gon's spirit were to appear it would then mirror Hoth much more than Cloud City.

And I totally agree Anakin should disappear at the end of RotJ. Trooperman has said he has no plans to edit the OT, but maybe we can persuade him to make a few minor alterations for the good of the saga.


Or maybe that particular scene as a bonus feature on one of the prequel discs.

Or maybe if Darth Editous ever does a ROTJ disc. That would be the NEW HOTNESS!!
Author
Time
Post link
The DVD of Return of the Jedi is the one that needs the most work. Bleh!

I'm editing the films and I just want to wait and let someone else do a better job of cleaning it up themselves. My feeble editing skills are no match for un-crappifying ROTJ>

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

Author
Time
Post link
50% less Ewoks, that's all I want. And 100% less burps.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Trooperman

This is great stuff! Thanks SO much for this. My favorite was the "Rowhouses" track- definitely sounds like something that goes in either the arena or the Clone War. What I like to do with these new themes is hint at them a couple times earlier in the movie, and then blast a full version of it at a dramatic moment. The punch of the music is added to by the familiarity; you've heard it before. I'd love to get hold of more of these tracks- are they on the game in .mp3 format, or uncompressed .wav? (sorry- not a big gamer here). If they're in the .wav format, I'll definitely want to get hold of them for better fidelity (I'm one of those people who try to pick out the compression artifacts in mp3 instead of just listening to it. Also worth noting that I can't stand watching a PAL movie because I have something called "perfect pitch" that enables me to identify and produce all 12 musical pitches, and I can't stand hearing the SW theme in B Major instead of B flat- it drives me nuts).



Edited: PM me your info, Trooperman.

InfoDroid

Author
Time
Post link
Trooperman,
Just wanted to add my kudos to your great work. The clips only make me crazy to see more. I think you're f**king awesome.

Author
Time
Post link
I have four different edits of Ep. II now: Clone War, Path to the Dark Side, the “re-edit”, and the matinee edit. Of course I also have the plans for RebelScumb’s unreleased edit, thanks to Mr. Freeman. This will allow me to incorporate any superior changes that any one of these folks have made. The one I’m missing is the one by the “Phantom Editor”. Could anyone who’s seen it let me know if there are any worthwhile cuts or changes, however small?


There are a lot of small cuts that have been made throughout the entire movie, so it would take a while to list them all. From what I rememberer, many (or at least some) of the changes are things that are different from your version. There is also some dialouge altererations you maybe could "borrow" from his edit, so I think it's worth to get a copy of it yourself.
By the way, the change I told you about Padme's scream in the droid factory some months ago is not my idea, but came from this edit (I was the one who sent Rikter a copy), so you give credit to the right person if you are going to use that idea.
Author
Time
Post link
Hello, everyone! Thanks for your patience and feedback.

“Does this mean we lose "Always be mindul of your surroundings," because I really liked that.”

No, it shouldn’t.

“we can delve into that more next year around this time.”

Definitely.


“I really believe the PT did too much to take away the mystery of the Force by giving too many explanations (ie. midichlorians... *shudders, trying not to wretch*) and leaving it as you've described here would fit the mythos far better, IMHO.”

Yes!- Midichlorians are out.

“The continued edits would really would drive home not only the similarities of the two generations of Skywalkers, but also the differences, as we see Luke resist the Emperor where Anakin couldn't.”

Exactly- this makes ROTJ more scary because Anakin couldn’t resist the Emperor in a similar situation. I’ve always thought of it this way.

“Seriously though, I'm really looking forward to how all of this turns out. Great stuff here and I'll gladly stand in line to receive this one when you have it finished, Trooperman.”

Thanks!

Regarding distribution- I am not going to be able to distribute these myself. Don’t have time, money, or desire to take the risk. So copies will go to a select few that I have decided on already, and through these folks this edit will get to someone who will act as my distributor- i.e. you will contact him for a copy of my edit and not me. It will also more likely than not wind up on myspleen and the newsgroups.
Of course, I’ll be eager to discuss the edit with anyone that wants to learn more about it or collaborate, but I just want as little to do with distributing it as possible after I complete it, in case Lucasfilm or Fox does a “track down all the fan editors and make them pay” move.

“If you change that one Yoda line”

Which one? (to confirm)

I think you guys see where I’m going with this- Qui-Gon didn’t figure out how to come back as a ghost until the 3rd film. We see him at the end of the movie on Tatooine as Obi-Wan walks toward him, the implication being that Obi-Wan chats with Qui-Gon between the 3rd and 4th film and teaches him the secret. So when Obi-Wan dies…he disappears. And Yoda is Yoda- no explanation needed!

Now, going with this scenario, the fact that Anakin didn’t disappear in ROTJ isn’t as disturbing- he was never taught how, was he? But if such a change were to be made, I wouldn’t do it. Someone else would need to.

“Trooperman has said he has no plans to edit the OT, but maybe we can persuade him to make a few minor alterations for the good of the saga.”

“Noooooooo!” (which will be cut from III, by the way). Part of the point of these projects was to prove that the two trilogies COULD have worked together without having to change the originals. These are meant to go with the original cuts- transfers either from the pre-THX widescreen, the Def. Collection, or the Faces set. However, if someone were to take the Darth Editous edits, or the Tellan edits, the ocpmovie Classic Editions, etc. and tailored them to work with this trilogy (putting the original Lucasfilm logos and crawl back into the DVD, etc), then it would probably be OK. But otherwise, none of the edits or “partial-special editions” out there will match with these. But if I did it myself….I would never hear the end of it

“Just wanted to add my kudos to your great work. The clips only make me crazy to see more.”

Thanks, Mthaslett! Haven’t heard from you in a while! By the way, I will be calling on you sometime for Lama-Su; I just can’t give you details now. But I will have you do that

“There are a lot of small cuts that have been made throughout the entire movie, so it would take a while to list them all. From what I rememberer, many (or at least some) of the changes are things that are different from your version. There is also some dialouge altererations you maybe could "borrow" from his edit, so I think it's worth to get a copy of it yourself.
By the way, the change I told you about Padme's scream in the droid factory some months ago is not my idea, but came from this edit (I was the one who sent Rikter a copy), so you give credit to the right person if you are going to use that idea.”

I see…you must have sent this disc to Rikter recently, because a few weeks ago I ordered every Episode II edit that Rikter had listed, on DVD. I will see about obtaining a copy of that. And I am going to use the “scream” idea, which would make it even more useful to have this edit to see how they implemented this. Thanks!

---------------------
InfoDroid is away for a few days, but he has been so kind to supply with a wealth of musical material I can use, not just for SotDS but for the others as well. I’m so grateful to him for doing it. These include the hard-to-find “Conveyor Belt” arrangement in CD quality. All this music will make a huge improvement in my edit. But I have a big a question for anyone who knows…was there EVER an instrument-only recording of Henry Mancini’s “The Shadow of Paris” from the film “A Shot in the Dark”? I’ve looked around on the Internet, and it appears that there is not a soundtrack for this film, and the only recording of it I could find has vocals. Does anyone know if this exists? Otherwise, I’ll have to record it myself- I need this track very much. You’ll see why

Thanks!- things are busy lately but I’m still making progress on the saber fight, impact flashes in the Clone War, and the nightclub scene. Soon, I’ll have to buckle down and really do some serious dubbing work on the dialogue heavy scenes. After I get these done, the Droid Factory all cut together, all the robot and Lama-Su dubbing done, and the end battle scenes done, then I’ll be a lot better shape.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
*tiny Bump*

This project gets more and more interesting with every new page I read, especially with the idea of adding Neeson dialogue from his other movies. Hey, now that the batman begins dvd is out, maybe some of the alternate takes or behind the scenes/interviews could be used; maybe there's a little library of Neeson dialogue out there that's not just from his movie roles, but events, interviews, narrations- the guy is busy.... I. wonder. if. there's a neeson fansite that's archived any of them like this one hehe, just throwing it out there incase it's not already been done.

Anyway, I'm really excited to see the end result!!! aahh! And it's bound to better than the original, especially for such an extensive fan-edit, no... fan-improvement. Amazing work, trooperman!
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
Author
Time
Post link
Thank you, Weyseed! I too am a tad bit reluctant to merely call this a fan “edit”, because this implies that I just took what was there and cut it to my liking. So much new material is going into this thing, between the alternate music, newly recorded and possibly newly written music, completely new Anakin ADR, new Lama-Su, new robot, in some scenes completely new soundtrack…the list kind of goes on and on. So maybe I’ll just call it my edit/project and leave it at that

Still doing the final saber duel- and as usual, while experimenting, I stumbled across a couple fantastic things not part of the original duel plan. They are incorporated now. I think one of them was based off one of Darth Simon’s suggestions (eliminating a contradiction in the scene)…I could be wrong, though. But I originally had the scene sot that the music builds and builds underneath Obi-Wan/Dooku, and then it finishes when Dooku hits Obi-Wan and he falls to the ground. Now, keeping in mind the surprise of Anakin’s rescue (no CGI jumping shot), the music continues to build as Obi-Wan falls to the ground, Dooku raises his saber (only one short shot of this, not the endless shots of Obi-Wan making faces and Dooku twirling his lightsaber around. Also no cutaways to Anakin). So Dooku raises saber, Obi-Wan looks up, and Dooku brings down his saber onto Anakin’s saber (Yavin cue finishes). Shot of Obi-Wan looking up in relief. Cut to Dooku (Brave of you, boy), and this cut coincides with underscore of a tuba doing “Uranus” from planets (more musical unity). I had to lower this 3 half steps to make sense musically with the previous cue.

I don’t want to spell out the other change, but just wanted to let you know how frequently these ideas and experiments happen when I’m actually editing as opposed to watching.

----------------------------------------------------------------

This may be a crazy idea, but just to throw it out there….

What if General Grievous = Lama Su?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Trooperman
This may be a crazy idea, but just to throw it out there….

What if General Grievous = Lama Su?

I know you're having trouble getting people to dub lines for you, but this is not the answer.
Author
Time
Post link
Ha- you figured that one out quick But it would make things easier

But if we can figure out the technical recording issues and the voice is right, then MTHaslett is on board for the prime minister

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Trooperman
This may be a crazy idea, but just to throw it out there….

What if General Grievous = Lama Su?


I think out there is the right way to describe it.
Author
Time
Post link
I am here for Lama Su -- but I don't think I can even comprehend the idea of Lama Su = General Grievous.

TM -- are you among the anti-Grievous fans? I have to count myself as tickled to death by Grievous in Episode III. I found his final battle with Obi Wan to be one of the emotional highlights of a movie I thoroughly enjoyed.

...But what if his android body were built out of the damaged remains of Lama Su... I can't even make it work for a second.

But here's one that would twist the whole PT -- what if Grievous were Qui Gon?

Nah.

Why wasn't he Darth Maul?

I'll go away now.

Author
Time
Post link
Guys, keep in mind that that was a half-joke; Darth Maul=Grievous makes far more sense that that. But then again, who would have thought that Vader was Luke's father? That Leia and Luke were related? Things are twisted in the SW world.

Therefore, it follows that I don't want to make it worse. MTHaslett, I had a BIG problem with Grievous the first time I saw the film. It got better with subsequent viewings, but the idea of Maul=Grievous is very interesting to me.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Trooperman
I had a BIG problem with Grievous the first time I saw the film. It got better with subsequent viewings, but the idea of Maul=Grievous is very interesting to me.

Same here. One of the weakest aspects of the film while serving as yet another throw away villain of the prequels. I have long been a supporter of Grevious=Maul, and being the great monitor of the fan edit threads that you are, I'm sure you've come across some of my ideas. Hopefully when the time comes to get to work on Episode 3 we can delve into this more thouroughly.
Author
Time
Post link
After watching AOTC again, I noticed that a lot of work needs to be done to maintain the original character of Yoda. I'm really hoping you'll be paying attention to these problems in your project, Trooperman. To date, all other editors have overlooked or ignored these instances.

Particularly, "Around the survivors a perimeter make" just doesn't sound right. It sounds like they tried too hard to make Yoda sound like Yoda and they failed. "To the forward command center take me" mmmiiiight pass. I don't know.

The "Warm feelings to my heart" line is completely out of character. Why do they try to make him so cutesy? So they can sell dolls? The whole character of Yoda is interesting because although he looks like a cute, little frog-thing, he's really just a cranky old man. And they've killed that with lines like this and the Younglings scene.

Which brings me to the other thing that definitely needs to go, which is the "Truly wonderful the mind of a child. (snicker, snicker)" The scene would work much better with Yoda retaining his serious demeanor and simply cutting to him saying "The Padawan is right."

And at the END! The horribly botched ending! When Yoda shows up with the clones to save the day, it should be an emotional equivalent to when Han Solo reappeared with the Falcon to save Luke at the end of ANH. Why didn't we hear a big, triumphant rendition of Yoda's theme during that scene? Or at least the Force theme??? It should have made us clap and cheer!!! Instead we said, "Oh... Yoda. Of course. When is this crap gonna be over?"

And in closing let me just stress again the importance, value, and downright dire need of a complete and total overhaul of the music. Watching it again, the music for this film is so bad... it... it actually makes me angry.

Anyway, this Yoda stuff is something I didn't really remember as being a problem, but watching it with editing in mind, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Author
Time
Post link
I agree with all of this except the "warms my heart" line. Yoda needs a bit of compassion. Sure, the original Yoda can be seen as a grumpy old man, but that's after hanging out in a slimy mud-hole for 20 years.
Author
Time
Post link
Sorry, Sluggo, but for me, it's the equivalent of Jesus Christ saying, "Gimmie a high-five!"

Author
Time
Post link
I believe Trooperman has addressed all of the points you brought up, InfoDroid. The suggestion of a fanfare of “Yoda’s Theme” when he arrives with the clones is an excellent one, but he probably wants to save the kind of a cue for the end of the film when Yoda saves Anakin and Obi-Wan from Dooku (remember there is no Yoda/Dooku duel in SotDS).

Your comparison of Yoda arriving with the clones to Han saving Luke in ANH is apt, but flawed. Lucas says this very thing in the DVD commentary, but the difference is everyone knew there was going to be a big clone battle at the end of the film. That was a huge advertising point of AotC. Solo shooting down Vader was totally unexpected, part of why it was so great.
Author
Time
Post link
That's good news, Commander Courage. I'm glad it's being addressed.

As far as "Yoda saves the day", whether the event is expected or not, my opinion is that it could be injected with a lot more emotion through the simple use of editing and music, etc. Regardless of Lucas' intentions or comments for the scene.

It's funny that you're mentioning Lucas' commentary as if that validates the reason the scene was lacking any dramatic punch whatsoever, because, the bottom line is, if his film-making sensibilities weren't gravely flawed, people like Trooperman wouldn't have to pour their time and resources into fixing his mistakes. So, at this point, who really gives a damn what Lucas thinks?

What you're saying is that everyone knew there was going to be a big battle because it was advertised, so oh well. And that's exactly how it came across in the movie. Big deal. But, I'm saying that this scene and the events leading up to it should be structured in a way that it IS a big deal! You have to make it a big deal! We know there will be a big battle, of course. There's always one. But we don't know HOW it's going to happen or WHAT's going to happen.

The Jedi and all three main characters are completely outnumbered, surrounded by thousands of battle droids, Dooku and his underlings have them right where they want them, they're about to be executed, what are they going to do? And suddenly, "LOOK!" up in the sky... It's YODA! With an army of clones! I mean, come on! It's the big climax of the movie! It's the beginning of the first battle of the great Clone Wars! Without the Yoda duel, it's the high-point of the entire film. And the music and emotion of the scene should reflect that so the audience knows what to feel. That's why I compared it to the Han Solo thing, because that's how it SHOULD feel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this project is shaping up to be one of the most extensive fan-made reformations of a Star Wars film to date, and it's about the restructuring and reimagining of an existing hack-job... To make it something worthwhile and enjoyable that can stand up with pride next to the OT. How is that going to be accomplished if you judge the value of an idea based on the comments of Lucas, the very architecht of the saga's inconsistency?