Anyone else think Empire Strikes Back's Special Edition is actually better than the Theatrical Cut? — Page 4

My opinion is the 2020 Special Edition is unwatchable. Too much color was taken out, too much dvnr. The audio is at least better than on Star Wars, but i hate all the changes. The Emperor scene is so bad for that alone i find it not fun to watch. I hate the Revenge of the Sith Emperor being in a movie made in the 1980s. I hate Morrison’s Fett. While i find Disney’s version to be tolerable because he is a good actor, here its like he read lines for Lucas over a telephone.

The changes to the score and pacing especially in the alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival are ruinous to the movie.

Wish there was a semi specialized that had all the original effects, a new multi track mix. A cleaned up picture with good colors. And all the stuff that wasn’t supposed to be there like matte lines and garbage mattes removed. Fix misaligned rotoscope. Those kind of things. Remove all the prequelisms.

No.

The changes really adds nothing to it, and like the later vader “NOOOOO” in ROTJ ultra super special edition, the removal of the "bring my shuttle line,” cheats the audience of the emotional impact of a scene, and in film those around Vader have an idea of the mood he is in after his duel with Luke. With the new line he almost sounds bored, and ordering a burger from a drive thru.

The line is abrupt, direct and to the point: it tells those around him that he wants his shuttle there NOW, and he’s in no mood for any delays.

“Alert my star destroyer” and everything that follows just adds bloat to the film. Vader has no need to report in, nor does anyone aboard have need to know his comings and goings; Vader will arrive when he sees fit, and the ship will leave when he says so. If you have a problem with that, you should ask Admiral Ozzel how doing things your ways on Vader’s ship goes for you.

Everyone else has of course mentioned the atrocity that is the Luke yell.

Those of you who are defending the special editions’ existence, let me just say , you’re missing the point. We have no problem with them existing, or even that you prefer them. I for one think it would be interesting to have a choice every now and again. But the problem is that Lucas denied us that choice, and we had to depend on fans like Harmy to restore the old versions. So it’s not a matter of whether or not the special editions should exist or not, as I think most of us would agree that the special editions would be fine as long as they existed alongside the originals.

[Bluto said:]
6) Luke’s scream. Only used in the 1997 version, and a bizarre addition which was thankfully removed in all future versions. Without this, the 1997 SE would be about neck and neck with the 1980 version for me.
Bluto

Too bad we now have to deal with Vader’s "Noooo"s at the end of ROTJ (as if it weren’t already the most insufferable episode’s SE of them all), i agree that TESB is the best of the SWSEs, the fact alone that an argument could be made (whether someone agrees or not) if it’s better than the original says it all, but still, the added effects recall too much attention, they really stick like sore thumbs.
I’m actually not against the Wampa because, if anything else was left the same, it would be more like a Lucas’ cut instead of a Special Edition, and i’m all for extended cuts in general, unless the movies in question are awful, but this definitely isn’t the case.

Kyp_Astaar said:

[Bluto said:]
6) Luke’s scream. Only used in the 1997 version, and a bizarre addition which was thankfully removed in all future versions. Without this, the 1997 SE would be about neck and neck with the 1980 version for me.
Bluto

Too bad we now have to deal with Vader’s "Noooo"s at the end of ROTJ (as if it weren’t already the most insufferable episode’s SE of them all), i agree that TESB is the best of the SWSEs, the fact alone that an argument could be made (whether someone agrees or not) if it’s better than the original says it all, but still, the added effects recall too much attention, they really stick like sore thumbs.
I’m actually not against the Wampa because, if anything else was left the same, it would be more like a Lucas’ cut instead of a Special Edition, and i’m all for extended cuts in general, unless the movies in question are awful, but this definitely isn’t the case.

What is this “WE”? Not if you have all official cuts to choose from. Fan edits are in a different category altogether.

I used to have a more definitive answer to this prior to 2009. Since I’m on my journey to get all official versions, I can pick, and choose, which of those versions to watch. 1980 Theatrical Edition, 1997 Special Edition, 2004 DVD Edition, 2006 DVD Edition, 2011 BD Edition, 2019/2020 Disney+/4K&BD Edition. Oh wait, no mention of GOUT? Sounds idiotic to me, mine is easier to follow.
Below is a great comparison between the 1980 Theatrical release and the 1997 Special Edition release.
https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=2005824

While the changed shots in the ESB special editions bother me less than the other two films, I still prefer to watch the original version if given the option.

I definitely prefer the look of the 1997 35mm prints, as we’ve seen with 4K97_V. The more consistent color timing (which was still respectful to the source material) was an improvement. It sucks that ESB came out in one of the worst years for film stock, when Eastmancolor was your only mainstream option with minimal alternatives (Fujicolor and Agfacolor, IIRC).

Servii said:

Temeura Morrison as Boba Fett makes a lot of sense because he is objectively better at delivering his lines than Jason Wingreen did.

Most of your points I’d say are fair, but Jason Wingreen definitely did a better job with his lines. They sound way more menacing and less phoned in when he says them.

Definitely.

Superweapon VII said:

Except he looks nothing like he did in ROTJ, upsetting visual continuity. And the altered dialogue is a hackjob.

The Adywan version of that scene is still the best. It gets as close to the original dialogue as possible, maintains the original shot list, and has more ROTJ continuity with the appearance of The Emperor.

Hydra Spectre said:

The new Wampa scene actually heightens the suspense over the original. In the original, you just get faint glimpses of the Wampa and the fate of Luke’s Tauntaun is left up in the air. People already know what the Wampa looks like so there’s no point in hiding it. And it’s actually more suspenseful to show him feasting on the Tauntaun’s carcass, heightening the tension that the Wampa would eat Luke next.

Disagree respectfully. Not showing IMO heightens the tension more because you never know where the Wampa is or when he will show up. Repeatedly cutting back and forth between Luke and the Wampa makes the situation less dire because the Wampa clearly has a face full of food and only shows us the audience that yes Luke is in a dire situation and needs to get out ASAP but the tension is robbed but revealing too much of the Wampa beforehand.

I agree, the change i truly hate is the voice of boba fett. But they changed it 2004 not '97.
Another special edition change i like is the Victory theme instead of Yub Nub in ROTJ.

And i agree with the quote, people hate the specials, becase it feels like they want to erase the originals.
But they should erase, just let people decide.

BedeHistory731 said:

I definitely prefer the look of the 1997 35mm prints, as we’ve seen with 4K97_V. The more consistent color timing (which was still respectful to the source material) was an improvement. It sucks that ESB came out in one of the worst years for film stock, when Eastmancolor was your only mainstream option with minimal alternatives (Fujicolor and Agfacolor, IIRC).

I agree on all these points. Pre LPP Eastman prints are terrible. At least with Star Wars you got a LPP reissue and there were IP tech prints made in 77. Maybe there is a reissue print of Empire that just hasn’t surfaced in LPP. But since Technicolor was dead there was no Empire Strikes Back print.

And you would think fading isn’t possible after LPP was introduced but my 70mm film cels for ROTJ say the opposite. At least Team Blu had a show print. As for Empire the 16mm dupe retained its color.

The only stable color 35mm print to show in a theater is the 1997 print.

Honestly, ESB’s Special Edition wasn’t horrible at all! A lot of the changes were actually good, such as actually seeing the Wampa creature, changing the walls in Cloud City, and getting Ian McDiarmid to portray the emperor. Overall, ESB was the only movie who’s Special Edition changes were good.

My all-time least favorite change is Vader’s shuttle arriving on the “Star Destroyer”. I can take or leave the “Bring my shuttle” line being changed (I prefer the old line but it’s not a huge deal to me) and don’t think the other new shots hurt the pacing that much, but I HATE that they used recycled Return of the Jedi footage. Even when I was a kid I hated how obvious it was. If George absolutely needed to show Vader returning to his Star Destroyer, the shot of the shuttle flying towards it could’ve been the final added shot without any distracting footage from the wrong movie necessary.

Yes it was very lazy to reuse an out-take from Return of the Jedi. You can even see Jerjerrod in the footage. Lucas likes to reuse deleted scenes later, and even ideas from scripts previously jettisoned. Most of the time not for the good.

I’m not sure which line change is worse, that one or the Luke “you don’t taste so good” being cut. Technically not a SE change but I still kinda hate it.