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ANDOR - Disney+ Series - A General Discussion Thread — Page 9

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It is, as people have said, great, and the suggestion that you should watch the first 3 “episodes” as one movie is correct.

I did not like the music at the end of episode 2; I thought it was very cheesy.

But pretty much everything else was great, and you’ve mostly all said it all.

On a very unimportant note, was this the first time “caf” made the jump to the new Canon?

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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Ice said:

My god, the soundtrack at the very end of ep 2!

Is this the first time we hear a rock drum kit in the franchise?

It sounds amazing

I remember Clone Wars using rock music in some of the early seasons but I think it worked better in Andor!

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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StarkillerAG said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

The PT was definitely adult

Ah yes, because a cartoon alien stepping in camel poop while an annoying kid yells “Yippee!” is “definitely adult”. Are you sure we watched the same movies? The OT is way more mature than the prequels could ever hope to be.

No I know exactly what they mean. While the OT is very clear cut with the Rebels vs Empire conflict and frequently lighthearted, the PT has a more complex war where the ‘bad guys’ have terrible military leaders but are mostly made up of systems seeking self-determination, while the rise of Palpatine shows how dictators can manipulate a conflict to gain power. These kind of adult themes were completely absent from the OT.

Andor may be exploring the Republic’s darker side as well, since the soldiers on the crashed ship wear a Separatist symbol but are referred to as Republic soldiers by Maarva. I doubt that’s a mistake, the Republic may be up to something extremely sketchy.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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" No I know exactly what they mean. While the OT is very clear cut with the Rebels vs Empire conflict and frequently lighthearted, the PT has a more complex war where the ‘bad guys’ have terrible military leaders but are mostly made up of systems seeking self-determination, while the rise of Palpatine shows how dictators can manipulate a conflict to gain power. These kind of adult themes were completely absent from the OT. "

Gotta strongly disagree on these points ^ … while those systems in the PT are made up of systems seeking self determination ,we are merely told this and not shown it ,we never see these disaffected ordinary citizens in those movies . Those disaffected citizens are shown in the OT…they are the members of the rebellion who joined to fight the tyranny and oppression of the Empire as a consequence of those events .I wouldn’t say those adult themes are completely absent from the OT ,for instance " How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy? Governor Tarkin: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line ,fear of this battle station " Clearly showing a dictator manipulating a conflict or event to STAY in power ,which has real world implications in our “adult” world.

anyway , I am enjoying Andor and am glad to see the show delving into these disaffected citizens and a deeper look at the genesis of the rebellion .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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Vladius said:

I like what they’re doing but I wouldn’t compare him with Han. Two different things that are not supposed to be the same.

No they aren’t and that wasn’t really what I meant. To clarify, I mean they’re similar in how they make money and that they exist in a moral grey area.

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MalaStrana#2 said:

I’m a bit confused by the way it’s being praised as “adult” meaning “it’s good”

I can’t speak for the others here, but that’s not what I meant or said. If you inferred that correlation, that’s on you.

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NFBisms said:

On top of the finally competent execution and fiery writing, I just love how overtly political it is.

It goes so much further in its anti-fascist narrative than Star Wars ever has - placing responsibility for oppression not just on diabolical evildoers, but everyday corporate motivation - an upper class, the policing that protects their interests, the systemic abuse, and even the complacency/banality of those employed by said institutions.

The bad guys are all finally white guys again, and there’s no sympathy for a tragic antagonist here. The corpo we follow is a lawful, pathetic stick-in-the-mud with too much faith in the systems everyone else rightfully has palpable disgust/distrust for. A working class community gambles their freedom for one of their own. It’s not even calling out corruption, it’s reckoning with a capitalistic system working as it should (in spite of the corruption), and still being the oppressor. It’s angry and rebellious and has something to say I love that.

After years of having people complain black people in SW is political, this is actually political Star Wars and it rules

Dude settle down, if you want to go out and kill white people do it somewhere else

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Anchorhead said:

Vladius said:

I like what they’re doing but I wouldn’t compare him with Han. Two different things that are not supposed to be the same.

No they aren’t and that wasn’t really what I meant. To clarify, I mean they’re similar in how they make money and that they exist in a moral grey area.

Han isn’t an unrealistic character either though.

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Vladius said:

NFBisms said:

On top of the finally competent execution and fiery writing, I just love how overtly political it is.

It goes so much further in its anti-fascist narrative than Star Wars ever has - placing responsibility for oppression not just on diabolical evildoers, but everyday corporate motivation - an upper class, the policing that protects their interests, the systemic abuse, and even the complacency/banality of those employed by said institutions.

The bad guys are all finally white guys again, and there’s no sympathy for a tragic antagonist here. The corpo we follow is a lawful, pathetic stick-in-the-mud with too much faith in the systems everyone else rightfully has palpable disgust/distrust for. A working class community gambles their freedom for one of their own. It’s not even calling out corruption, it’s reckoning with a capitalistic system working as it should (in spite of the corruption), and still being the oppressor. It’s angry and rebellious and has something to say I love that.

After years of having people complain black people in SW is political, this is actually political Star Wars and it rules

Dude settle down, if you want to go out and kill white people do it somewhere else

Not what I meant, don’t worry! 😃

I’ve just always felt like the archetypal posh White Man that was the OT’s imperial officers was a great, if subtle, bit of worldbuilding and symbolism. There’s something about the poise and pomp in which they carried themselves that contrasted well with the dominantly American-coded rebels. The implicit commentary of it all even made it into the old EU, with those Imperial human-superiority elements.

That commentary has been lost a bit in recent SW stuff. Reva in OBK, Terisa in Squadrons, Rae Sloane, etc. I get the inclusion angle or whatever in modern media, but it always felt a bit off to me to include those minorities in the ostensible fascism analogue. Cool characters in their own right, but meaningless to the thematic fiber of the original films.

Andor goes all-in on the original analogues. Just even on a purely aesthetic level, it works far better for the anti-oppression narrative than sympathizing with or girlboss-ing a fascist. And that’s not to say it’s without humanity either. Cyril may be kind of joyless and meek, but he’s not lawfully wrong and he’s trying to make something work within the system. There are echoes of Piett there, Ozzel in Chief Hyne, etc. It’s not meaningless politicism, it really has something to say about what motivates and fosters support of Power. Really good stuff

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

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I do really like Syril Karn as a very different kind of Star Wars antagonist because he’s not an evil space wizard, he’s just a cog in the system.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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Right, the “banality of evil.” It’s a lot more interesting than overt maliciousness. Making someone a “good guy deep down” isn’t the only way to add depth to an antagonist

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

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I just google searched the cast of this and aside from Andor and Mon Mothma they are all new.
And parked at the far right of the screen is ALAN TUDYK, as K2.
I had heard K2 was NOT in this season what the what the?

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Vladius said:

Anchorhead said:

Vladius said:

I like what they’re doing but I wouldn’t compare him with Han. Two different things that are not supposed to be the same.

No they aren’t and that wasn’t really what I meant. To clarify, I mean they’re similar in how they make money and that they exist in a moral grey area.

Han isn’t an unrealistic character either though.

No, he isn’t. Just less dangerous and with a lot less at stake. Though we never see his house, Han appears to live comfortably. He has his own ship and runs a sometimes questionable side hustle. Cassian on the other hand, has to borrow a ship if he wants to go off-planet, lives in near squalor, and makes a living stealing. Sometimes from a burgeoning Empire, and with the hopes of bringing them down. When he’s not sneaking into their facilities and spitting in their food.

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Anchorhead said:

Vladius said:

Anchorhead said:

Vladius said:

I like what they’re doing but I wouldn’t compare him with Han. Two different things that are not supposed to be the same.

No they aren’t and that wasn’t really what I meant. To clarify, I mean they’re similar in how they make money and that they exist in a moral grey area.

Han isn’t an unrealistic character either though.

No, he isn’t. Just less dangerous and with a lot less at stake. Though we never see his house, Han appears to live comfortably. He has his own ship and runs a sometimes questionable side hustle. Cassian on the other hand, has to borrow a ship if he wants to go off-planet, lives in near squalor, and makes a living stealing. Sometimes from a burgeoning Empire, and with the hopes of bringing them down. When he’s not sneaking into their facilities and spitting in their food.

He’s constantly in debt and on the run from both crime lords (with bounty hunters) and the Empire, then has to live in a frozen wasteland and who knows where else to stay with the rebellion, gets captured and tortured by Darth Vader, then frozen and kept as a trophy. It’s not a side hustle, it’s a main hustle before he joins the rebellion, and if he does it wrong he will get killed. The Falcon is a great ship but it’s constantly falling apart and needing repairs. Han has fun flying and Chewbacca is a pretty good friend to have but it’s not exactly comfortable. If you go by the Solo movie, he grew up pretty much exactly like Cassian, orphaned on a planet dominated by the Empire, having to steal to survive. Arguably worse because he was enslaved by some weird alien instead of raised by a kindly scavenger.

I think what you’re getting at is that Han’s story is more of a classic romantic adventure, whereas Cassian’s story is deliberately less glamorous. Though when he becomes a spy and goes on spy adventures that will change.

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I like how some are implying that the original movie was more adult. It wasn’t. Lucas’s target audience was always about 11 for the movies. I feel the target audience for this one is more like 20. I grew up in the 70’s and many of the things in Star Wars are reflected in the movies and TV shows of that time. Evening TV had to be family rated, even the adult shows. That is the feeling of Star Wars. It is something that Lucas and Disney have always aligned on. Firmly Friendly entertainment that has something for the younger viewers and layers that only adults will get.

Today is a much different world and Andor is probably the first Star Wars series intended for an older audience. I’d say that The Mandalorian was a little more adult, but mostly Star Wars had just had hints of this world, even while dealing with a rebellion. I mean, how many millions died on the two Death Stars? Was that ever mentioned. No. Only that Darth Vader and the Emperor were ruthless in their control and rule of the galaxy. Vader was the face of evil, but on the grand scale of things, Darth Vader wasn’t seen to do much that was evil. His stormtroopers frying Owen and Beru is probably the worst thing in the original trilogy, but he didn’t do that himself.

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Vladius said:

I think what you’re getting at is that Han’s story is more of a classic romantic adventure, whereas Cassian’s story is deliberately less glamorous. Though when he becomes a spy and goes on spy adventures that will change.

It is more classic romanticism. As to all the things you pointed out about Han, none of that happened until Ben and Luke came into the picture. Prior to that, I don’t see anything in 1977 that suggests he lives anywhere near as dangerously as Cassian or with anywhere near the constant fear and desperation.

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I like the set design a lot. I don’t think Star Wars has had set design I’ve liked this much since the OT. Feels like a weird opinion to have but I have it

Reading R + L ≠ J theories

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Anchorhead said:

Vladius said:

I think what you’re getting at is that Han’s story is more of a classic romantic adventure, whereas Cassian’s story is deliberately less glamorous. Though when he becomes a spy and goes on spy adventures that will change.

It is more classic romanticism. As to all the things you pointed out about Han, none of that happened until Ben and Luke came into the picture. Prior to that, I don’t see anything in 1977 that suggests he lives anywhere near as dangerously as Cassian or with anywhere near the constant fear and desperation.

Our first introduction to Han is he’s negotiating a highly illegal and dangerous smuggling deal to pay off a crime lord who he owes a LOT of money. Then he has a deadly shootout with a bounty hunter in a bar that’s so seedy hardly anyone bats an eye at deadly violence happening in their midst. Han’s life might be more classically “romantic adventure” than Cassian’s but I’d hesitate to call it less dangerous.

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Anchorhead said:

Vladius said:

I think what you’re getting at is that Han’s story is more of a classic romantic adventure, whereas Cassian’s story is deliberately less glamorous. Though when he becomes a spy and goes on spy adventures that will change.

It is more classic romanticism. As to all the things you pointed out about Han, none of that happened until Ben and Luke came into the picture. Prior to that, I don’t see anything in 1977 that suggests he lives anywhere near as dangerously as Cassian or with anywhere near the constant fear and desperation.

Having Greedo come into the Cantina to try and shoot him doesn’t count?

Han definitely doesn’t have the personality to live in fear. Happy-go-lucky is more his style, but in a life full of gangsters, the Empire, and constant danger of things going south, he lives on the edge, but never in fear. He always has hope that the next job will turn things around. And he has enough luck that that hope is not completely misplaced, though he never manages to get that awesome payoff. He starts off with a hard edge and Luke seems to soften him a bit. We see that change in ANH and it is much softer in TESB and ROTJ. In Brian Daley’s books he has more that hard edge, though not as hard as what we see on Tatooine.

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All,

Let me clear up something before we waste any more time on this tangent. I’m not knocking Han in-universe or as written. It’s very likely that Han was my hero before most of you were born. I don’t need him explained to me. My point, and I stand by it, is that he’s nowhere near as dangerous a person as Cassian, nor is he ever in as much danger. When we meet him, he’s in trouble with one gangster because a single deal went sideways. If he were in any real trouble, he wouldn’t be hanging out in a bar down the road from the guy to whom he owes money.

As someone said earlier, he’s more of a happy-go-lucky type of guy. He’s selfish (as Leia points out), and has no apparent passion or higher cause. As presented, he comes across as a legitimate charter who sometimes takes side gigs smuggling. He’s shown to be that in EU novels also. Everyone we see him kill is in self defense. Cassian practically lives a witness protection lifestyle no matter which planet he’s on. We see him kill people in cold blood, not necessarily in self defense because he never waits that long.

They both make money illegally, they’re both interesting to watch, and both are sort of anti-heroes, but they are not the same types of people.

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Anchorhead said:

All,

Let me clear up something before we waste any more time on this tangent. I’m not knocking Han in-universe or as written. It’s very likely that Han was my hero before most of you were born. I don’t need him explained to me. My point, and I stand by it, is that he’s nowhere near as dangerous a person as Cassian, nor is he ever in as much danger. When we meet him, he’s in trouble with one gangster because a single deal went sideways. If he were in any real trouble, he wouldn’t be hanging out in a bar down the road from the guy to whom he owes money.

As someone said earlier, he’s more of a happy-go-lucky type of guy. He’s selfish (as Leia points out), and has no apparent passion or higher cause. As presented, he comes across as a legitimate charter who sometimes takes side gigs smuggling. He’s shown to be that in EU novels also. Everyone we see him kill is in self defense. Cassian practically lives a witness protection lifestyle no matter which planet he’s on. We see him kill people in cold blood, not necessarily in self defense because he never waits that long.

They both make money illegally, they’re both interesting to watch, and both are sort of anti-heroes, but they are not the same types of people.

That makes it quite clear and I quite agree.

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Just watched episode 4 …damn ! This show is awesome! Although, I have read a lot of articles saying there is no fan service in this series, I have seen a lot of it so far , but not the typical stuff for the most part, rather ,a lot of stuff drawn from the early EU stories .if you watch with subtitles, it’s even more apparent. In the case of the most recent episode, there’s also mention of a collector of things who is very similar to a character in the 2016 novel Bloodline

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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“The Andor Identity”

Well, watched 2 episodes so far and I’m already disappointed: it’s just a teenage show trying to appear “adult” because they removed any vibrant colors… at least it looks decent, albeit too clean for a “used space” approach, so it never feels Star Wars: it could be a far sequel to Game of Thrones. It doesn’t tell much over the full 1 hour of the first two episodes combined, which should not surprise me because it was also the case with the tidious first half of Rogue One. More surprinsing is the music: no lesson learned after the Ben show, so yet again a shitty soundtrack that could basically fit everything, hence representing nothing. And again a story mixed with flash backs that don’t have any bearing on the present day sequences. To be noted that Gilroy still doesn’t know how to create vilains without making him look ridiculous after only a couple scenes…let’s see if the third episode gets some pay off…

Bland and boring: I’ll check out the next two episodes but I’ll sure won’t keep watching if it stays that uninteresting and flat. If it ever turns into some “The Andor Supremacy”, I might watch longer.

So long 🙌

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“The Andor Legacy”

Fourth episode contains the perfect quote to define this tv series:

“Must everything be boring and sad?”

So long 🙌