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Can you imagine Han fighting Luke, that is what the duel in ROTS should have felt like. — Page 2
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Originally posted by: TheCassidy
^ Well, that's you, and many others to be sure, but I sure was moved during the last few moments of 'Sith.' I cared about Anakin & Obi-Wan, hell, even the droids...
I was too, but only because of how I felt about them from the OT. Was this the same for you?
The pT honestly does nothing to convince me Obi and annie were Good friends, padme, only the sincerity in Alec Guinness' words could do that... In fact, it's only from obi-wan's side that their friendship is at all believable.
It had to have been the bad acting during their supposed "best friend ever" scenes. (Points finger at Hayden, wherever he is.)B ecause I just wasn't feeling any of it, no where near as strongly as the "I hate you!" craziness was. But once again, from an actor in Obi-wan's Jedi robes, the emotional connection is made crystal clear through body language, intonation, and exactly what he says, "You were like a brother, Anakin. I loved you" I believe you Obi, since you're so cool, but I really wish I could have witnessed this brotherly love.
Luke and Han could muster up an sort-of old chum relationship that really came through because of MH's boyish spirit mixing up with the mature, manly stature that Harrison ford personifies to the last letter.(Plus they keep saving each other's lives which lucas tried to squeeze into the PT through RotS after fumbling the ball by simply mentioning all the life-saving
good friendship type stuff... ) If only...I was drinking some mountain dew while watching Anakin cry about turning evil and then later burning, it's his story, that's how it ends, but after finishing my dew, I felt more for Obi-wan and how screwed he and his kind were. I wish he were the chosen one instead.
"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."
"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.
http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Anyways, agree agree with however posted it blatantly about how the audience has a real hard time connecting with the people in the PT. I think it has to do with one big thing....acting. Ewan Mcgregor is good and he's proven it in the PT (for the most part) and in many other movies he's made. He just has that good quality that makes you really kinda respect him and connect. Hayden...well he is not good. It might be just GL's dialogue but even EM could pull that off good....hayden just can't seem to be convincing on any level IMO. They way he acted for much of the final battle was just bad aside from the "I hate you." Natalie Portman...who know what happened here. She is pretty good. Hell in The Professional she should a huge future in acting naturally and convincingly....at 12 years old or something. The dialogue is seriously at faoult for her but she still has moment were she just can't seem to do it right.....and some where she can.
Of those 3 main characters, Obi-Wan's problems and story are the only one people really seem t care about because he makes you through his rather good acting and thats bad considering its suppose to be Anakins story. In conclusion they shoulda found some people for these parts that can do crappy dialogue more convincingly.
PS....maybe some of it somes from many of us secretely being pissed off that we didn't get to play Anakin and some shotty actor that turns out to be no good at it got to play one of the most desired roles in movie history....and were the costume......damn him.......DAMN HIM!!!!!
Hey look, a bear!
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http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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Originally posted by: theredbaron
Yeah, when I found out that they were filming a great deal of it in Australia, I wanted to be Anakin in II and III. I was the right age for it, and I have Luke-ish hair, blue eyes, yada yada yada.
How tall are you, Red Baron?
Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
impossible, this could not have happened no matter how hard gorge tried, why because we knew it was coming. i think it would have be soooooooo much better if lucas had kept everything about the PT quite from the begining. so that no one knew about the clone wars, or the anakin obiwan battle, or any of that. so much fo the PT was ruined by the fact that people already knew so many key plot points, think for a second how good the PT would have been if boom outta nowhere the clone wars started in AOTCs, no one would ahve known about it and everyone would been like holy shit a galactic waar OMG. or when anakin started fighting Obiwan, if the fact that obiwan had beat anakin but a volcano and left him for dead wasnt know think about how that scene would have been. that right there is lucas's big mistake. if the PT was 100% peoples imagination and stuff they got from the OT the PT would have been so much better. cause you would have had "I AM YOUR FATHER" surprises in there.
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I definitely agree with your post, the biggest achilles heel of the prequels is that we knew the story. While your watching TPM, you knew that ObiWan, Padme, little Anakin, Palpatine, and Yoda were in no real sense of danger, because we knew, except for Padme's fate, they would be in Episode IV.
The biggest challenge Lucas faced was our imagination. We all had an idea of how Anakin turns to Darth Vader, how the duel would be, how they would wisk Luke & Leia away to their foster parents, how the Jedi would be taken out one by one, and how Yoda and Kenobi would go into hiding. That is pretty much the main facts of the prequels, where are the suprises?
Sure, the PT could have been better, with Lucas letting go from TOTAL control of the PT, and more like he did in the OT. Sure the kiddiness factor could have been toned down in the TPM, and well I won't defend Jar Jar, that was just a mistake.
I think the real reason the PT would never be as good was the characters. No matter if Lucas did things many different ways than the way he filmed these movies, Luke, Leia, and Han Solo are just lovable characters that cannot be matched. They had PERFECT chemistry, and that was like lightning in a bottle. The PT was about ObiWan, Padme, and Anakin, even if they were cast to perfection I still don't think we would have loved them as much as the OT big 3.
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Originally posted by: COQuote
Originally posted by: Shimraa
impossible, this could not have happened no matter how hard gorge tried, why because we knew it was coming. i think it would have be soooooooo much better if lucas had kept everything about the PT quite from the begining. so that no one knew about the clone wars, or the anakin obiwan battle, or any of that. so much fo the PT was ruined by the fact that people already knew so many key plot points, think for a second how good the PT would have been if boom outta nowhere the clone wars started in AOTCs, no one would ahve known about it and everyone would been like holy shit a galactic waar OMG. or when anakin started fighting Obiwan, if the fact that obiwan had beat anakin but a volcano and left him for dead wasnt know think about how that scene would have been. that right there is lucas's big mistake. if the PT was 100% peoples imagination and stuff they got from the OT the PT would have been so much better. cause you would have had "I AM YOUR FATHER" surprises in there.
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I definitely agree with your post, the biggest achilles heel of the prequels is that we knew the story. While your watching TPM, you knew that ObiWan, Padme, little Anakin, Palpatine, and Yoda were in no real sense of danger, because we knew, except for Padme's fate, they would be in Episode IV.
The biggest challenge Lucas faced was our imagination. We all had an idea of how Anakin turns to Darth Vader, how the duel would be, how they would wisk Luke & Leia away to their foster parents, how the Jedi would be taken out one by one, and how Yoda and Kenobi would go into hiding. That is pretty much the main facts of the prequels, where are the suprises?
Sure, the PT could have been better, with Lucas letting go from TOTAL control of the PT, and more like he did in the OT. Sure the kiddiness factor could have been toned down in the TPM, and well I won't defend Jar Jar, that was just a mistake.
I think the real reason the PT would never be as good was the characters. No matter if Lucas did things many different ways than the way he filmed these movies, Luke, Leia, and Han Solo are just lovable characters that cannot be matched. They had PERFECT chemistry, and that was like lightning in a bottle. The PT was about ObiWan, Padme, and Anakin, even if they were cast to perfection I still don't think we would have loved them as much as the OT big 3.
I have to agree but it doesnt excuse the crap like Jar Jar Caotain Tarpals and two headed pod race announcers etc and pointless plot points like Qui-Gonn finding Anakin, Anakin building 3p0 etc (which leave possible inconsistencies and things up to the viewers interpretation) etc, I was happy to give Lucas full liscene to bring the backstory to life without my imagination clouding the issue, To me some parts the things I imagined were exceeded and pleasently suprised by Lucas' interpretation of things, but others I felt dissapointed by his interpretaion of things which could have been done better, and the overall exection of the P.T story(though I like the basic story) he had put in front of us was not realised to its full potential,and which I will always feel was damaged by the crappier elements of TPM and it flowed over in to the next two movies, I will always contend to the end that Lucas should have got a decent collebrating team(eg Empire Strikes Back) to work with him, instead of basically having doing everything which would seen less critism of the dialouge etc and then maybe/maybe not we would have had the chemistry(I doubt it personally myself) of the big 3 in the O.T and would made certain things more convincing, and maybe the crappier elements of the P.T would have been discarded,
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In that respect that is where I think Lucas has lost alittle of his edge toward moviemaking. If you watch ESB, then watch TPM, you wonder if it is the same saga sometimes? Sure, ESB is dark, and TPM is the lighthearted before everything goes to hell, but Lucas definitley miscalculated TPM, and some of AOTC with utter silliness that didn't need to be in the movie.
The Two headed announcer, all of Jar Jar, the fart jokes, Dex in AOTC, what was that all about? And C-3PO cracking jokes during the Clone Wars! Come on, this should have been a serious battle, instead you have C-3PO throwing awful one-liners every three minutes.
The reason these are bad, is even the Prequel defenders say, "Yeah the dialogue is bad, the love story isn't that great, and Jar Jar is overdone, but I still like the movies. If the people that hate the movies see it, and the people who like the movies see it, how come Lucas couldn't.
My opinion is after ESB, we were fully hitched to Star Wars, and everything he put out were gonna show up for it. Remember he told Kershner before filming ESB, "This has to be better than the original, if it isn't, there are no more movies." That to me showed that Lucas was determined to put out an A+ product, that resembled nothing of the original movie, but would still be as great.
Then in ROTJ, and I do still love it, but it is not as good as the Star Wars & ESB, the movie has recycled plots, character dialogue which is not as crisp as ESB, and the Ewoks! The ending is great, and that is what makes the movie. But you could definitely see that Lucas was satisfied with a product that was very good, rather than great.
In the PT, I think he felt the same way. I will make something good, but I am not going the extra mile to make it great, because in the end Star Wars is going to make a boat load of money.
Now this is my opinion, but definitely Lucas hasn't had the hunger to make a great Star Wars film in 25 years, oh well.
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Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana JonesQuote
Originally posted by: theredbaron
Yeah, when I found out that they were filming a great deal of it in Australia, I wanted to be Anakin in II and III. I was the right age for it, and I have Luke-ish hair, blue eyes, yada yada yada.
How tall are you, Red Baron?
Ummm...I think I'm 177 centimetres. I don't know how that works out in Imperial...maybe 5' 12'?
http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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Originally posted by: CO
But you could definitely see that Lucas was satisfied with a product that was very good, rather than great.
In the PT, I think he felt the same way. I will make something good, but I am not going the extra mile to make it great, because in the end Star Wars is going to make a boat load of money.
Now this is my opinion, but definitely Lucas hasn't had the hunger to make a great Star Wars film in 25 years, oh well.
Along with all the other stuff I contend with regards to the PT, I honestly believe that if GL had a LOT less money to play with, then it would likely have been awesome. When someone is given parameters and limitations and they strive to create something great, they squander all the creative possibilities within those limitations.
http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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Originally posted by: theredbaronQuote
Originally posted by: CO
But you could definitely see that Lucas was satisfied with a product that was very good, rather than great.
In the PT, I think he felt the same way. I will make something good, but I am not going the extra mile to make it great, because in the end Star Wars is going to make a boat load of money.
Now this is my opinion, but definitely Lucas hasn't had the hunger to make a great Star Wars film in 25 years, oh well.
Along with all the other stuff I contend with regards to the PT, I honestly believe that if GL had a LOT less money to play with, then it would likely have been awesome. When someone is given parameters and limitations and they strive to create something great, they squander all the creative possibilities within those limitations.
Yeah, that theory has been proposed a lot of times, and it's one I hold strongly to. Limitations encourage creativity, which is obvious from at least the first two movies. They were inventing stuff, having to circumvent stuff, and trying desperately to stay in budget, and it all worked out great.
And like Bungle, I like the overall story of the prequels about the political problems and coups and wars. It's all very interesting. I actually prefer to simply sumarize the prequels in my mind. Because when you add in the details, like specific things about characters and delivery, that's when everything goes to hell. It's all about the details.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
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There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
your absolutly right, the overall story of the PT was brillent, it was so intricate and the way pals took over was pretty cool, but when you look at the finer things in the movies they get bad.
But (the sad thing?) it could have been very easily avoided I feel, as said(many times) had George collebrated properly with others decided to stick (exactly) to the outline of story presented in the C.T, cut out the overlong FX sequences and cut the Jar Jar and 3-PO type crap(all of which could have been done and all could have been avoided), they may have well have been up there with(or heaven forbid surpassed) the originals(but no chance in hell with all those things) and may not had so many critics both from fans and the media reviews
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I just think GL got too complacent with SW for a while and stress/no guarantee of success always seemed to make GL work harder.
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There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
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Yeah there such moments in Sith and the prequels in general unlike the Classics(maybe my bias where everything to me is o.k even the Ewoks and Jabba stuff(only would come near), sure the Classics dialouge and acting wasnt shakespeare but it beats the hell out of prequel dialouge and acting) The balcony was a prime example(though topped by the Clones love dialouge) my other cringing moments in Sith the usually good and reliable Ian Mcdiarmid going "No No you must die " or whatever and the generally awful(in the film) Natalie Portman on Mustafar "your breaking my heart" "and "hold me like you did by the Lake on Naboo when there was nothing but our love etc" though I can live with crap acting and dialouge they were cringeworthy, other than that I really do like the film