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Community Focus Thread 1: The Phantom Menace — Page 16

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EddieDean said:

If the Jedi begin on their mission to broker peace between Gungans and Naboo, then Jar Jar could simply be their go-between/guide/facilitator. (He could even be their Representative, which has supporting voice lines.) You also don’t necessarily need to have them leave in the bongo - after the Otoh Gunga scenes you could potentially cut to the second half of the scene where they originally meet Jar Jar, where the Jedi and Jar Jar talk more (ending with, for example, my ‘we must hurry’, eventually cutting back to them appearing in Theed having travelled there offscreen.)

I think I’ve got an idea for a good opening that does exactly that. Something like this:
-Crawl
-Jedi traveling to Otoh-Gunga
-Politicians in Theed, comunication disruption
-Trade Federation arrives above Naboo and start an invasion immediately
-Qui-Gon and company are surprised by battle droids while on their way to theed

I think I’ll have a rough cut ready next week.

“Vader! Hologram, now!”

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I personally am a fan of Otoh-Gunga. Mainly for the visual spectacle of it all. However I understand cutting it too. Perhaps it could just use some trims here and there to increase the pacing.

“You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view” — Obi-Wan Kenobi

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EddieDean said:

Another option to preserve Otoh Gunga, though more radical and mutually exclusive from the above ideas, would be to have the Jedi visit the city upon their RETURN to Coruscant, failing to convince Boss Nass to help them but at least convincing him to meet the Queen, transitioning then into the Queen-meets-Boss-Nass scenes where she wins him over.

The Ancient Lore actually took this approach, and it worked surprisingly well

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EddieDean said:

Apologies if this has already been covered, but is there a mirror or updated link to this clip? It’s down but I for one would quite like to see this concept. TheAlaskanSandman only ever posted stills, and NV II’s clip on Youtube is rather rough.

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If someone skilled painted Dooku’s hair and beard to brown in this scene, it would’ve been a perfect introduction of him in TPM.

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 (Edited)

I want Dooku to have a brief cameo in TPM and to have Maul be redubbed using Witwer, and some implication Maul survives his faul.

I’m also personally against having Qui-gon’s bet free Shmii & Anakin, it’s not stated as such in the films or TCW, but one of Anakin’s core frustrations with the Jedi is their refusal to let him go rescue his mom and end slavery on Tatooine.

In the Ahsoka novel, we get a scene of Obi-Wan after he has visited Shmii’s grave for the first time and he’s reflecting in the shame he feels for having failed Anakin. And the text explicitly says that he feels an even deeper shame for having personally stood in Anakin’s way to keep him from coming back for Shmii.

I know that sentiment is not in the movies, or TCW, and isn’t likely to be in OK either, but it’s also a really easy inference to make, imo.

My Edits:
Revenge of the Sith: Refocused Available

The Clone Wars Refocused: The Chosen One (Mortis Episode)

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Hey it’s great to have this thread to collectively try new things. This could produce some great new shots for future edits. And all the new helpful tech like AI speech softwares… my oh my. 😛

About the idea of Qui Gon speaking to Anakin through the Force while still alive (some pages back): While the idea is pretty well executed in the test video, I always thought that the one ability the Jedi can harness only in the force afterlife is giving wisdom straight to the pupils mind. For me, that’s one of the main points why Obi sacrificed himself in Ep. IV as he was getting old for the ”living battles”. I mean, what is the benefit of the sacrifice otherwise?

I’m interested about the ideas of reshuffling the beginning, from the effects point of view. Ships and escape pods are probably the best way to start practising 3D modelling since they have very few moving parts. Does anyone know which is better for creating cinemating objects and environments now, Blender or Unreal engine 5? And which is easier to learn from scratch?

And very cool to get a mention in the first post.😉

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Dazman said:

Does anyone know which is better for creating cinemating objects and environments now, Blender or Unreal engine 5? And which is easier to learn from scratch?

I haven’t actually tried UE yet (might have to some time), but Blender 3.0’s been pretty easy to pick up and learn for me… with the only caveat that Cycles render times are a nightmare and a half. Then again, guess that render quality is kind of overkill considering the rest of the CG in the films

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 (Edited)

G&G-Fan said:

I remember earlier there was discussion about whether it was Lucas’ intention to depict the Jedi as flawed and arrogant and that they failed Anakin. Well the answer to that is no.

https://www.quora.com/What-was-George-Lucas-trying-to-say-in-the-prequels/answer/David-Talks-SW

I recommend reading this guy’s answers, he’s really good and does a lot of research.

This guy knows his stuff. A very well researched answer.

The whole modern fan interpretation that “the Jedi failed Anakin” had always bugged me. It’s not supported by the films themselves or by George’s words. Anakin’s main grievances with the Jedi were simply that they weren’t promoting him fast enough and not teaching him everything about the Force asap.

I never knew that Anakin had long hair to parallel Qui-gon. That’s a surprise to me.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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 (Edited)

I know the current idea is to skip the Negotiations opening, but recently I’ve started my own attempt to streamline it as practice. Not sure if I’ll turn it into an edit on it’s own so dropping here incase anyone finds it interesting.

(Apologies for the upcoming wall of text)

Basically for this rough cut I:

  • Removed the permission to land bit, like a fair few edits
  • Removed the first shot of TC 14 introducing themselves
  • Cut the intro of Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon around when Qui-Gon tells Obi-Wan to be mindful of the living force
  • J Cut to TC 14 reporting the Jedi. Quickened a few of the reactions from the Nemoidians by splicing multiple parts of shots together, subtle change but made the other guy say to send the Droids, plural, skipping the Sidious discussion entirely, to make the Federation seem more independent.
  • Cut the scene of TC 14 serving the Jedi Tea a bit sooner, skipping Qui-Gon taking a sip, moving straight to
  • The ship blowing up, skipping the Jedi’s reaction and the shot of the room filling with gas, instead a small group of droids just walk in, see the cloudy room, and then the lightsabers
  • Cut a few lines/reaction shots during the action sequence to make the Nemoidians seem less incompetent
  • Reshuffle events a little, after the Jedi run off the Viceroys are pre occupied by The Queen calling, only cut back to the Jedi in the hanger when the Nemoidians claim there were no ambassadors
  • Cut back after Qui-Gon mentions his plan to land on the planet, snip a few lines in the dialogue and work in the “I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war”, trying to make Amidala appear stronger
  • End the scene on Naboo when the beared guy says the word “Invasion”, as the rest of the scene felt pretty clumsily done

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16YAhcpxM0La0k0mrK9i54WkObBv4qdoi/view

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 (Edited)

I spend the last week finishing my attempt at an fast paced Opening for TPM.
Key plot points are:

-new status quo at the beginning of the movie: The Trade Federation isn’t even in the picture yet, the main conflict is the tension between the Gungan (Warriors) and the Naboo (Pacifist)*

-the Jedi are send to diffuse the situation

-The Trade Federation exploit the instability and invades the planet

-The Jedi save the queen and speed away

But see for yourself:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CiqeDqziCzEtLhAEtYz6QHoP6qq3Z_Ex/view?usp=sharing

P.S.: * I think this set-up highlights on of the core dilemmas shaping the Jedi identity quite nicely, on the one hand they’re peaceful monks and on the other they practice cutting off peoples extremities or bisecting them.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention that there are some quiet cracks with the audio (mainly during the Throne room scene), sorry for that, its a problem with my source, that I only discovered after it was basically finished.

“Vader! Hologram, now!”

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I like what you have here, but the Trade Federation seeking to take advantage of the situation needs to close out the intro text. Otherwise, the invasion is too out of left field.

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 (Edited)

Sorta agree. The base idea of the Jedi initially being sent to settle the feud between the Gungans and Naboo is an interesting idea, and could help tie together their cooperation at the end a lot better… but the Federation should be an established presence too.

Some suggestions:

The crawl needs a few more drafts imo. Alongside setting the Federation up as taking the Naboo v Gungan Crisis as an opportunity, it needs a few more drafts for the grammar and the like.

One thing that’d need new VFX is a proper pandown of the planet. Perhaps it can show the blockade arriving from hyperspace or something (if I had a good model of the donut ships, I could probably mock something up), before transitioning to the scene of the Jedi swimming to the Gungan city (removing that first shot of the Bongo, since I feel it was more confusing than anything else).

Better yet, said shot of the Federation arriving could be before the scene in the Queen’s throne room, suddenly throwing a wrench into the equation, while simultaneously properly setting the Federation up instead of them just kinda… appearing.

Some personal things: I’d remove the line from Panaka about the Federation needing Padme to sign a treaty, I think the bearded guy’s “They wouldn’t dare!” is enough, and Panaka’s line is pretty clunky. I’d also cut down the whole “Where are you taking them?” “To Coruscant” part.

Otherwise, this has gotta be my favorite of the proposed alternate openings. Definitely a creative idea.

Also gotta say, I love the addition of the Vulture Droids soaring overhead tipping the Jedi off about the invasion. I genuinely had to go back to see if they were in the original film or not.

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Maybe like this:

Crisis on Naboo! Mounting tension between her people and her he tribal Gungan pushed QUEEN AMIDALA, sovereign of the Naboo, to plead the Galactic Senate to intevene.

Hindered by war profiteers and those that see instability as an opportunity alike, chancellor Valorum secretly dispatched two Jedi, chivalrous warriors and ancient scholars of the force, to aid her in his stead.

As the TRADE FEDERATION readily gears their supply with war machinery, Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn and his apprentice Obi-Wan Kenobi sped to the evergreen planet of Naboo to negotiate the tides and settle the conflict…

It mentions the Trade federation by name and hopefully indicates what will happen without being to concrete.

“Vader! Hologram, now!”

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 (Edited)

My suggestion is something like:

There is a Great Disturbance in the Force! For centuries, the peaceful people of Naboo and the neighboring warrior race of the GUNGANS have lived in a shaky state of peace. However now tension threatens to engulf the planet in CIVIL WAR, causing QUEEN AMIDALA to plead to the Senate for some sort of solution to this conflict.

Hindered by war profiteers and those that see instability as an opportunity alike, Supreme Chancellor Valorum has secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights, chivalrous warriors and ancient scholars of the Force, to aid the young Queen of Naboo in his stead.

Unknown to all, a dark force lingers within the shadows, waiting for the opportunity to strike, as Jedi Master QUI-GON JINN and his young apprentice OBI-WAN KENOBI make their way to the Gungan underwater city to settle the conflict between the two races…

(Note: Could probably use some condensing, but sorta trying to get the general ideas across. Keeping your proposed middle paragraph.)

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NotTheDri0ds said:

Sorta agree. The base idea of the Jedi initially being sent to settle the feud between the Gungans and Naboo is an interesting idea, and could help tie together their cooperation at the end a lot better… but the Federation should be an established presence too.

Some suggestions:

The crawl needs a few more drafts imo. Alongside setting the Federation up as taking the Naboo v Gungan Crisis as an opportunity, it needs a few more drafts for the grammar and the like.

One thing that’d need new VFX is a proper pandown of the planet. Perhaps it can show the blockade arriving from hyperspace or something (if I had a good model of the donut ships, I could probably mock something up), before transitioning to the scene of the Jedi swimming to the Gungan city (removing that first shot of the Bongo, since I feel it was more confusing than anything else).

Better yet, said shot of the Federation arriving could be before the scene in the Queen’s throne room, suddenly throwing a wrench into the equation, while simultaneously properly setting the Federation up instead of them just kinda… appearing.

Some personal things: I’d remove the line from Panaka about the Federation needing Padme to sign a treaty, I think the bearded guy’s “They wouldn’t dare!” is enough, and Panaka’s line is pretty clunky. I’d also cut down the whole “Where are you taking them?” “To Coruscant” part.

Otherwise, this has gotta be my favorite of the proposed alternate openings. Definitely a creative idea.

Also gotta say, I love the addition of the Vulture Droids soaring overhead tipping the Jedi off about the invasion. I genuinely had to go back to see if they were in the original film or not.

Sorry about the grammar, I have a habit of throwing in commas at random, regardless of what language I’m typing.

In regards to the establishing shot of the invasion army, I‘d be glad if someone could help me with that.

The idea behind the bongo in the first shot was actually to substitute the classic opening shot as it looks like space ship anyway. That‘s also why I’m fading between the starfield moving up and the underwater scenery, the idea was to make the upwards moving stars look like bubbles. Maybe I have to extend the shot before the bongo appears and add some real air bubbles.
Also I could rotoscope the bongo passing above Jar Jar and the Jedi towards the city, if that helps.

Leaving the opening as it is and removing the federation ships blockading the planet might be another option to open the movie and a more star-warsy one add that, but I’m really not keen on the roto work.
And I simply like the underwater opening better as it is essentially the Star Wars formula, but with a small twist.

I really like your suggestions for the hangar scenes and will definitely play Amarion’s with them.

Regarding the vulture droids fly by, I originally wanted to include a short reaction from Jar Jar, but I couldn’t find anything that worked.

“Vader! Hologram, now!”

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NotTheDri0ds said:

My suggestion is something like:

There is a Great Disturbance in the Force! For centuries, the peaceful people of Naboo and the neighboring warrior race of the GUNGANS have lived in a shaky state of peace. However now tension threatens to engulf the planet in CIVIL WAR, causing QUEEN AMIDALA to plead to the Senate for some sort of solution to this conflict.

Hindered by war profiteers and those that see instability as an opportunity alike, Supreme Chancellor Valorum has secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights, chivalrous warriors and ancient scholars of the Force, to aid the young Queen of Naboo in his stead.

Unknown to all, a dark force lingers within the shadows, waiting for the opportunity to strike, as Jedi Master QUI-GON JINN and his young apprentice OBI-WAN KENOBI make their way to the Gungan underwater city to settle the conflict between the two races…

(Note: Could probably use some condensing, but sorta trying to get the general ideas across. Keeping your proposed middle paragraph.)

Maybe a tad bit to long but might be a good start. The line about „those that see instability as an opportunity“ is especially one I’d like to keep as it the exact wording palpatine uses in ROTS to manipulate Anakin.

“Vader! Hologram, now!”

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 (Edited)

Wow, I really like this idea! The two biggest issues I had with the introduction were those that took out all momentum before you’d even begun: Firstly the Jedi on the Trade Federation ship, and secondly the Jedi’s introduction to Jar Jar. But my earlier idea, to skip the TF ship, robbed the Jedi of some useful context and their official role as negotiators, and left you with a lot of work to introduce them to Jar Jar.

Having the Jedi’s purpose being to negotiate with the Gungans and Naboo is a far more elegant idea - and then the Trade Federation attack can come as a suprise. It’s also far neater than worrying about trade negotiations and taxation - if we set up Gungans/Naboo as the central conflict, it’s well paid off by the later plot elements which bring it full circle, and I think make up for the additional focus on the Gungans. We’ve also spoken a lot in this thread about anchoring the plot of this first film much more around Queen Amidala and Naboo, allowing the other world-building elements (for future films) to emerge naturally through the story.

I might not execute the idea exactly as you did, but the idea of a quick context-setting negotiation that fails, followed by a suprise invasion and escape, is far more interesting and keeps the energy up where it’s needed. I might give this a bash myself.

I also loved how you used some alternate lines, including Qui-Gon’s “anxieties” line and Jar Jar’s “negotiations” from the Clone Wars.

Here’s a quick little attempt at a crawl.

The Galactic Republic is failing. As
its ability to protect its worlds
diminishes, the greedy TRADE FEDERATION
have grown increasingly bold in their
quest to exploit vulnerable planets.

QUEEN AMIDALA, elected ruler of the
verdant planet Naboo, stands as a vocal
champion of peace. But tension is
growing between her people and the
native Gungans, and she has petitioned
the Senate for aid.

In response, The Jedi Order, mystical
wielders of THE FORCE and defenders of
the Republic, have dispatched Jedi
Knight QUI-GON JINN and his apprentice
to seek a peaceful solution.

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

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Thanks for the compliments, I‘ll be looking forward to your take on an opening like that.

“Vader! Hologram, now!”

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Peter Pan said:
The idea behind the bongo in the first shot was actually to substitute the classic opening shot as it looks like space ship anyway. That‘s also why I’m fading between the starfield moving up and the underwater scenery, the idea was to make the upwards moving stars look like bubbles. Maybe I have to extend the shot before the bongo appears and add some real air bubbles.

Ah, I see. Honestly I’d like to see that idea more fleshed out. The disappearing Bongo’s still a bit of an issue though.

Peter Pan said:
In regards to the establishing shot of the invasion army, I‘d be glad if someone could help me with that.

I’d be down to assist! Currently been on the lookout for good, free assets for this, but have had trouble. I know Battlefront 2 has the ships, but I haven’t been able to locate a good rip of them yet.

EddieDean said:

Here’s a quick little attempt at a crawl.

Woah, that’s definitely the best written version so far! Interested in seeing what your concept for the opening will be like.

Also apologies if I’m sorta flooding the thread a lot with my thoughts lmao, brain just starts writing and doesn’t know when to stop.

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Having played with Peter Pan’s idea a little, there are some logistical challenges with this approach which it might be worth collectively considering.

Firstly, that initial transition. I agree that ideally you’d open on the Jedi going underwater, but this being Star Wars, we really should begin in space. We could follow the ambassador’s ship (now just anyone’s ship) into the Trade Federation ship, but then we should really have some scene on the ship itself, perhaps implying that the two Neimoidians have just arrived to oversee the situation. The invasion trigger shouldn’t happen until after the Gungan negotiations, but there is one scene of the two Neimoidians walking (away from the monitor) which might be usable with a zoomed shot and some alternate lines.

Secondly, context. Whatever the first scene with the Jedi is, it needs to carry some of the exposition we’d otherwise cut, setting them up as negotiators and mystics. I’ve had a bit of a play with this on top of Peter Pan’s ideas but haven’t finalised my thoughts yet, and you can’t do too much voice work without it becoming “fan-edity”. And while we don’t need the underwater fish stuff, some of the dialogue on the bongo can be a bit useful in emphasising what the Force is (“The force will guide us”, “maxi big the force.”)

Thirdly, the negotiation itself. It’s very short unless the Jedi are already aware of an attack, so I think it’s worth having the attack foreseen by the Jedi, as explained in the crawl. I think the best angle with this approach is that the Jedi are actively trying to forge an alliance to defend against invasion - this plan is used in the finale so it makes sense to use the Jedi in this way, plus it makes the failiure of the negotiations (and the speed of the attack) the catalyst for escalation of drama on Naboo (which will be later resolved at the movie’s conclusion). It also works with the lines about the Naboo guard being ill-equipped to defend against the Federation army.

Perhaps then-

The Galactic Republic is failing. As its
ability to protect its worlds diminishes,
the greedy TRADE FEDERATION have
grown increasingly bold in their quest
to exploit vulnerable planets.

QUEEN AMIDALA, elected ruler of the
verdant planet Naboo, fears an attack.
But a rift has grown between her
people and their former allies, the
Gungan warriors, leaving her with
little hope.

Foreseeing an invasion, The Jedi
Order, mystical wielders of THE FORCE
and defenders of the Republic, have
dispatched Jedi Knight QUI-GON JINN
and his apprentice to re-forge the
alliance on Naboo before the situation
escalates.

It’d also be nice to have them account for the failiure of the negotiations - probably using the line “Well you were right about one thing master; the negotiations were short.” But again you’re wrestling with voice lines there.

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

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NotTheDri0ds said:

Peter Pan said:
The idea behind the bongo in the first shot was actually to substitute the classic opening shot as it looks like space ship anyway. That‘s also why I’m fading between the starfield moving up and the underwater scenery, the idea was to make the upwards moving stars look like bubbles. Maybe I have to extend the shot before the bongo appears and add some real air bubbles.

Ah, I see. Honestly I’d like to see that idea more fleshed out. The disappearing Bongo’s still a bit of an issue though.

I think I’ve got an idea how to fix this. The solution has huge teeth… ;D

“Vader! Hologram, now!”