KENOBI: A STAR WARS STORY [The Radical "Help Me Obi-Wan Kenobi" Cut] — Page 15

I also like the Reva arc, although I understand the need to trim it down. I admit I too was confused about her motivations with Luke, and it was my wife who pointed out that Reva was trying to kill Vader’s children the way he slaughtered the younglings, as “revenge”. Not sure it makes a whole lot of sense since Vader doesn’t know about Luke, but Reva is acting more out of rage than rationality.

I enjoyed the ending and think this is really how the prequels should have ended. The canon stretching doesn’t bother me anymore. I think of each trilogy, series, or standalone film as self-contained entities that are only loosely connected, because the writing, direction, production style, and plot details just don’t match up with each other.

But one piece of canon that I will never understand is why Vader has a castle on Mustafar. Do you think maybe you could end the Palpatine/Vader scene with a profile shot of Vader? It’s nice to hear the Imperial March, but he just looks so silly sitting on his throne in this empty room staring straight at camera in a frustratingly symmetrical wide shot. It just calls too much attention to itself. Like, what was Vader doing 15 seconds after this shot?

Hal 9000 said:

He calls it his ship also in ESB. “Take the princess and the Wookiee to my ship.”

I think they’re remembering the menacing way he said “Bring my shuttle” in ESB, which, for some reason was replaced with a poorly filtered “Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival.”

poppasketti said:

I also like the Reva arc, although I understand the need to trim it down. I admit I too was confused about her motivations with Luke, and it was my wife who pointed out that Reva was trying to kill Vader’s children the way he slaughtered the younglings, as “revenge”. Not sure it makes a whole lot of sense since Vader doesn’t know about Luke, but Reva is acting more out of rage than rationality.

I enjoyed the ending and think this is really how the prequels should have ended. The canon stretching doesn’t bother me anymore. I think of each trilogy, series, or standalone film as self-contained entities that are only loosely connected, because the writing, direction, production style, and plot details just don’t match up with each other.

But one piece of canon that I will never understand is why Vader has a castle on Mustafar. Do you think maybe you could end the Palpatine/Vader scene with a profile shot of Vader? It’s nice to hear the Imperial March, but he just looks so silly sitting on his throne in this empty room staring straight at camera in a frustratingly symmetrical wide shot. It just calls too much attention to itself. Like, what was Vader doing 15 seconds after this shot?

Hal 9000 said:

He calls it his ship also in ESB. “Take the princess and the Wookiee to my ship.”

I think they’re remembering the menacing way he said “Bring my shuttle” in ESB, which, for some reason was replaced with a poorly filtered “Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival.”

I wanted to love Mustafar, but found the whole thing cheesy. And what more does the scene give us? Last time we should have seen Vader was when he was defeated.

Anjohan said:
I hope the removal of the lines “I killed Anakin Skywalker” and “Then my friend is truly dead” will help clarify to the audience that Obi-Wan still sees his friend in there and that killing him is just not in his heart. Thank you for a great assesment of the problem.

You’re gutting the whole series of its emotional climax! Too many faneditors get so caught up in their desire to preserve canon and continuity that they will sacrifice important thematic elements of a story. This whole series is about Obi-wan being haunted by his sense of guilt over Anakin and then finally being released from that guilt. It was a powerful moment of catharsis truly unrivaled by the rest of the series. An editor’s first priority should be helping a good story come to the fore. I also think a good fanedit works with the original vision of the media, not against it. You are trying to fix something that ostensibly breaks the OT, but I assure you, you cannot make the OT one bit better or worse with this edit; you can only improve the material that you’re working with.

Acbagel said:

This is the last thing that does bug me a bit. Here’s my suggestion… Save the end of Obi-Wan & Anakin’s fight from “AotC” for the end of the final fight between Obi-Wan & Vader in Episode 6.

I did something similar to this for my edit and it REALLY works, although I moved the Obi-Wan and Vader fight into the bacta tank. Can see it here.
https://vimeo.com/723720916

I think getting rid of Ben’s “my friend really is dead” line is enough. Vader believing he’s “killed” the part of himself that is Anakin works just fine.

Kaweebo said:

Acbagel said:

Ben won’t kill Vader because he still considers Anakin his friend, he wants him to grow & gain the wisdom that Ben knows he’s capable of learning.

That still doesn’t work since he is adamant in Return of the Jedi that Luke must strike his father down, even going so far as to say when Luke says he can’t, “then the Emperor has already won.”

I’ve always disagreed with this interpretation. It’s always seemed to me that Obi Wan is telling Luke he has to be willing to kill him if it comes to it, not that he has to. It’s a question of his resolve. That’s why Yoda uses the word “confront,” he has to face his father again and go through a spiritual test of some kind to become a Jedi.

With that said that’s still not a good reason for Obi Wan not to kill Vader in this moment in the show. For that I just assume he can’t bring himself to do it, which is the same thing he had in Revenge of the Sith. He has pity in the same way Bilbo and Frodo have pity on Gollum.

Kaweebo said:

Hal 9000 said:

It’d be sad to lose the Luke and Reva tension, as I’m usually up for a halfway decent redemption story. But it might be necessary in order to crunch this down to a sensible feature length.

Fundamental disagreement here, that was the worst part of the show. Not only was the way it came about ridiculously contrived but Luke having any contact with an Inquisitor with her lightsaber out goes far beyond stretching canon to its breaking point.

Absolutely. I have no idea why they went with that. Even the excuse they already gave which was Owen and Beru telling him that tusken raiders were coming made sense, but then they decided to go all the way anyway.

Vladius said:

With that said that’s still not a good reason for Obi Wan not to kill Vader in this moment in the show. For that I just assume he can’t bring himself to do it, which is the same thing he had in Revenge of the Sith. He has pity in the same way Bilbo and Frodo have pity on Gollum.

The problem with that is that, like you said, it’s the same. The context of the duel has to be different from what we saw before in RotS to feel meaningful & additive to the franchise.

I’m a little behind on this thread after this latest episode, so pardon me if this has been done or said already.

I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this whole series and loved this episode as well for multiple reasons but the one thing I immediately thought of modifying while watching the episode that I believe would enhance the scene was adding a bit more of Vader’s voice to the mix in the post duel scene. Specifically when he says “I did…” to more thematically depict Vader as the one responsible for Anakin’s death. I tried to keep it fairly subtle but am open to critique if anyone has any suggestions or feedback.

I added a tad more to the following line “…the same way I will destroy you” as well but kept it much lower in the mix until ‘you’.

https://streamable.com/ephg22

GLogus said:

Anjohan said:
I hope the removal of the lines “I killed Anakin Skywalker” and “Then my friend is truly dead” will help clarify to the audience that Obi-Wan still sees his friend in there and that killing him is just not in his heart. Thank you for a great assesment of the problem.

You’re gutting the whole series of its emotional climax! Too many faneditors get so caught up in their desire to preserve canon and continuity that they will sacrifice important thematic elements of a story. This whole series is about Obi-wan being haunted by his sense of guilt over Anakin and then finally being released from that guilt. It was a powerful moment of catharsis truly unrivaled by the rest of the series. An editor’s first priority should be helping a good story come to the fore. I also think a good fanedit works with the original vision of the media, not against it. You are trying to fix something that ostensibly breaks the OT, but I assure you, you cannot make the OT one bit better or worse with this edit; you can only improve the material that you’re working with.

I agree with this, and honestly I don’t see him not finishing Vader off as an issue. Sure, he recognizes that Anakin is gone, but recognizing it is one thing, and striking the killing blow himself is another. He couldn’t do it on Mustafar, and I think he still couldn’t do it here.

Darth Raditz said:

Vladius said:

With that said that’s still not a good reason for Obi Wan not to kill Vader in this moment in the show. For that I just assume he can’t bring himself to do it, which is the same thing he had in Revenge of the Sith. He has pity in the same way Bilbo and Frodo have pity on Gollum.

The problem with that is that, like you said, it’s the same. The context of the duel has to be different from what we saw before in RotS to feel meaningful & additive to the franchise.

This was ultimately the reason (and Reeva nonsense) that I decided to completely cut episode 6. Repurposing the duel for the bacta tank does something we haven’t seen in star wars yet. The cave on Dagobah teased it, but now we have a completely internal battle with Obi-Wan. The moment he apologizes to Anakin, the truth comes out, and he is released of the guilt and regains his strength. THAT in my opinion is a compelling and new narrative.

Anjohan said:

Octorox said:

GLogus said:

Anjohan said:
I hope the removal of the lines “I killed Anakin Skywalker” and “Then my friend is truly dead” will help clarify to the audience that Obi-Wan still sees his friend in there and that killing him is just not in his heart. Thank you for a great assesment of the problem.

You’re gutting the whole series of its emotional climax! Too many faneditors get so caught up in their desire to preserve canon and continuity that they will sacrifice important thematic elements of a story. This whole series is about Obi-wan being haunted by his sense of guilt over Anakin and then finally being released from that guilt. It was a powerful moment of catharsis truly unrivaled by the rest of the series. An editor’s first priority should be helping a good story come to the fore. I also think a good fanedit works with the original vision of the media, not against it. You are trying to fix something that ostensibly breaks the OT, but I assure you, you cannot make the OT one bit better or worse with this edit; you can only improve the material that you’re working with.

I agree with this, and honestly I don’t see him not finishing Vader off as an issue. Sure, he recognizes that Anakin is gone, but recognizing it is one thing, and striking the killing blow himself is another. He couldn’t do it on Mustafar, and I think he still couldn’t do it here.

Well, I agree. I always did. But it still is an issue for most.

However, perhaps I should just re-insert the two lines - or just the “I killed Anakin Skywalker” and call it quits. The halfway point.

I don’t see it as a game changer either way. Episode 6 works almost as is (without Reeva).

I quite liked the “I killed Anakin Skywalker” line, tbh, and how it was meant to be conveyed leaves lots of room for interpretation. If we’re going with the idea that Kenobi did let him live again, the line allows Kenobi to fully get over his guilt by having Vader tell him directly that it was HIS choice what happened in Ep III, not Obi-Wan’s.

Anjohan said:

Octorox said:

GLogus said:

Anjohan said:
I hope the removal of the lines “I killed Anakin Skywalker” and “Then my friend is truly dead” will help clarify to the audience that Obi-Wan still sees his friend in there and that killing him is just not in his heart. Thank you for a great assesment of the problem.

You’re gutting the whole series of its emotional climax! Too many faneditors get so caught up in their desire to preserve canon and continuity that they will sacrifice important thematic elements of a story. This whole series is about Obi-wan being haunted by his sense of guilt over Anakin and then finally being released from that guilt. It was a powerful moment of catharsis truly unrivaled by the rest of the series. An editor’s first priority should be helping a good story come to the fore. I also think a good fanedit works with the original vision of the media, not against it. You are trying to fix something that ostensibly breaks the OT, but I assure you, you cannot make the OT one bit better or worse with this edit; you can only improve the material that you’re working with.

I agree with this, and honestly I don’t see him not finishing Vader off as an issue. Sure, he recognizes that Anakin is gone, but recognizing it is one thing, and striking the killing blow himself is another. He couldn’t do it on Mustafar, and I think he still couldn’t do it here.

Well, I agree. I always did. But it still is an issue for most.

However, perhaps I should just re-insert the two lines - or just the “I killed Anakin Skywalker” and call it quits. The halfway point.

I don’t see it as a game changer either way. Episode 6 works almost as is (without Reeva).

To me, that’s the best it both. From Vader’s pov … Anakin is dead, but that doesn’t mean Obi feels the same. This will Be perfect.

Just remember, this is your edit … make it how YOU want. We can give advice, but in the end it is just advice.

This edit sounds amazing! I can’t wait to check it out. 😃

Theme that you may want to check out:

https://youtu.be/ALYjYnGEZKc

It would have worked better if a Sandperson did attack and Reva saved Luke. I wish she had lost the saber in the previous episode. When Luke lights up his new saber in ANH wouldn’t he be all “wow that’s like that red one that crazy lady my Aunt and Uncle scared off had… I thought I dreamt it” otherwise the whole sequence is pointlessly distracting. The show is about Kenobi not some child torturing dudes and dudettes. It’s all making redemption very cheap.

revel911 said:

Just remember, this is your edit … make it how YOU want. We can give advice, but in the end it is just advice.

I completely agree. Anjohan, we all have different interpretations about what should have happen in the ending (and in the show in general), but I also think that you should do what you ultimately think it’s right. The same thing goes for the piano theme. Personally it doesn’t resonates with me, but the song is meaningful to you, so I strongly think that you should keep it, as well as the other changes that you think that fits better the tone of the movie.

And about the reason why Kenobi leaves Vader alive… In the end, it really is what it is. As Kaweebo said, it’s hard to think a way to edit that to make sense, even more because this is a conservative edit. I already thought about a way to make this work in a way thet differs from the tone of ROTS, but I don’t know if it would work and it would require a ton of editing, and too many changes would deviate from the intent of this edit. I commented about adding the Qui Gon voice saying that Anakin is the chosen one, but I also understand your point about the Qui Gon surprise at the end, that he can be shown to Ben because just now he overcome his struggles. It’s really subjective.

To be sincere, in the end, I’m just happy to have a good edit of the show available to the public. You made changes that I found excellent to make this show be more like a true star wars product, like the re-escore, the star wars fades around the film and cutting the bad production-wise stuff, so I’m really satisfied with just that 😄

lavoyd said:

I’m a little behind on this thread after this latest episode, so pardon me if this has been done or said already.

I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this whole series and loved this episode as well for multiple reasons but the one thing I immediately thought of modifying while watching the episode that I believe would enhance the scene was adding a bit more of Vader’s voice to the mix in the post duel scene. Specifically when he says “I did…” to more thematically depict Vader as the one responsible for Anakin’s death. I tried to keep it fairly subtle but am open to critique if anyone has any suggestions or feedback.

I added a tad more to the following line “…the same way I will destroy you” as well but kept it much lower in the mix until ‘you’.

https://streamable.com/ephg22

Personally, I think it’s great!

Darth Raditz said:

Acbagel said:

This is the last thing that does bug me a bit. Here’s my suggestion… Save the end of Obi-Wan & Anakin’s fight from “AotC” for the end of the final fight between Obi-Wan & Vader in Episode 6. Instead of Obi-Wan saying “Then my friend is truly dead,” (this is the line that confuses me, because if that statement were true, then why would you not kill him here to protect Luke and Leia?) and instead have Obi-Wan complete his reflection on their duel as student & master. This way it comes across as trying to teach Vader the lesson he tried to teach Anakin long ago instead of a strange contradiction of his words and actions, and it brings a conclusion to the flashbacks we saw in the Episode 5 content. To compliment this change, also change the end of the Episode 3 duel by having Vader say his “The years have made you weak” line as Obi-Wan is rescued by the robot, further showing that Vader didn’t want to fight a weakling Obi-Wan.

Now, at the end of the series with these changes, Vader & Obi-Wan’s relationship has developed into something more complicated & co-dependent. Vader won’t kill Ben because he wants to fight him at his best, & Ben won’t kill Vader because he still considers Anakin his friend, he wants him to grow & gain the wisdom that Ben knows he’s capable of learning.

Hmm, now where have I seen that before…

Given your profile name, I know what you are referring to… 😄