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The Kenobi Movie Show (Spoilers) — Page 42

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Vladius said:

I mean it’s okay to have it be around the Skywalkers because the main characters are supposed to be Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker.

Anakin wasn’t supposed to be a main character of this show though. It’s the latest developments which added him.

So long 🙌

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DrDre said:

Anchorhead said:

DrDre said:

  1. Reva kills the guy from The Path in the previous episode, but thinks a little kid, who was thrust into this situation by Reva herself, can provide brilliant insight into the workings of The Path and the Jedi.

Valid points all, whether I agree or not, but I think this may be off. I suspect she wants Leia because she’s a direct connection to Obi Wan. She might be tangentially interested in The Path, but I doubt it’s a focus for her other than it possibly being another way to get to Obi Wan.

They’ve hinted that she’s so driven to find him that it’s a distraction to their larger work. With only two episodes left, we should get some history on why she hates him so much.

Sure, but the only link Leia has with Obi-Wan is the one Reva herself created. However, in the episode she throws the symbol of the Rebellion, which she ripped out of the wall on the table as if it should mean something to a ten year old. Additionally she starts to question Leia about the Path, and Obi-Wan as if a ten year old would have any clue about the locations she was in, and the people she briefly met while being hauled around the galaxy involuntarily.

The whole scene makes very little sense. It would be much more logical for Reva to present herself as a friendly face, and a representative of the Empire put in charge of bringing Leia to the safety of her parents, in hopes of getting at least some information. All Leia knows is, that she was taken by some pirates, and then apparently rescued by a former Jedi, who themselves are wanted criminals. There’s no subtlety in Reva’s character. She’s just a one note villain, who’s inept at interrogating a little kid, fails to recognize her innate Force ability (which is her job), and wants to torture her for information, she likely doesn’t have. Presenting a friendly face would make the Reva character more interesting, and competent, being able to do more than just yell and scowl. These Inquisitors are supposed to be the best, the brightest and most powerful agents of the Empire. So far, the only intelligent one was seemingly killed off in the second episode.

Good points, all. Yes, the symbol onto the table seemed off. For sure, Reva acting like a friendly rescuer would have been the better course. In fact, it seemed like she was going to do just that at the end of #3 but it had been completely abandoned immediately at the start of the next episode.

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MalaStrana#2 said:

Vladius said:

I mean it’s okay to have it be around the Skywalkers because the main characters are supposed to be Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker.

Anakin wasn’t supposed to be a main character of this show though. It’s the latest developments which added him.

I agree with that too. I’m mainly going off of what they SAID the show was going to be like.

I had to get a root canal today and while I was in the chair I kept thinking about how I would do this show lol

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I think Mando works because it seems inspired by the same source material as the OT was, whereas all these other series seem to be “inspired” by the OT. So they just feel like poorly executed copies.

Perhaps exploited is a better term then inspired.

In my humble opinion this series has, all things considered, veered into prequel or even fan film level quality; really bad stuff.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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Vladius said:

while I was in the chair I kept thinking about how I would do this show lol

I do this a lot and it inevitably means I feel disappointed in probably more things than I should be.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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People keep asking why Vader was mad at Reva for letting Kenobi escape even tho he let him escape. This is because Vader knew Kenobi would come for Leia, but after they escaped he was concerned he was gone for good.

My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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At that point in time he had no way of knowing Leia would (or was about to) be captured.

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G&G-Fan said:

People keep asking why Vader was mad at Reva for letting Kenobi escape even tho he let him escape. This is because Vader knew Kenobi would come for Leia, but after they escaped he was concerned he was gone for good.

I was ready to accept circonvoluted explanations to address any potential continuity issues (and every prequel material always has these kind of issues: PT, Rebels, Rogue One…) but even WITHIN its own logic the show is flawed. I’m expecting some lame last minute patch to put everything back on starting blocks for ANH, à la C3PO memory wipe. Which is not a compliment in my book.

Let’s see how this mess lands. I have no confidence it’s gonna land well so Andrew please prove me wrong !

So long 🙌

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Funny how some fans continue to hang their hopes on a Star Wars savior, before release it was Deborah Chow, now Andrew Stanton in the final hour is going to save it. I do think he’s a good writer and writers are more of what’s needed for the franchise, but at the same time…fool me once.

“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.” - DV

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act on instinct said:

Funny how some fans continue to hang their hopes on a Star Wars savior, before release it was Deborah Chow, now Andrew Stanton in the final hour is going to save it. I do think he’s a good writer and writers are more of what’s needed for the franchise, but at the same time…fool me once.

It’s true : in the end like Marvel stuff it’s decided by a corporation.

I never had any hopes about Chow though since I couldn’t see anything specific about what she did before.

So long 🙌

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act on instinct said:

Funny how some fans continue to hang their hopes on a Star Wars savior, before release it was Deborah Chow, now Andrew Stanton in the final hour is going to save it. I do think he’s a good writer and writers are more of what’s needed for the franchise, but at the same time…fool me once.

I hope Stanton is able to pull this off.

I would love to see original script for this by Hossein Amini.

Before Kathleen Kennedy wanted a more “hopeful, uplifting story”:

‘Kennedy discussed original scripts for the series penned by Hossein Amini, and how she ended up replacing the writer with Joby Harold to turn the dark story into something brighter and more hopeful. “We’re looking, ultimately, to make a hopeful, uplifting story. And it’s tricky when you’re starting with a character in the state that Obi-Wan would be in coming off of Revenge Of The Sith. That’s a pretty bleak period of time. You can’t just wave the magic wand with any writer and arrive at a story that necessarily reflects what you want to feel.’ (from Rolling Stone)

 

I still have some reservations about the story clashing and altering what was previously established with the Original Trilogy:-

Obi-Wan & Vader’s Duel In Kenobi Will Change Star Wars Canon In 4 Ways - from Screenrant, if this comes to be true.

“As you know, we would never break canon. So, that’s all I’ll say. … Canon is everything.” - from Vanity Fair

“There’s nothing that I feel like we’ve violated at all. If anything, we’ve informed those scenes so that some of the choices that we’ve taken for granted in the [original trilogy] actually make more sense now.” - from Comicbook

How ‘Obi-Wan Kenobi’ Writer Justified Obi-Wan Not Knowing Anakin Was Alive - ”It all comes down to, is it viable within canon to play that card?“ - from The Wrap

Obi-Wan Kenobi writer says all Star Wars timeline and canon questions will be ‘answered fully’ -“By the time everything has concluded, all things should be in place,” Joby Harold says of potential discrepancies - from Entertainment Weekly
 

How could all timeline and canon questions be “answered fully”? I like and look forward to enjoying new Star Wars releases, but not when new Star Wars rewrites or affects the events of the Original Trilogy.

I can separate the two releases, but should we have to when we are told canon is being respected, but then isn’t (or “if it is viable to do so”?), then we are told to wait until the end of the new series to find out?

That seems a “bluffers way” of getting to keep you watching the show! I have a feeling the writers will have their excuses ready, and “interpretations” or “from a certain point of view” excuses lined up for fans issues with the inconsistencies and breaks with canon. I hope I am proved wrong, very wrong, and they will be “answered fully”.
 

It can still be a good series, to be enjoyed, and for some fans canon does not matter, or we all see thing just see things differently.

But it does change when the new Kenobi writer Joby Harold, says “canon is everything” and “we would never break canon”, but then doesn’t seem to be so sure himself (“is it viable within canon?”), and later says all canon questions will be “answered fully” at the end.

The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.

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 (Edited)

Another Redditor has an interesting theory on what happened behind of the scenes in relation to the underwhelming soundtrack.

Brer_Raptor
The music by Natalie Holt is very underwhelming, to put it mildly. If any Disney+ show deserved to be scored in the classic John Williams Star Wars style, it was this one. This show’s importance to the overall saga story, its place in the timeline (sandwiched halfway between ROTS and ANH), the long-awaited return of multiple legacy character actors (Hayden, Ewan, Jimmy Smitts, Joel Edgerton, etc.), means that this show is essentially Star Wars Episode 3.5, and deserved to be treated as such.

The absence so far of any legacy themes (Imperial March, Force theme, Leia’s theme, Qui-Gon’s theme, Mustafar theme, Battle of the Heroes) is pretty unforgivable.

And I say all this not as some sort of John Williams purist (though I am a big fan), but as someone who greatly enjoys Ludwig Goransson’s & Joseph Shirley’s work on Mando and BOBF; the Kiner family’s work on TCW, Rebels, Bad Batch (and I’m excited for Tales of the Jedi!); the various composers’ work on Star Wars Visions; etc. And I am also very much looking forward to Nicholas Britell’s Andor. So it’s not like I have a problem with other styles and sounds in Star Wars music, in general.

It’s worth noting though that even those other shows, which obviously do not strictly adhere to the John Williams style, still manage to reference the classic themes when appropriate. It blows my mind that such a major project as this has been released with such a lackluster and disjointed score.

It’s also just sad when you consider that Gordy Haab’s upcoming Jedi Survivor score is inevitably going to sound more “Star-Wars-y” than the score for what is basically Episode 3.5. What a massive missed opportunity this show has been, musically.

EDIT: It’s also worth mentioning that it appears there might have been some major behind-the-scenes drama with this score:

For those who didn’t notice/weren’t aware, they waited far longer than usual to announce Natalie Holt as the composer for this show. (They even announced Britell for Andor, before her.) Also, Holt has stated that she originally wrote a theme for Obi-Wan. At the last minute, John Williams was brought on board to write a theme in just two weeks, and her theme was replaced.

Not only that, but as the end credits have revealed, John Williams’ longtime arranger/orchestrator/collaborator William Ross (one of the guys that many fans thought would be perfect to score this show; he adapted and conducted the entire Harry Potter 2 score because JW was too busy, and he also conducted Williams’ Galaxy’s Edge theme and arranged the other music for the park) was brought on board to adapt JW’s new theme. So every time you hear the new Obi-Wan theme in the show and it sounds “Star-Wars-y,” that’s not Natalie Holt; that’s actually Williams’ guy Bill Ross.

Holt apparently hardly got to touch the new Williams theme, and she also confirmed that she in fact did not collaborate with him at all. Contrary to the media spin, this was not like the Solo situation with Williams and Powell. Furthermore, Bill Ross evidently did so much last-minute work on the show that he didn’t simply get credited along with the “additional music” guys later on in the credits; he got his own standalone listing right after Holt’s name. The credits make it seem like all he did was adapt the Obi-Wan theme, but this is likely just the “official” story, considering the fact that he evidently also scored the Obi-Wan/Vader duel in the third episode (again, one of the only “Star-Wars-y” moments). Think about it: why wouldn’t Holt, the main composer of the show, get to score such a major scene?

So here’s my best guess at what happened: Holt gets hired, writes and records much if not all of her score. Either test audiences or someone high up is not happy, and realizes they’ve got a problem on their hands. They don’t want to announce her and then have to later announce that she’s been replaced (partly because of the optics in 2022 of potentially replacing the first female Star Wars composer with an old white male), so they hold off and see what can be done about it.

Kathleen Kennedy reaches out to John Williams and asks if he can do it, but he responds “I only want to write a theme for Benny” (lol, part of me really does wonder if that was the context of that quote, but they spun it for their own PR purposes), but he suggests William Ross to help “fix” the score. JW writes his Obi-Wan theme in two weeks, effectively replacing Holt’s Obi-Wan theme. Ross takes JW’s theme and starts arranging and adapting it for various scenes in the show. He also tackles bigger moments like the Vader/Obi-Wan duel (and likely, more scenes in future episodes), that the higher ups feel absolutely do not work with Holt’s score.

Eventually, they do decide to announce Holt as the composer (likely because there’s simply not enough time for Ross to replace virtually everything), but Ross still gets a high-level listing in the end credits, purportedly just for adapting the Obi-Wan theme… even though in truth he obviously did much more than just that, and ended up replacing multiple other big cues that were originally written by Holt/her team.

What do you think? I don’t think it’s an unreasonable theory, given what we know.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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MalaStrana#2 said:

idir_hh said:

I thought this was an interesting take:

every episode mirrors an Episode of the Skywalker saga (I-VI)
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsKenobi/comments/vacere/fan_theory_every_episode_mirrors_an_episode_of/

It’s been quite obvious so far; some fans are getting nuts about these “insane parallels” but I just find it to be poor storytelling.

Star Wars has become self-referential to a fault. I really would like to see a story set in the distant past, or distant future (or both), that is completely unrelated to any character or story beat we have seen thusfar. At this point these shows feel like a great meal, that has been re-heated a number of times in the micro-wave. It still looks pretty similar, but it tastes funny, and all the nutrients have been destroyed in the process.

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Natalie Holt’s work on Loki is one of my all-time favorite soundtracks. Nothing I’ve heard on this show even comes close to the depth and atmosphere she brings to Loki. For the record, I don’t dislike the score for Obi Wan Kenobi, but it is more background than foreground. I can hear the criticisms. In fact, only one passage has stood out. Maybe it’s one Ms Holt wrote. It starts as they show Reva’s boots stepping off a ship onto the sea base in episode 3 (I think).

Here are some selections from Loki. Light years better than anything in Obi Wan Kenobi.

https://youtu.be/uFwUhMdINsA

https://youtu.be/PRMUUwtAmQQ

https://youtu.be/n_dGnkWfKF8

https://youtu.be/IAs5bVXA11w

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act on instinct said:

DrDre said:

The whole scene makes very little sense. It would be much more logical for Reva to present herself as a friendly face, and a representative of the Empire put in charge of bringing Leia to the safety of her parents, in hopes of getting at least some information. All Leia knows is, that she was taken by some pirates, and then apparently rescued by a former Jedi, who themselves are wanted criminals. There’s no subtlety in Reva’s character. She’s just a one note villain, who’s inept at interrogating a little kid, fails to recognize her innate Force ability (which is her job), and wants to torture her for information, she likely doesn’t have. Presenting a friendly face would make the Reva character more interesting, and competent, being able to do more than just yell and scowl.

Glad to see this, that moment also stuck out to me as really Disney-fied like they’re playing to the kids out there who see themselves in little Leia. That’s fun in an interactive theme park setting and ultimately Star Wars is for the kids more than the adults, but for a serious scene the more intense the interrogation got the sillier it was. If Reva handled the situation like you suggested (which is how real interrogations typically go) the whole scene would improve, Reva would have more dimension as a calculated villain instead of her usual one note, and Leia by rejecting her manipulation would reinforce her inner wisdom and even call back her skepticism of Kenobi in episode 2. I get it, the inquisitors are ruthless and it’s sort of been established that force mind reading is Reva’s thing, but in the wrong scene with the wrong character it can (and in my opinion did) go over the top and feel even cheesier than all the last minute saves.

Reva better break out that backstory soon and it better be worth it, right now the more she tries to act scary the less intimidating she gets, the character is becoming a cartoon.

For Reva to take a calm approach to interrogation would be against what they have established for her character. She seems stuck in the bad cop mode (not surprising for an angry inquisitor who has already been established as reckless). It might have made the interrogation more useful.

And the symbol she saw and pulled off the wall was a Jedi symbol, not a rebellion symbol. She’s grilling Leia to see if she has anything on this. The chance of Leia having any useful information (if you look at it logically from Reva’s perspective) is very low. I’m certain that with his close association with the Jedi, Bail Organa is being watched closely. But there is a chance. We already know that Leia doesn’t know anything more than what we have seen. Bail is in on the formation of the Rebellion and isn’t involved with getting the Jedi to safety.

Bail doesn’t move into action until the Death Star changes the game. He doesn’t risk Kenobi again. And likely Leia’s message to Kenobi is very coded in case it falls into the wrong hands. If you watch ANH, Leia knows who Ben Kenobi is. She never questions Luke. So she knew that name. And C-3PO makes a number of false statements. He tells Luke he doesn’t know who Leia is even though one of the first things he says in the film is about Leia. So he is protecting their identities constantly until he knows that Luke is truly an ally. He wasn’t privy to Leia’s instructions to R2, and is obviously confused, but doesn’t reveal anything that we know he knows. And with Rebels, Rogue One and the opening of ANH, we know he knows a lot.

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MalaStrana#2 said:

idir_hh said:

I thought this was an interesting take:

every episode mirrors an Episode of the Skywalker saga (I-VI)
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsKenobi/comments/vacere/fan_theory_every_episode_mirrors_an_episode_of/

It’s been quite obvious so far; some fans are getting nuts about these “insane parallels” but I just find it to be poor storytelling.

Yeah I noticed it when episode 4 repeated all the same plot conventions and characters as actual episode 4. Instead of being impressed, I was disgusted that they thought that justified what they were doing.

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Vladius said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

idir_hh said:

I thought this was an interesting take:

every episode mirrors an Episode of the Skywalker saga (I-VI)
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsKenobi/comments/vacere/fan_theory_every_episode_mirrors_an_episode_of/

It’s been quite obvious so far; some fans are getting nuts about these “insane parallels” but I just find it to be poor storytelling.

Yeah I noticed it when episode 4 repeated all the same plot conventions and characters as actual episode 4. Instead of being impressed, I was disgusted that they thought that justified what they were doing.

Yeah, not exactly the same story at all. In ANH they rescue Leia because they happen to be there, and they botch it and Leia has to get them out of the mess. I really don’t see a lot of parallels other than Leia got rescued from an imperial facility.

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yotsuya said:

Yeah, not exactly the same story at all. In ANH they rescue Leia because they happen to be there, and they botch it and Leia has to get them out of the mess. I really don’t see a lot of parallels other than Leia got rescued from an imperial facility.

That’s worth noting before we get too far in the weeds on finding comparisons and similarities that are completely unintentional. As Yotsuya points out, they weren’t going to rescue her at all. In fact, they weren’t even going to the Death Star. All of that was happenstance. Just as an unrelated, remote system, farm boy even being part of the story was happenstance (before Lucas had writer’s block a few years later).

That said, there are plenty of things to criticize about this series and I’ve done so myself. However, I don’t see any of that Ring or Rhyming bullshit that some factions swear exists. If anything, this series telling a new story is one of it’s strengths.

As to its conflicting with the 1977 film, I don’t care. As an original fan from 1977, I’ve never let anything conflict with that film. I either ignore attempted connectivity or skip films entirely. Star Wars is a movie from 1977. Obi Wan Kenobi is a TV show from 2022. I have no problem whatsoever separating the two. If anything, I’d struggle to connect the two.

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Anchorhead said:

yotsuya said:

Yeah, not exactly the same story at all. In ANH they rescue Leia because they happen to be there, and they botch it and Leia has to get them out of the mess. I really don’t see a lot of parallels other than Leia got rescued from an imperial facility.

That’s worth noting before we get too far in the weeds on finding comparisons and similarities that are completely unintentional. As Yotsuya points out, they weren’t going to rescue her at all. In fact, they weren’t even going to the Death Star. All of that was happenstance. Just as an unrelated, remote system, farm boy even being part of the story was happenstance (before Lucas had writer’s block a few years later).

That said, there are plenty of things to criticize about this series and I’ve done so myself. However, I don’t see any of that Ring or Rhyming bullshit that some factions swear exists. If anything, this series telling a new story is one of it’s strengths.

As to its conflicting with the 1977 film, I don’t care. As an original fan from 1977, I’ve never let anything conflict with that film. I either ignore attempted connectivity or skip films entirely. Star Wars is a movie from 1977. Obi Wan Kenobi is a TV show from 2022. I have no problem whatsoever separating the two. If anything, I’d struggle to connect the two.

Very well put.

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 (Edited)

Indeed. Besides in ANH Leia is an adult whereas in Obi-Wa Kenobi she is a kid, so yeah there is nothing in common it’s totally different. Any ressemblance is purely incidental. JJ Abrams would agree as well.

So long 🙌

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 (Edited)

It would be awesome if we could key in Mustafar into the background of fortress inquisitorius, it would emphasise Vader’s presence without having him be present.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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It would have been awesome if they’d done that themselves and have Nur look as visually striking as it did in Jedi: Fallen Order, instead of making it look like it’s somewhere in the English channel, but alas.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”