Anjohan said:

What?

I mean, this one could be skipped. And depending on the last two episodes and their content of worth, I’ll take the removal of this episode into account when those are released, but what? Are we watching the same show?

This episode (despite some of Reeva’s dialogue and running) had the highest production value and interest of conflict thus far in the series for me, and the lack of security and intellectual stormtroopers (which, let’s face it, has been a thing since ANH) doesn’t ruin this for me.

This episode had me engaged from the get-go, and unless the last two episodes have so much content that keeping this episode would be impractical for the overall pacing, I think I would keep most of it.

And come on. The “the good guy gets away” has been a thing since 1977. Outside of Star Wars, it’s been a thing since the beginning of film. That Darth Vader gave up a hunt I think we all can assume he finds amusing and fills him with purpose doesn’t break immersion for me the slightest. I’ve come to expect that.

This was levels above episode 1 and 2.

The underwater sequence, the Jedi tombs, the torture device, Leia grabbing Obi-WAN’s hand at the end, the music finally delivering, Obi-Wan finding back to his Jedi ways, Tala as a character, the shot of the stormtroopers drowning, the probe droid hunting Obi-Wan - searching through the glass window with the eerie music… this episode had memorable, emotional, intense moments!

Completely agree with you.
I found the whole prison break pretty classic but exciting, Reva was not over the top, Leia’s interrogation was good and the child actress was pretty great.
I liked it more than previous episodes. Even more than the previous one, mostly because the duel (in my very very personal opinion) had a fan-film-like camera work and direcion, except for the last part.

The odd thing I found with episode 4 was the exchange between Leia and Reva. It went on for far too long, with tired old dialogue found in a thousand other movies.
How about cutting it so that after Leia says “I’ll never tell you where they are”, Reva then gets the Stormtroopers to take Leia away. No more long-winded, boring conversations!

The Disney style of writing is atrocious…

The rest of the episode was great though! It’s so good to see Obi-Wan in action again!

I could certainly see excising this episode almost entirely if 3 and 5 bridge well, if you’re trying to cram things into a ~2 hour movie. And that’s not to say I didn’t enjoy it.

Anjohan I really like that current edit of Vader in the village! And all your points are certainly fair. I greatly appreciate your interest in working with so many view points!

As for my feeling on the ep… Tbh I feel like if you cut any more of this ep (which I feel like it needs it here and there for pacing and dialog) it will be too short an excursion to even include in any meaningful manner…It is soooo easy to cut this ep out entirely as well. I dont know, like the rest of this show so far it had pretty cool moments (Jedi tomb, swimming into base and glass/water break) but they were few and far between with every other moment being average (not bad) and really dumb (Leia under the coat, slapping a storm trooper & sending him against a wall smh).

I’m no expert here but, I feel like this might just be useful for spare parts in future eps.

All in all, thoroughly disappointed so far (I had very high expectations for this show).

A lot of good ideas and excellent discussions about the episode in here from the last day.

I honestly have no idea if I am going to include it or not as of yet - I haven’t even put it into my editing timeline, simply because I expect that the last two episode’s will be of great significance (they should!) and that I will have to cut this episode for pacing.

Unless episode 5 or 6 is filled with filler and useless or dumb moments, It might be hard to include this episode because no one would want to sit through a movie and watch a secondary/main character get kidnapped TWICE in the span of 50 minutes.

But let’s say that episode 5 is filled with about 20 out of 40 worthy minutes of content, and episode 6 the same, that would leave the possibility of an additional 20 minutes for the final cut - leaving some of the best from this episode in contention for screen time.

However, I deem it highly unlikely that the last two episodes will have a combined 40 minutes of wasted time, so this will be very, very interesting.

revel911 said:

Anjohan said:

A lot of good ideas and excellent discussions about the episode in here from the last day.

I honestly have no idea if I am going to include it or not as of yet - I haven’t even put it into my editing timeline, simply because I expect that the last two episode’s will be of great significance (they should!) and that I will have to cut this episode for pacing.

Unless episode 5 or 6 is filled with filler and useless or dumb moments, It might be hard to include this episode because no one would want to sit through a movie and watch a secondary/main character get kidnapped TWICE in the span of 50 minutes.

But let’s say that episode 5 is filled with about 20 out of 40 worthy minutes of content, and episode 6 the same, that would leave the possibility of an additional 20 minutes for the final cut - leaving some of the best from this episode in contention for screen time.

However, I deem it highly unlikely that the last two episodes will have a combined 40 minutes of wasted time, so this will be very, very interesting.

I have been wondering if you could make them part of the same kidnap?

I’ve thought about this, and it would turn this entire fanedit on it’s head, cause me to do major re-editing and would probably end up feeling too fanedit-y, so I’ve gone against it. Sorry. But yeah - this is what the writers should’ve done. The storyline of Ep 2 should be this, and the original Ep 2 shouldn’t even have been a thing (although I do enjoy the planet).

Sadly, Episode 2 will be the Leia Kidnapped plot - and with the removal of a lot of cringe, believe me, it works a lot better. Seen the edit many a times now, and what removing dumb shit does for this series/film - you have no idea!

Sirius said:

Anjohan, you plan to cut the Vader/Reva scene of episode 4? Because Vader calmly accepting Obi-Wan escaping in episode 3, and then Vader clearly pissed off that Obi-Wan escaped in episode 4 is too strange, at least for me. Two completely different reactions to the same fact, one hours after the other.

If I don’t include Episode 4 as a structure to the film, I won’t keep that scene in. So far I’ve found Reeva to be a horrid villain in all the wrong ways, and the less she speaks to Vader the better.

Phase3 said:

The odd thing I found with episode 4 was the exchange between Leia and Reva. It went on for far too long, with tired old dialogue found in a thousand other movies.
How about cutting it so that after Leia says “I’ll never tell you where they are”, Reva then gets the Stormtroopers to take Leia away. No more long-winded, boring conversations!

The Disney style of writing is atrocious…

The rest of the episode was great though! It’s so good to see Obi-Wan in action again!

Yes, if episode 4 is kept in the film structure this would be a preferable cut - without a doubt! Completely aree.

Hal 9000 said:

I could certainly see excising this episode almost entirely if 3 and 5 bridge well, if you’re trying to cram things into a ~2 hour movie. And that’s not to say I didn’t enjoy it.

Yeah, it is totally expendable - and I liked the episode a lot, so I’m excited for what the final two episodes will bring as far as worthy content.

Axios said:

Anjohan I really like that current edit of Vader in the village! And all your points are certainly fair. I greatly appreciate your interest in working with so many view points!

As for my feeling on the ep… Tbh I feel like if you cut any more of this ep (which I feel like it needs it here and there for pacing and dialog) it will be too short an excursion to even include in any meaningful manner…It is soooo easy to cut this ep out entirely as well. I dont know, like the rest of this show so far it had pretty cool moments (Jedi tomb, swimming into base and glass/water break) but they were few and far between with every other moment being average (not bad) and really dumb (Leia under the coat, slapping a storm trooper & sending him against a wall smh).

I’m no expert here but, I feel like this might just be useful for spare parts in future eps.

All in all, thoroughly disappointed so far (I had very high expectations for this show).

Thank you for that, Axios. For the fans, by the fans.

It is more likely to end up as a “spare sparts” episode than one added to the film structure as of now, but again, depends on how much content there is to work with from the last two episodes. I don’t want the film to exceed 2 hours and 50 minutes - and that is if the pacing is on point!

headtaker18 said:

And PS:

imagine how beautiful it will feel when The Force Theme plays as Obi-Wan prevents the glass from crushing down upon them, followed by him steering it towards the Stormtroopers.

And:

As for Darth Vader not killing Reeva for her “failure” (although she for the first time ever did something smart in this series you ask me), remember I don’t have the scene with Vader on his throne warning her, so this doesn’t create any problems whatsoever.

100% yes to The Force Theme, but one thing I’m curious about is the Reva scene, are you going to completely cut Vaders “YOU were warned what DEFEAT would bring!” line? Because it will feel a bit out of place considering the scene where he first talks to her in his castle is going to be cut. Maybe there’s some potential to reuse that scene somehow to transition into the final scene with the tracker on the ship? Something like:

Obi escapes Inquisitior fortress > Vader talks to Reva “don’t fail me again or you won’t live to regret it” “yes my lord” > final scene with Obi and Leia which pans down to the Droid with the tracker?

Apologies if it’s to wordy I’m just throwing stuff to see whats possible.

The little I’ve thought about this to be completely honest, I don’t think it will be much of a problem. I mean, it is obvious the Inquisitors are expendable - and I also find it obvious that The Inquisitors look up to Vader and see him as their superior. This way, as their superior, I think it should come across natural that any defeat would not sit well with Vader.

revel911 said:

RogueLeader said:

Found this rescore of the Vader scene from Ep 4 that might be up your alley for this edit.

https://youtu.be/uALjoXJ0qRU

Before the score is added, I wonder if his walk in can be slowed 10% to feel
more like Prowse.

If the scene is kept, I think I would just leave it. Since we have kept The Imperial March out of the film thus far, I think if we are to use it it should be in a scene where Vader goes absolutely mental - hopefully, fingers crossed, Episode 5 or 6.

Anjohan said:
Sadly, Episode 2 will be the Leia Kidnapped plot - and with the removal of a lot of cringe, believe me, it works a lot better. Seen the edit many a times now, and what removing dumb shit does for this series/film - you have no idea!

This I do believe! It’s actually astonishing how those little adjustments in removing the distractions help the entire experience. When the viewer isn’t constantly being pulled out of the show, everything just keeps building up and absorbing you in.

Anjohan, since it seems like we won’t be getting an explanation as to why Vader let Obi-wan leave in Episode 3 as he appeared angry about it in episode 4, I have cut a draft for how to make Obi-wan’s escape through the fire seem less like Vader intentionally let him go. Still would need a lot of soundtrack work but as a concept I thought something along these lines would make it more believable: https://streamable.com/kmx5y8

Acbagel said:

Anjohan said:
Sadly, Episode 2 will be the Leia Kidnapped plot - and with the removal of a lot of cringe, believe me, it works a lot better. Seen the edit many a times now, and what removing dumb shit does for this series/film - you have no idea!

This I do believe! It’s actually astonishing how those little adjustments in removing the distractions help the entire experience. When the viewer isn’t constantly being pulled out of the show, everything just keeps building up and absorbing you in.

Couldn’t have been said better. Exactly. Spot on!

Anjohan, since it seems like we won’t be getting an explanation as to why Vader let Obi-wan leave in Episode 3 as he appeared angry about it in episode 4, I have cut a draft for how to make Obi-wan’s escape through the fire seem less like Vader intentionally let him go. Still would need a lot of soundtrack work but as a concept I thought something along these lines would make it more believable: https://streamable.com/kmx5y8

Impressive. Most impressive.

Besides the re-use of same shots one time too many, your idea is good nonetheless. I will edit it so that the droid is stand-by the moment the fire re-ignites, almost as part of the plan, and then leave it at that instead of re-using footage (not because it doesn’t necessarily work - i think I could make it work by adding some smoke effects and cropping the footage to make it distinct), but simply because I don’t think it is needed and it would still flow better.

This way, at least, it doesn’t seem like Vader has all the time in the world to make up his mind. Therefore, this was a brilliant idea - now we can also better assume that although Obi-Wan got away in a more believable way, Vader almost acknowledges to himself that he will find him again - and soon - and that the hunt gives him both purpose and some sort of twisted enjoyment, although he might have prefered to kidnap and torture Kenobi more right there and then and later on.

Artan42 said:

revel911 said:

Artan42 said:

CMMAP said:

Artan42 said:

You have to. I don’t know if episode 4 can be saved. It’s bad bad. No underwater security? Darth Vader now speed walks? Snow speeders just hover oddly? vader doesn’t kill failures? Obiwan thinks a trench coat for a disguise will work? I literally cannot think of one salvageable moment? What if Obiwan let the water come in and they will escaped through the water?

Either way it would be convinient and/or bad writing. How so? Obi-Wan doesn´t have the opportunity to look for a better disguise (per your argument) because the writers deem it to be that way. So your rhetorical questions running nowhere.

Unless the Empire has Bantha costumes knocking around for R&R events then there’s no disguise he could have worn at all that would have hidden Leia as well. That’s not the writing, that’s just bad viewing of a scene that doesn’t require other interpretation. Also bare in mind he made it to within a few metres of the shuttles so it must have been an effective disguise.

If Obiwan was in a Storm Trooper outfit with Leia in a supply crate being wheeled/hovered around, that could have worked. What if it wasn’t them caught, but then Tala for the earlier scene as a potential spy.

Because that wouldn’t have been quick. The point is to show the time crunch the escape is under, having time to change into a full set of armour and dig out a crate would not convey a hurried rush in the same was as throwing on a coat did.

The real question is why not bring more rebreathers and escape under water in the first place.

Agreed. I felt the same way. The disguise wasn’t meant to mindfuck people, it was more a “this looks weird but we’re in a wannabe sith fortress and there are a lot of weird aliens and generals all over the place” and just as people start to expect they’re already in the next area. I think people fooled themselfs because of their own belief in the authority and security of The Empire, not because the camouflage was flawless.

True… that should’ve been the plan. Could’ve also made for a cool underwater battle/chase. Some handheld submarine equipment with scary-sounding sounds and speed. Could’ve looked awesome and felt unique. Oh well.

jordanbcooper said:

How could you cut out episode 4 from this edit when we have the most emotionally moving part of the whole series here with the death of the legendary Wade?

There is no question in my mind that we have to keep Episode 4 for the purpose of such an emotional farewell. I am still in shock.

Update

I have cut together and incorporated what one might call the “Cringeless” version of Episode 4 into my edit as a side-piece for when Episode 5 and 6 are here, and I mean that in the sense that the cut is ready for either an alternate version of the film (for those who want a complete experience of the show) or as a stand-by copy-paste into the final product if Episode 5 and 6 allow the structure of the film to have this (perhaps then more crucial) piece to the puzzle.

The cut goes something like:

Obi-Wan in ship, burned -> thrown into Bacta Tank (no Vader connection yet) -> Reeva interrogates Leia Part I, without cringe -> Obi-Wan is in bacta tank, connection and parallels with Vader are there - only one shot of them dueling as a PTSD memory rather than five intercuts with a duel that happened three minutes ago and also let’s us focus on the two, burned individuals -> Obi-Wan wakes up from Bacta, asks where is Leia -> Cut to Obi-Wan and Tala planning the invasion of the Inquisitor fortress -> Reeva interrogates Part II without cringe (Part III with the droid and the mindreading is gone, except for a few seconds of Reeva playing with the droid) -> then it proceeds chronologically, but without cringe and more intensely paced. I also strengthened Reeva’s character by her not interviewing and analyzing Tala for what feels like one hour instead of either mindreading, killing or taking her into custody (it goes something like: Obi-Wan saves Leia -> Tala has just been accused for lying, Reeva is interrupted by alarms, and goes to hunt Kenobi).

The content counts for 23 minutes in total, and puts the film from 1 hour and 27 minutes up to 1 hour and 50 minutes, and the flow felt way better than I expected. So this will be interesting to evaluate once we continue the editing journey.

I did have to re-score certain parts to not make the Episode cliffhanger’s feel like cliffhangers, which they all are - oh my - but this came across rather flawlessly imo.

I COULD render a beta version of the edit with the episode included, so that people can give feedback on both the cut as it stands and on their opinions as to what they feel about the second Leia kidnapping, but then again it would suck to “spoil the release” by rendering a BETA which I am not done perfecting or that ruin the “freshness” of watching the enitery of it. So I myself would vote against this for now.

Video Update

https://streamable.com/uukjme

Tell me if you think this works. I did some re-editing to make the droid save Obi-Wan quicker, as suggested by Acbagel, and then re-structured the line (that i actually had removed from earlier) “The years have made you weak” with a slowed-down and disappoined “Obi-Wan” at the end of it. The purpose is to almost make Vader give up an immediate hunt because he is disappointed - but without it feeling to on the nose with something like “Escape. I will find you” or some clichè line you’ve heard in countless films and series.