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What do you LIKE about the EU? — Page 47

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darklordoftech said:

Dave Dorman’s art

Yes.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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Luke rebulding the Jedi Order was the best part of the EU unlike in Disney Canon in there Luke Jedi Order is destroyed in a Few Years i envisioned that Luke would restore the Jedi Order after the movies
So the post ROTJ EU is the closest thing to my vision

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We don’t know if the order is destroyed. Since the films had nothing to say about the other surviving Jedi Rey isn’t alone or the Last Jedi. Although they sort of were saying she was going to be the one who brought it back, and hinting at Finn having force sensitivity. The possibility of him being her apprentice.

Ahsoka might not think she is a Jedi anymore but i doubt she is dead, and Ezra is probably somewhere and they can’t be the only Jedi in a very big Star Wars GFFA.

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JadedSkywalker said:

We don’t know if the order is destroyed. Since the films had nothing to say about the other surviving Jedi Rey isn’t alone or the Last Jedi. Although they sort of were saying she was going to be the one who brought it back, and hinting at Finn having force sensitivity. The possibility of him being her apprentice.

Ahsoka might not think she is a Jedi anymore but i doubt she is dead, and Ezra is probably somewhere and they can’t be the only Jedi in a very big Star Wars GFFA.

Point is Luke should’ve been the one to restore the Jedi Order. Not some overpowered, underwritten mystery box entity.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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I sort of liked the Rise of Kylo Ren but i didn’t like the retcon of the Knights of Ren or Hippie Snoke. The Luke Skywalker stuff was good. I also liked the Sith book whatever the heck it was called that had Lando, even if it was a late tie in to Rise of Skywalker. Was it Shadow of the Sith?

There Luke is actively trying to prevent Palpatine’s return and to thwart the darkside. He is trying to find Exegol. He isn’t Jake Skywalker. I liked that Anakin saves him. And that it made both Hayden and Shaw canon.

It actually made Rey’s parents characters.

But yeah it still has to work in the shitty story for the Rise of Skywalker, the Sith Eternal and Occhi and all that garbage.

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Zorba the Hutt

He be pimpin’.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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In general, I like how the old EU handled the fall of the Empire. It wasn’t a clean or quick process of collapse. It was a gradual decline like the Roman Empire into a sort of Byzantine rump state, with brief periods of resurgence. In this analogy, I guess Thrawn would be Emperor Justinian trying to reconquer the Western Empire.

The whole thing played out in a more realistic way and felt truer to real history, with the fracturing into warlord states and splinter factions rising up. I like that the Galactic Civil War continued for another 15 years after Endor, and I find the idea of a post-Palpatine declining Empire to be a really interesting concept.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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I liked that the EU didn’t just rehash the original trilogy’s story like the “official” canon did with it’s sequels. The EU had a positive portrayal of Luke’s life after ROTJ, him founding a new Jedi academy on Yavin IV, and eventually facing off against a new threat not seen before. One that was immune to the Force no less.

It was a lot more fresh, novel yet traditional. The Star Wars cast had numerous children who grew up, got married themselves, and the story continued centuries later with Luke’s descendant. It was far more wholesome than the nihilistic, propaganda-filled tripe we got from Disney.

The EU had it’s problems, namely it’s incredibly bloated library of books, spin-offs of spin-offs, and excruciating detail into things that didn’t need to be explained. It could have been curated better for sure, and with a lot of pruning and better oversight it would have been a lot more approachable.

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I listed some things in the “What do you hate about the EU?” thread, so to balance things out I’ve come here to share what I like/love about the EU!

  1. I appreciate the EU for finding imaginative ways to explore the Star Wars universe, mostly in those early days, but some of the later stuff did so too. I remember when I first found out about all of it- my mind was blown. I never imagined there could be so much more going on the Galaxy Far Far Away.

  2. Lately I’ve taken a particular interest in the older EU stories. So far anything with Brian Daley and Archie Goodwin/Al Williamson has been great. Everything they do feels like it could have happened in an actual Star Wars movie, but they all manage to create all new situations and worlds to explore. It feels like a very natural and fresh expansion of the concepts, characters, and ideas introduced in the OT. Even though they show things like the Bounty Hunter on Ord Mantell or the Battle of Toprawa (how the Rebels got the Death Star plans) none of it feels like fan service. Its very authentic and fresh. (For context, I’m mostly referring to the Newspaper Strips, the Han Solo adventures, and the radio dramas.)

  3. Adding onto that, I’ve also been impressed with the work of Tom Vietch. Bringing back Boba Fett and Palpatine should have never worked creatively. Its something that sounds like pure fan service, contrived and without any substance, but with Dark Empire Vietch manages to craft something that feels very special and unique. The art by Cam Kennedy adds to this as well. I’ve yet to reread Dark Empire 2 and Empire’s End though, so we’ll see what I think of that. I’m currently reading Tales of the Jedi for the first time so I’ll jump back into Dark Empire afterwards. Either way, I really enjoy the first Dark Empire.

  4. I also really enjoy Matthew Stover’s Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor. Its epic in scale, its witty, cinematic, pulpy, philosophic, intense, atmospheric, and poetic. Luke gets pushed to his limits as he is faced with a nihilistic philosophy that threatens to break his spirit, all while he tries not only living up to the legacy of the Jedi, but to the legacy that’s been formed around him. The book also breaks it’s own meta. Was any of it real? Did it really happen? Well of course not, it is a novel after all… A lot of people hate it for that, but I think it’s the author’s way of commentating on the fandom’s obsession with canon and what “really happened.”

  5. John Jackson Miller’s KOTOR comic was great too. One of the best comics I’ve ever read. I’m not a big fan of the KOTOR era, but the story and characters were just too good. The banter and relationships between the characters reminds me of the OT with Luke, Han and Leia. Some really interesting plot twists too- the kinds that don’t just come out of nowhere, but the kinds that make you go “why didn’t I see that coming! It all makes sense now!” (Even though I knew something strange was happening for a while.)

Move along, move along.

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Update: So I’ve read some Tales of the Jedi. Love how Nomi Sunrider goes out into the empty desert and learns a bit about the Force. Love how the Jedi master was a giant lizard too and I wish we saw more unique things like that from Star Wars. Ulic is cool too but I have a feeling his story is going to get more interesting as it goes along.

I also reread Dark Empire II and Empire’s End… I do like that Veitch and Kennedy kept trying to introduce new things like the Shadow Droids and the Dark Adepts, but most of what else I have to say would lean more into criticism so I’ll stop here.

Move along, move along.

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C3PX said:

My original draw to the character of Kyle Katarn was that he was an average kind of guy. He wasn’t Luke Skywalker, or some ancient mystical occultist warrior. He was just a guy with a gun, trying to get by under a tyrannical regime. And finally, circumstanced draw him into the Rebellion.

I was irritated when the story turned into, here is you father’s lightsaber, he was murdered by an evil Sith Lord…you must learn the ways of the Jedi, and follow in your father’s footsteps… Suddenly he is a cheap ripoff of Luke (or almost a cocktail of Han and Luke). Even the showdown at the end of the game, much like the showdown in Return of the Jedi, has Kyle tempted to turn to the darkside. Please!

Even having him turn to the darkside later on was pretty lame. It is kind of silly how in the movies we get the impression that once you turn to the darkside you don’t come back, and yet in the EU just about everyone turns to the darkside sooner or later and have absolutely no trouble coming back with a little help from their friends. Gets a little old.

I completely get what you’re saying, although i wouldn’t define Kyle Katarn an ordinary guy anyways, he was a goddamn one man army.
If Lucasfilm ever shot a movie about the first Dark Forces back in the day, i would have made him more like a spy that knows when to shoot and when to pull off his imperial rank to infiltrate (of course the game was a Doom clone, so that couldn’t be translated into the gameplay.
To me Jedi Knight (which was the first pc game i ever played, well… the demo at least) always felt like a parallel dimension to the movie, it had enough of a Star Wars feel, but looked different somehow, i don’t even know if i’m able to explain it properly, i just know that that’s the impression it always gave me, since i was a 7-years old laddie.
Then the lines got blurred by a lot when they inserted him more into the SW inner circle of Luke and Lando (and consequently Han and Chewie as well), of all the titles Jedi Knight is the one that feels more removed from “things we know”, it’s a self-contained story that’s in fact so self-contained that passes more or less debatably as a Star Wars lookalike, but i will say it does have more of a Kurosawa feel than actual SW.

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Marvel Epic Collection is reprinting Sith War. Though i’m looking forward to the reprint of Dark Lords of the Sith in the same volume more. Wish they had a book that just reprinted the Veitch Gossett run only. In hardback. At the time of Dark Lords Anderson hadn’t taken over.

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I like the Japanese Cover Art for New Jedi order but not the novels themselves.

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KOTOR 2 i liked how Chris Avellone portrayed the Jedi Order as flawed institution just like the Sith in other Stories of the EU and especially in Disney Canon or Lucas Prequels and TCW Show they romanticize the Jedi a lot that they cant do no Wrong but if the Jedi Existed in Real Life the Jedi would most likely be as they are represented in KOTOR 2 as some Religious and Egomaniac Fanatics KOTOR 2 Subvert your Expectations and broke the line of Always Good vs Evil or Light vs Dark in Star Wars better than The Last Jedi did

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I just ordered the Lando trilogy which i haven’t read in decades. I wonder if i will enjoy the Adventures of Lando books by L neil Smith. The only affordable edition is the Disney printing with legends slapped onto the label. Someday i would like to get the vintage ones but not now.

Did anyone else ever read these i only remember Vuffi Raa.

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JadedSkywalker said:

I just ordered the Lando trilogy which i haven’t read in decades. I wonder if i will enjoy the Adventures of Lando books by L neil Smith. The only affordable edition is the Disney printing with legends slapped onto the label. Someday i would like to get the vintage ones but not now.

Did anyone else ever read these i only remember Vuffi Raa.

I definitely read the first one and liked it. I might’ve read the second one, but I can’t remember anything about it, so I dunno.

I bought a used paperback omnibus, and at one point planned to finish the trilogy, but I weeded it along with most of my SW stuff after the post-TLJ state of the franchise/fandom left me angry and averse to anything SW-related.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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The best thing about the EU is that it at least demonstrated the bare-minimum level of expected competence by advancing the story after ROTJ. The OT characters changed and grew, faced new challenges, and the political landscape of the Galaxy fundamentally changed as a consequence of what happened in the OT.

Of course, that’s really the absolute minimum I would expect for any post-ROTJ continuation of Star Wars. In any sane Universe, I probably wouldn’t actually praise the EU for basic, minimum story-telling competence. But unfortunately, sanity in Star Wars is long gone. We now have a canonical post-ROTJ narrative that basically amounts to a Galactic Control+Z, undoing all narrative progress, resetting the Galaxy back to Empire vs. Rebels, and repeating the OT story-line (poorly) with different characters. There’s no New Republic or new Jedi Order or any of the stuff Star Wars fans had anticipated since 1983… no, none of that stuff. There’s no continuation of the story.

So as silly as the EU can get, we’ve arrived at a point where it actually makes sense to praise the EU for understanding basic storytelling concepts like “cause and effect” and “continuing where we left off”.

The EU is really the only post-1983 incarnation of Star Wars that got the basics more or less correct. The Prequels went off in a stupid direction, and the Sequels were not actually proper sequels but rather a soft-reboot followed by an incoherent mess. Nobody got the bare-minimum basics right except the EU.

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I really need to get into the older EU. Star Wars in its purest form. The original Marvel comics, Newspaper Strips from Manning, and Williamson. Radio plays by Brian Daley. Novels by Daley and Foster.

the pre west end games, pre Zahn, Pre prequels stuff.

Reading some old magazines with the comic strips and McQuarrie art, love how pulpy it is. I can imagine the SW universe as this vast place. With lots of adventure. Free of the Saga and, free of 40 years of baggage.

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JadedSkywalker said:

I really need to get into the older EU. Star Wars in its purest form. The original Marvel comics, Newspaper Strips from Manning, and Williamson. Radio plays by Brian Daley. Novels by Daley and Foster.

the pre west end games, pre Zahn, Pre prequels stuff.

Reading some old magazines with the comic strips and McQuarrie art, love how pulpy it is. I can imagine the SW universe as this vast place. With lots of adventure. Free of the Saga and, free of 40 years of baggage.

^ That old original EU stuff is great ! When I first read through all of the of the original Marvel comics ,especially the ones set between Star Wars and Empire ,it gave more resonance to things implied in the films . An example being the final exchange between Han and Luke in Empire ,just before the battle of Hoth . I really did get the sense that these two had been through a lot together between films . Same with the comics taking place between Empire and Jedi ,which also made the final film of the OT much stronger for me . Same thing when I read the newspaper strips collected by Dark Horse in the 90s

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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JadedSkywalker said:

I really need to get into the older EU. Star Wars in its purest form. The original Marvel comics, Newspaper Strips from Manning, and Williamson. Radio plays by Brian Daley. Novels by Daley and Foster.

the pre west end games, pre Zahn, Pre prequels stuff.

I read the Newspaper strips years ago but I remember them having a pulpy adventurous feel that was missing in later works. Those stories really did a lot to make the galaxy feel like a vibrant and exciting place. Plus the art by Al Williamson is splendid.

I’ve been thinking of revisiting them recently, and I may even need to check out the main Marvel run as well!

Move along, move along.

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My favorite EU is:

Tales of the Jedi
-Ulic Qel Droma
-Exar Kun
-Aleena Keto
-Vima Sunrider

The Emperor’s Hand
-Mara Jade Skywalker

The Jedi Knight Series
-Kyle Katarn
-Jaden
-Cal Kestis
-Merrin

Knights of the Old Republic
-Revan
-Darth Marr
-Satale Shan
-Bastila Shan

“There is a tremor in the Force.”

“Give yourself to the dark side.” -Lord Vader

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Darth Tremor said:

My favorite EU is:

Tales of the Jedi
-Ulic Qel Droma
-Exar Kun
-Aleena Keto
-Vima Sunrider

Love TOTJ, but I’ve never been a fan of how compressed it all is. The Great Sith War spans, what, a year at most? If you’ve read the Dark Empire endnotes, you’d know Veitch originally envisioned the rise of the Krath and Ulic’s fall to the dark side as a process which spanned several years than the weeks/months the comics imply, so I don’t know why the storylines came out so truncated. KJA’s eventual involvement or some editorial decree from on high throwing a spanner in the works?

If I had any faith in the nuEU doing it justice, I’d like to see TOTJ redone as an ongoing title in the same vein as the KOTOR comic, but I just know it wouldn’t recapture any of the magic of the original. Probably end up with a scene of Kun bleeding a kyber crystal red in the process of constructing his double-bladed lightsaber, because that’s the stupid bullshit that typifies modern SW.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy