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The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 362

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Tantive3+1 said:

Things like the Rule of Two were just made up as an explanation for why Vader and Palpatine were the only ones in the OT.

The Rule of Two could be recontextualized to be just the nature of the dark side, instead of an arcane rule the Sith must follow. Like, masters just tend to pass on their knowledge to only one apprentice, and the lack of multiple apprentices means that over time, the number of dark side masters dwindle to one.

Reading R + L ≠ J theories

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^ Yeah, pretty sure that’s how it was originally envisioned. Kinda like how the laws of physics just observe the nature of things, they’re not what limits nature. Similarly the Sith don’t behave in a certain way because of a rule, the rule just analyzes why they behave in such a way.

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Cody wasn’t on geonosis, he says so in a short exchange with Obi-Wan during the Geonosis episodes.

“Vader! Hologram, now!”

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Oh yeah, I forgot he was in the Genonosis episodes.

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I appreciate all the wonderful ideas in this thread, and folks helping each other out. (Especially those who’ve helped me with ideas in the past.)

One idea I’m exploring at the moment is altering Anakin’s motivation around joining Sidious on the darkside from saving Padme, to saving Padme, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka. Some of the ways I’m doing that will stay secret at the moment.

But I wanted to ask if anyone knows where I might source audio (or suggestions for audio manipulation) to change some Anakin and Sidious dialogue, namely
Sidous saying “…save your wife from certain death” I’d like to change it to “…save your family from certain death” if possible.
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Anakin saying “Just help me save Padme’s life” to “Just help me save their lives”

And any suggestions for changing the Vader/Sidious exchange at the very end would be accepted as well.

My Edits:
Revenge of the Sith: Refocused Available

The Clone Wars Refocused: The Chosen One (Mortis Episode)

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Delpheas said:

I appreciate all the wonderful ideas in this thread, and folks helping each other out. (Especially those who’ve helped me with ideas in the past.)

One idea I’m exploring at the moment is altering Anakin’s motivation around joining Sidious on the darkside from saving Padme, to saving Padme, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka. Some of the ways I’m doing that will stay secret at the moment.

But I wanted to ask if anyone knows where I might source audio (or suggestions for audio manipulation) to change some Anakin and Sidious dialogue, namely
Sidous saying “…save your wife from certain death” I’d like to change it to “…save your family from certain death” if possible.
&
Anakin saying “Just help me save Padme’s life” to “Just help me save their lives”

And any suggestions for changing the Vader/Sidious exchange at the very end would be accepted as well.

I’d say you could probably find everything you need in the films themselves. Palpatine says “family” a couple of times in Rise of Skywalker. Might be able to use that if you clean it up. I’m sure Anakin says “their” and “lives” a few times between the two films.

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That’s what I thought. Gonna look at Sidious’s Exogol stuff and see what works.

My Edits:
Revenge of the Sith: Refocused Available

The Clone Wars Refocused: The Chosen One (Mortis Episode)

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 (Edited)

What if Anakin didn’t bring up the Jedi plot against Sidious during the Mustafar fight? This is a way overly-laboured change to excise a single line that bugs me (“I should’ve known the Jedi were plotting to take over!!!”).

Every instance in this movie of Anakin appearing to sincerely believe the Jedi were unjustified in their actions against the Sith Lord that lied to and endangered him and his family/friends for years gets on my wick. The whole 'the Jedi betrayed the Republic!" big lie works fine for me as what Anakin and Palps conspire together to tell the galaxy (and Padme) to justify their coup, but only if Anakin is in on the lie, otherwise it just makes him look stupid. I believe a lot of this stuff is debris from the pre-reshoots version of the script where Anakin’s turn was more to do with politics/feeling the Jedi had been lying to him, but since in the final movie Anakin personally sends Mace to stop Darth Sidious the evil SITH LORD they’ve been looking for, having him later behave as if he truly, earnestly thought Mace was there to take control of the Republic in some kind of top secret anti-democratic plot against the totally innocent Chancellor just gives the impression Anakin’s brain is dribbling out of his ears.

Arguably the rest of the dialogue that I’ve left in here is also carrying the exact same sentiment, but I think without the context of the previous line, you can read it as a more general criticism of the Jedi as being just as evil as Sheev (because of not helping him with saving Padme or whatever), rather than him having amnesia.

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sade1212 said:

What if Anakin didn’t bring up the Jedi plot against Sidious during the Mustafar fight? This is a way overly-laboured change to excise a single line that bugs me (“I should’ve known the Jedi were plotting to take over!!!”).

Every instance in this movie of Anakin appearing to sincerely believe the Jedi were unjustified in their actions against the Sith Lord that lied to and endangered him and his family/friends for years gets on my wick. The whole 'the Jedi betrayed the Republic!" big lie works fine for me as what Anakin and Palps conspire together to tell the galaxy (and Padme) to justify their coup, but only if Anakin is in on the lie, otherwise it just makes him look stupid. I believe a lot of this stuff is debris from the pre-reshoots version of the script where Anakin’s turn was more to do with politics/feeling the Jedi had been lying to him, but since in the final movie Anakin personally sends Mace to stop Darth Sidious the evil SITH LORD they’ve been looking for, having him later behave as if he truly, earnestly thought Mace was there to take control of the Republic in some kind of top secret anti-democratic plot against the totally innocent Chancellor just gives the impression Anakin’s brain is dribbling out of his ears.

Arguably the rest of the dialogue that I’ve left in here is also carrying the exact same sentiment, but I think without the context of the previous line, you can read it as a more general criticism of the Jedi as being just as evil as Sheev (because of not helping him with saving Padme or whatever), rather than him having amnesia.

I think the idea is that in a sense his brain is actually dribbling out his ears. The dark side has made him insane to the point where he believes his own lies. Mace Windu didn’t do what he expected or wanted him to do which is to capture Palpatine so that he wouldn’t be a danger but he could hypothetically still tell Anakin the life saving secrets. Instead Mace wanted to kill him (understandably) over Anakin’s protests. When Anakin tells Padme that he “saw Master Windu attempt to assassinate the Chancellor,” that’s technically true even though he’s leaving out the context. Because he wants to save Padme so badly, he allowed this kernel of truth to make him believe more lies. Deep down he knows the full truth, but consciously he’s forcing himself to believe that Palpatine really is just a politician that the Jedi don’t like and want to depose. Yoda warned the Jedi that the idea of overthrowing Palpatine could take them to a dark place, and it’s exactly that ambiguity that lets Anakin rationalize it to himself.

With that said I think “from my point of view the Jedi are evil” is a really silly line and it’s a meme for a reason.

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“From my point of view the Jedi are evil!”

I think this line was put in just to be a parallel to Obi-Wan’s “certain point of view” line from Return of the Jedi.

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leftshoe18 said:

“From my point of view the Jedi are evil!”

I think this line was put in just to be a parallel to Obi-Wan’s “certain point of view” line from Return of the Jedi.

It is but it’s just a really funny context to use those words.

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Oh yeah, “From my point of view…” is a notoriously silly line, but personally I don’t think it really contradicts his character too much at that point (he does have reasons to hate the Jedi even outside of the coup, like their lies and endless distrust of him, and general heartlessness towards his mum/Padme/Ahsoka, even if calling them ‘evil’ is a bit hyperbolic), it’s just Lucas-tier dialogue. I was trying to limit myself to removing just the one line that stood out to me as being detrimental for the audience’s understanding of Anakin’s motivations, since this is for a reasonably light-touch edit focused on making Anakin seem less stupid.

While you certainly can justify Anakin’s behaviour towards the end as the dark side jumbling his mind up so much he can’t remember what’s actually true, I’ve always thought that was a bit of a cop out. I do think there’s genuinely enough substance there in the save-Padme-and-himself plot thread of the movie to motivate each step towards his fall without resorting to him just going insane, or forgetting that Palpatine is the Sith Lord that orchestrated the war.

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sade1212 said:

Oh yeah, “From my point of view…” is a notoriously silly line, but personally I don’t think it really contradicts his character too much at that point (he does have reasons to hate the Jedi even outside of the coup, like their lies and endless distrust of him, and general heartlessness towards his mum/Padme/Ahsoka, even if calling them ‘evil’ is a bit hyperbolic), it’s just Lucas-tier dialogue. I was trying to limit myself to removing just the one line that stood out to me as being detrimental for the audience’s understanding of Anakin’s motivations, since this is for a reasonably light-touch edit focused on making Anakin seem less stupid.

While you certainly can justify Anakin’s behaviour towards the end as the dark side jumbling his mind up so much he can’t remember what’s actually true, I’ve always thought that was a bit of a cop out. I do think there’s genuinely enough substance there in the save-Padme-and-himself plot thread of the movie to motivate each step towards his fall without resorting to him just going insane, or forgetting that Palpatine is the Sith Lord that orchestrated the war.

It’s not necessarily that he can’t remember, just that he doesn’t want to remember. Just like anyone else, he wants to think that he’s being principled even though deep down he knows he’s not. He’s trying to justify himself to Obi Wan.

Also I think people often miss that the dark side is supernatural evil and it exerts a supernatural influence. That’s Palpatine’s main ability, to use that influence and temptation. When people fall to the dark side, it doesn’t have to make complete sense in real life terms. It goes a lot faster than someone “falling” in real life would. It has an addictive quality and affects people’s sanity. If Anakin’s words and actions seem a little baffling, that’s the point.

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Having just watched a compilation of Anakin being screwed over by the Jedi from The Clone Wars, I think I want to use your change in my RotS edit Sade. After everything, it makes sense for him to that conclusion, as awful and heartbreaking as it is. And because in my edit we also see Ahsoka dealing with the same doubt and making a different choice, it still carries the supernatural evil vibe as well.

I wanted to ask if anyone else thinks fixing the first 15 seconds of this scene seems possible? I think in terms of effects it would mostly be stabilizing the blade and finishing the rotoscoping of the floor as Shaak-Ti falls. Once that’s fixed, adding music and cleaning up the audio should be fairly straightforward. Thoughts?

My Edits:
Revenge of the Sith: Refocused Available

The Clone Wars Refocused: The Chosen One (Mortis Episode)

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Tantive3+1 said:

The concept of the Sith is a good idea but all the details that Lucas outlined about them should be ignored.

In ANH when Tarkin says “The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that’s left of their religion”. This implies that Vader is meant to be a “Dark Jedi” or a Jedi who uses the dark side of the force, so the word Sith shouldn’t be used in the PT.

Things like the Rule of Two were just made up as an explanation for why Vader and Palpatine were the only ones in the OT.

When Obi-Wan says to Vader “Only a master of evil Darth” this implies that this is the first part of his name and not a title that was given to him, so all other Sith/Dark Jedi shouldn’t have Darth in their names. Palpatine should just be known as Palpatine, Count Dooku should just be known as Count Dooku, and when the name Darth Vader comes up it shouldn’t be revealed that it’s referring to Anakin.

Another thing I want to bring up is that Palpatine should be the only one in the PT who uses Force Lightening.

Analog Releases of Films That Contain Deleted, Extended, & Alternate Footage That’ve Never Been Released on DVD/BluRay

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Anakin Starkiller said:

But why? Does it really need to be an ability unique to him?

Yeah, I don’t really see how the OT implies that only Palpatine can use force lightning. It feels like Tantive just made some personal assumptions about how things work after seeing the OT for the first time, and then got mad at the prequels for “contradicting the OT” when they really just contradicted his own personal headcanon.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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It would have been nice to save the lightning for the end of ROTJ, in as much as it makes Palpatine’s attack on Luke all the more crazy and horrific if you’ve never seen it used before. It would have been far better, IMHO, if Palpatine had never been involved in any combat at all until ROTJ.

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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StarkillerAG said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

But why? Does it really need to be an ability unique to him?

Yeah, I don’t really see how the OT implies that only Palpatine can use force lightning. It feels like Tantive just made some personal assumptions about how things work after seeing the OT for the first time, and then got mad at the prequels for “contradicting the OT” when they really just contradicted his own personal headcanon.

First of all, he didn’t even say that. He just expressed a perfectly normal preference that people have, the same way many editors cut Yoda fighting altogether or limit it to the one strike he makes during order 66.

It doesn’t imply anything either way. No one knew to call it “force lightning” yet either. This was before all the “force powers” were codified into limited video game/RPG spells. (Nothing against the games of course.)

As of ROTJ we have no idea what masters of the Force are capable of. For all we know, Palpatine could have been throwing fireballs or breathing poison gas or causing nightmare visions or raising up stormtrooper zombies. Technically according to expanded universe canon he probably could have done all of that.

Force lightning doesn’t have to be a unique ability to Palpatine, but it would be more interesting if other characters used other abilities. As it stands with the prequels, apparently the only direct visible appearance of the Force is with force lightning, and that seems a little disappointing.

There’s no reason anyone’s particular headcanon has to be worse than the actual movies. That’s what this whole website is about.

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timdiggerm said:

It would have been nice to save the lightning for the end of ROTJ, in as much as it makes Palpatine’s attack on Luke all the more crazy and horrific if you’ve never seen it used before. It would have been far better, IMHO, if Palpatine had never been involved in any combat at all until ROTJ.

Exactly.

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timdiggerm said:

It would have been nice to save the lightning for the end of ROTJ, in as much as it makes Palpatine’s attack on Luke all the more crazy and horrific if you’ve never seen it used before. It would have been far better, IMHO, if Palpatine had never been involved in any combat at all until ROTJ.

To be fair, you could say that about a lot of things.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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As it stands with the prequels, apparently the only direct visible appearance of the Force is with force lightning, and that seems a little disappointing.

Tbf, every movie introduced some sort of Force ability, including the Prequels. Most of them aren’t visible because the Force itself isn’t visible.

ANH: Mind Trick
TESB: Telekinesis
RotJ: Lightning
TPM: Speed
AotC: Lightning Absorption
RotS: Plagueis Deeplore
TFA: Freezing Blaster Bolts
TLJ: Projection
TRoS: Dyads