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Post #1480017

Author
Emre1601
Parent topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1480017/action/topic#1480017
Date created
14-Apr-2022, 3:03 PM
Last modified
14-Apr-2022, 3:08 PM
Edited by
Emre1601
Reason for edit
None provided

SparkySywer said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Of course everyone is grateful to George for Star Wars, his creation and his dedication, but Star Wars thankfully moved on far beyond George and his retconned and re-invented visions. There is so much more to try, to experience, and enjoy.

The irony of it is Original Trilogy fans can be the exact same way. So it’s not just a Prequels fans thing to do but something I’ve seen Original fans do as well.

Source: My bum

No, actually, I really want to call this out here. You just kind of… assert this and hope it’s taken as fact. Can you give any examples of OT fans behaving the exact same way? Just so the goalposts stay where they belong, specifically I’m looking for:

  1. Claiming the only reason people dislike the OT is because they didn’t understand it
  2. Gatekeeping, and adding a requirement of having done your summer reading watching stuff that isn’t the OT in order for your opinion on the OT to matter
  3. Rarely talk about what actually happens in the OT
  4. Rarely talk about what they actually enjoyed about the OT

All of these are par for the course when talking to a dyed-in-the-wool prequel zealot.

Isn’t it just as narrow focused to not try understanding a piece of art and claiming it’s boring without understanding all of the reasons for what it is actually telling us?

If this is you providing an example of OT fans being like that, then one, you don’t seem to understand what ken-obi was talking about, which seems to be the case when you say

Stardust1138 said:

So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

But more importantly, two, dude, seriously, the reason people disagree with you over these movies is actually not because they just don’t understand them. And I don’t want to hear about how much you understand and respect how movies are subjective or whatever just for you to hyperfixate on the totally not phantom menace of people who just don’t want to understand the super subtle prequels.

Stardust1138 said:

I’m done though for sure as it feels like I’m getting gaslighted for not using the exact words you want me to use

What a fascinating conversation this was.

> I think it’s silly how a lot of prequel fans act in bad faith in these conversations
> Prequel fans aren’t the only ones who are mean bullies, OT fans are like that too
> That’s not at all what I was talking about
> Well, I just have a different interpretation of what you said.
> Your interpretation was wrong. You’re saying I said things which I never did.
> Well, someone else also thought what I thought too.
> This does not change that you thought I meant one thing, and I actually meant something else
> I feel gaslighted and attacked

I don’t want to get personal, but I feel like I have to. You seem to have a chronic inability to admit when you’ve made a mistake and you seem to prefer just continually pulling up excuse after excuse instead of just saying “Oops, I am human and fallible and said something that was wrong.” You very clearly misunderstood what ken-obi was saying, literally why not just admit it?

You won’t get an answer. Not an answer that actually answers your points or questions, anyway.

Stardust certainly has problems apologizing for his mistakes, or when caught out making numerous false claims, but has no problem insulting others or trying to paint themselves as a victim. “Sorry, I got it wrong” does not exist in his vocabulary. Though I’d be happy to be proven wrong on this.
 

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Retcon said:

Stardust1138 said:

Darth Malgus said:

I agree with Stardust1138. There are many Prequel fans who behave toxic and offend all those who don’t think like them, but there are also many Original Trilogy fans who do the exact same thing. Idiots are everywhere, no matter what their opinion is. If a person is stupid no matter what his opinion is, he remains stupid regardless, because what makes a person stupid is not his opinions, but his behavior towards others. Explanations aren’t universal and there are things that can work for some people, but that cannot work for other people. For exemple, some people say that Revenge of the Sith doesn’t work as an introduction to the Original Trilogy, or that Rogue One doesn’t work as a prequel to A New Hope. Well, I have never felt this way and I have never managed to understand the point of view of those who support these ideas, but I have always respected their opinion, because the fact that those two films work for me doesn’t mean they can work for everyone. Thank God I became a Star Wars fan in 2018/2019, when the Prequel hate was already pretty much disappeared. If I had been a Star Wars fan between 2005 and 2012 I would have been treated like shit literally by everyone, since I love the Prequel Trilogy and I’m absolutely not willing to compromise on my personal tastes. I was lucky, because my personal tastes came to coincide with an historical period in which they weren’t considered stupid and attacked by everyone. But I don’t want to imagine what the Prequel fans had to go through between 2005 and 2012…

Exactly. It was a rough time until around 2016/2017. That’s when I feel the shift fully started. I also respect everyone’s opinion but it may not seem clear with how I tend to side more with George than fans.

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.”

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Have you seen The People versus George Lucas or the Red Letter Media “reviews”? They’re incredibly biased towards being against George Lucas, the Prequels, and anyone who likes them. They don’t hold equal discussion but merely what reinforces the majority.

It appears it is you are attempting some gaslighting.

If you have seen The People versus George Lucas you know people from this website contributed to it and featured on it, including the site founder and owner, and long time members. You may want to take a closer look at some of the threads on the documentary, and treat people here with more respect. Not condescension, whataboutery or attempts to play at portraying yourself as a victim, when you fuck up and get things wrong.

People have continued to direct you to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywwalking book, and the GL: Unreliable Narrator thread. Have you actually taken the time to read through them, or do you just ignore them and continue to expect people to watch the inane and off-topic links you post up on here?
 

Stardust1138 said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Digging oneself deeper by throwing YouTube videos at people, fascinating tactic.

dig up

I didn’t realise there were set rules of how to communicate a message and share information.

I know sometimes I can go a little far in explaining certain things but I’m merely relying what I know without any vendetta towards George. Some don’t like everything he did with Star Wars and that’s fine. However the need to vilify him and treat him like he doesn’t understand his story is defeating the purpose of knowing what Star Wars always meant. It’s personal for all of us but it’s even more personal to him as he created it to begin with.

Not being snarky and patronizing would be a good start on better communication with others on here.

George lies, deceives, retcons and is disingenuous in many of his claims over the years. These are the simply the facts, even if you don’t like that. Because this is one of the few forums that highlight his bullshit doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against him, or people are vilifying him, or can’t highlight his contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history.

As others have said: facts and the truth matter. “Ignoring facts doesn’t mean they cease to exist”.

Stop acting like a Lucas zealot. Or troll. Read and acknowledge what this forum is about. Engage people in good faith, actually listen and take on board what they have to say. Or just leave.

You can act like I’m the one being zealot but you’re the one who felt the need to go through my posts from last year to message me pointing out where you think I am wrong about certain things. So maybe you should take a look at yourself before you accuse me of being the only zealot one here.

I simply pointed out your posting style was winding people up on here. It appears that is still the case. I also offered suggestions and advice for you to better engage with others here. It appears you didn’t take the advice and continued on regardless - of course,that’s up to you. Yet you still can’t being yourself to apologize when you are caught out with your incorrect claims (as I highlighted to you).

I’m fine with myself. I’m not the one defending myself, yet again, for acting like a troll, getting it completely wrong, and then attempting to play the victim, instead of simply apologizing.

You can believe what you want to believe but I’m not the only one here who can go a little far in explaining my feelings on certain things. I’m fully aware I’m not perfect and make mistakes but to act like I’m the only one who is doing these things is blatantly false.

So you keep on repeatedly claiming. As demonstrated here: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Unpopular-Opinion-Thread/id/80996/page/22#1479909

I’ll leave the conversation there, before you try and attempt to somehow portray yourself as a victim once again.

It seems that it is a good move to leave the conversation, as Stardust does appear to be trying to be positioning himself as a victim, or the as the “wronged” party in this.