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Darth Vader birth scene, good or bad choice?

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One of the many things that i didn't liked about episode3, was that you see the "birth" of Vader, i know a majority of people wanted to see it, but i think it would have been better if Anakin was left for dead in the story, it would have preserved the "i'm your father" from Empire.
What do you think?

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I think people would have been mega pissed off with Lucas if Vader in the famous suit didnt appear, I cant imagine it really crossing Lucas mind about preserving the surprise as he sees as one big story and people would not be pleased with Anakin just to be left for dead and no proper conclusion..

I was suprised the way Anakin was christened as Vader by Palpatine as I expected it to happen after he was wearing the suit, one scene I may have a little grumble with is Palpatine saving Anakin it seemed slighty out for him to be bothered about him seeing as he is so evil and selfish,(how else could Lucas do it?)

I dont dislike the birth scenes and think the actual fitting up of the suit and Anakin having his robotic limbs done are good, now, I dont mind the "NOOOOOOOOO!"(it wasnt needed but oh well) and the Vader dialouge about Padme, and think Mcdiarmid was really good in the scene, I personally think a maybe better end to the movie would have been the Vader scene in the Destroyer not the Luke scene.

I also would have loved to see the him(suited Vader) in action but as we know Lucas sprang the surprise(to me) of (unsuited) Vader doing the business(maybe shown him actually killing a Jedi or two)
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The one negative in making any prequel to a story is actually showing the scene that we all envisioned in our minds for years. Everyone has a pre-conceived notion on how it should be done, it is hard to meet everyones expectations.

In some respects, that is why the prequels shouldn't have been made. The mystique of everything is gone. I didn't realize it then, but now I wish I didn't know why Vader turned to the darkside. It was actually better when I didn't know, and always wondered. I think the mystique of The Emperor is hurt by ROTS too.

Actually, the Darth Vader birth scene was done pretty well by Lucas, and I even liked how he had the mask lowered on his head coming straight at us, and then you hear him breathing. The yelling of , "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" was pretty bad, but that just went with a million other bad dialogue decision by Lucas, so by the end of ROTS I was used to it.

Overall, I just think, and I didn't think this way before the prequels were made, that the mystique of not knowing about Luke & Leias mom, how Vader turned bad, was Yoda a great fighter, was better the way it was in 1983....left to the imagination.
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I contend that GL should have left ROTJ open for sequels, and then made them when he wanted to come back to it. If he had this attitude, he might have kept his ESB crew to his side for ROTJ...
MTFBWY. Always.

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Originally posted by: CO


Overall, I just think, and I didn't think this way before the prequels were made, that the mystique of not knowing about Luke & Leias mom, how Vader turned bad, was Yoda a great fighter, was better the way it was in 1983....left to the imagination.


yeah, some movies are better when you picture them than when you see them!

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You mean, when he gets the name Vader, or when he gets the suit? Both were bad, but it could've been worse. I would've like to see the suited Vader with at least 15 minutes of screen time though, along with a few lines by Tarkin.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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If we weren't going to see suited Vader in action, I would rather not see him at all and have the 'I am your Father' surprise. I also wish that I could wipe my memory and go back to imagining how Vader fell to the Drak side, etc. I have recently decided to try and ignore the prequels and go back to imaging my own history as I watch teh OT, but I imagine it will be damn hard. I am even considering ignoring the general Star Wars forum and just hanging out solely in the off topic section so that I am not remeinded about the prequels.

War does not make one great.

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along with a few lines by Tarkin.

I was irritated about this at all. Not that we needed every little thing explained, but Tarkin just shows up in IV and orders Vader around. How did this happen?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

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“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
along with a few lines by Tarkin.

I was irritated about this at all. Not that we needed every little thing explained, but Tarkin just shows up in IV and orders Vader around. How did this happen?


Wouldnt it have been a great idea instead of Mas Amedda and Sly Moore to have had Tarkin or those Imperial Advisor guys from ROTJ..
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I was actually pleasantly surprised that he was christened Darth Vader while he was still completely human, because I've found that it's a common misconception that the suit makes Vader, and I was curious to see whether Lucas would give into that. So it still annoys me when people call it the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight when it's the Vader/Obi-Wan fight.

As for showing the birth of the mechanical Vader, I'm glad they did it (all "NOOOOOO"s aside). I think the best we can get out of that movie is the fanservice, and that's what we've been waiting six years to see. As for leaving Vader for dead and have it be a surprise... well, you shouldn't be watching the movies in that order in the first place, but if you are, the surprise is still ruined because he was already Darth Vader before his duel, and there wouldn't be more than one of them, so we'd immediately know who he is as soon as he's mentioned.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Gaffer, for that to work, Palpatine would not name him Vader on screen. We would only learn that Vader is Anakin on TESB. Now that I think about it, it could work, if one watched the movie from 1 to 6, and knew nothing about it beforehand.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Yeah, but then that would ruin my happiness of him being known as Darth Vader before he got the suit. It would only fuel the misconception that he was only Darth Vader after he got the suit.

Small nitpick, I suppose, but my happiness is important, darnit! ^_~

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I can't imagine any pt without some birth of vader thing. The only thing missing from RotS was a bacta tank and some explanation for the iron lung suit. It fits perfectly beside the unmasking at the end of the good trilogy.

We get nothing, vacuum-sealed chosen one to go and that's it. They can give him a new hand and later give his son one with fake flesh, but poor Vader has to walk around forever with that armor on. what a shame because the script writer didn't know what he was doing. what a shame.


Oh and I just figured out what a Mr. Bungle is... lol.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Gaffer, for that to work, Palpatine would not name him Vader on screen. We would only learn that Vader is Anakin on TESB. Now that I think about it, it could work, if one watched the movie from 1 to 6, and knew nothing about it beforehand.


yeah...but what about the OB1 speech to Luke in New Hope? Anakin would have to be called "Sith lord" or apprentice and then he becomes Vader between episode 3 and New Hope.
That means that OB1 knows who really is Vader...

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This whole saga is now defunct of any surprises if you watch them in order now, Lucas has managed to give away every plot twist in the OT. So it would be pointless hiding Vaders birth scene.
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Well, that's the point. No matter what Lucas claims, the films aren't meant to be watched in numerical order. It totally ruins it. I've said it many times, but the prequels exist solely to fill out the originals. Technically, they're part of the expanded universe, because they expand on the real story.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Well, that's the point. No matter what Lucas claims, the films aren't meant to be watched in numerical order. It totally ruins it. I've said it many times, but the prequels exist solely to fill out the originals. Technically, they're part of the expanded universe, because they expand on the real story.


What may I ask is the "real" story? Not to be rude... but Star Wars never actually happened. As far as I'm concerned, if Lucas wrote it, it "happened" as far as the movies go.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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It all depends on your school of thought, really...

I disown the prequels as 'true' Star Wars movies, mostly because it failed to live up to the OT and its glaring continuity errors in the backstory.
MTFBWY. Always.

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Originally posted by: theredbaron
It all depends on your school of thought, really...

I disown the prequels as 'true' Star Wars movies, mostly because it failed to live up to the OT and its glaring continuity errors in the backstory.


Just because they aren't good doesn't mean they aren't "true." I didn't like Die Another Day, but its still a Bond film .

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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he became darth vader before he was in the suit according to the movie. I liked the artist interpretation as on a card in the star wars galaxy series from topps where the emperor puts on vader's helmet as he is kneeling before him like a coronation ceremeony.

by the way palpatine kneeling over the half dead anakin is supposed to be a riff on obi wan kneeling over luke in a new hope.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Well, that's the point. No matter what Lucas claims, the films aren't meant to be watched in numerical order. It totally ruins it. I've said it many times, but the prequels exist solely to fill out the originals. Technically, they're part of the expanded universe, because they expand on the real story.


What may I ask is the "real" story? Not to be rude... but Star Wars never actually happened. As far as I'm concerned, if Lucas wrote it, it "happened" as far as the movies go.


I'm not trying to say that Star Wars is real, or that the prequels didn't exist. I'm just saying that the real or main story is what happens in the original trilogy. The prequels are simply a backstory, exposition that exists simply because all stories have to have it. But in order for a story to exist, you don't necessarily have to know all the backstory. In fact, it sometimes hurts the story if you know everything right off the bat. And that's why the prequels should not be watched first. And my comment about it being expanded universe also does not imply that it should not be considered canon (I personally think a lot of it shouldn't be considered canon, but I'm not stating it as fact) because it does what expanded universe types of stories do: it takes the real or main story and... expands on it!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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IMO I wish there was more Vader Time in Ep3 than just the last few mins. It would have been cool to see Vader turn on his light saber and just look into it with the glow shining back on his mask as his breath gets louder and louder then the screen goes black!
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Originally posted by: JangoxFett
IMO I wish there was more Vader Time in Ep3 than just the last few mins. It would have been cool to see Vader turn on his light saber and just look into it with the glow shining back on his mask as his breath gets louder and louder then the screen goes black!


I think it would've been cool to end the flick right after the mask it put on, and a full-body shot of Vader-- boom, fade to black.

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Just because they aren't good doesn't mean they aren't "true." I didn't like Die Another Day, but its still a Bond film.


Eh, barely. The spirit of Bond is so lacking in them, I look at the Brosnan films as in-name-only. Die Another Day, like all of the Pierce movies, was a cheeseball "action" flick with a character whose name happens to be Bond. At least that's how I see 'em.
We don't have enough road to get up to 88.
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Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
THE WHOLE SCENE REMINDED ME OF FRANKENSTEIN. I JUST DIDN'T LIKE IT.


honestly, i think that was probably one of the best scenes in the PT, because Lucas finally gave homage to a movie great.