logo Sign In

The intelligence of SW Fan boys.... — Page 2

Author
Time
Post link
Lemme tell you about the intelligence of fanboys:

Most fanboys don't recognize that the new Emperor scene actually CHANGES NOTHING. The worst accusation you can level at it is now redundancy. It certainly doesn't make any less sense than it's predecessor. Don't forget--the original dialog ALSO mentioned "Luke Skywalker" and "The Son of Skywalker." Adding "The rebel who destroyed the death star." doesn't change anything, and adding "How is that possible" doesn't change Vader playing dumb--remember, HE says "Skywalker is with them" in the very beginning. He knows who he's looking after he, he knows EXACTLY who he is in BOTH versions of the movie. There's no reason to explain anything because there's nothing to explain--the situation in BOTH versions is EXACTLY the same.

Most fanboys don't stop to think that if Anakin WAS CREATED BY THE FORCE, what's to stop him from choosing whatever little image he wants to choose? he's a GHOST. He's the frigging FULFILLMENT of an ages own prophecy. Maybe Ben and Yoda don't mind showing up as they were when they died. But then again, they also didn't have about 30 straight years of being Satan In An Iron Lung, either. How is there a continuity error when you're dealing with someone choosing their own image in the afterlife? This is not a new concept. And it shouldn't be something too hard for anyone to accept, either.

Most fanboys will praise up and down the depth, the mythical aspects, the gripping storytelling, but can't explain to you how or why any of that works in the context of the story in any real way, shape or form, beyond the most basic and rudimentary understanding of a potboiler or soap opera plotline. They're really quick to recite what some other semi-intelligent fanboy spouted off on some other messageboard, but if left to their own devices, they couldn't really tell you why some things simply don't work in a Star Wars setting, and why some things do.

Hell, most fanboys don't even take the time to actually learn just what the hell it is they're talking about. It's not as if there aren't about 3 or 4 biographies of Lucas, or 10 or 12 books detailing the making of the Star Wars Trilogy, or 5 or 6 different documentaries about the filming of the movies, and yet even the simplest anecdotes and easiest explanations are total blanks in their rhetoric, filled in by more soap opera characterization, and frustrated projection substituting for actual knowledge of the subject. People are certain that Lucasfilm is a giant mega-corporation with it's own CIA, bureau's and thousand-person staff, all top secret spies and subterfuge in every daily move, and they make sure to ascribe the most cliche, mustache-twirling 30's serial villain motives to any creative decision they don't agree with.

There's a lot most fanboys don't know, and I've found that most fanboys dont' WANT to know, because that might actually force them to stop and look at the shit they spew constantly, and realize how misguided, and often misinformed they are. How reactionary and petulant they sound. How irrational and improbable their little theories are, how amateur and cliche'd their creative re-writes are. Most fanboys don't want to hear any of that, because most fanboys aren't actually fans of star wars. They're fans of BITCHING about Star Wars.

That's most fanboys.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: The Bizzle
Lemme tell you about the intelligence of fanboys:

Most fanboys don't recognize that the new Emperor scene actually CHANGES NOTHING. The worst accusation you can level at it is now redundancy. It certainly doesn't make any less sense than it's predecessor. Don't forget--the original dialog ALSO mentioned "Luke Skywalker" and "The Son of Skywalker." Adding "The rebel who destroyed the death star." doesn't change anything, and adding "How is that possible" doesn't change Vader playing dumb--remember, HE says "Skywalker is with them" in the very beginning. He knows who he's looking after he, he knows EXACTLY who he is in BOTH versions of the movie. There's no reason to explain anything because there's nothing to explain--the situation in BOTH versions is EXACTLY the same.

Most fanboys don't stop to think that if Anakin WAS CREATED BY THE FORCE, what's to stop him from choosing whatever little image he wants to choose? he's a GHOST. He's the frigging FULFILLMENT of an ages own prophecy. Maybe Ben and Yoda don't mind showing up as they were when they died. But then again, they also didn't have about 30 straight years of being Satan In An Iron Lung, either. How is there a continuity error when you're dealing with someone choosing their own image in the afterlife? This is not a new concept. And it shouldn't be something too hard for anyone to accept, either.

Most fanboys will praise up and down the depth, the mythical aspects, the gripping storytelling, but can't explain to you how or why any of that works in the context of the story in any real way, shape or form, beyond the most basic and rudimentary understanding of a potboiler or soap opera plotline. They're really quick to recite what some other semi-intelligent fanboy spouted off on some other messageboard, but if left to their own devices, they couldn't really tell you why some things simply don't work in a Star Wars setting, and why some things do.

Hell, most fanboys don't even take the time to actually learn just what the hell it is they're talking about. It's not as if there aren't about 3 or 4 biographies of Lucas, or 10 or 12 books detailing the making of the Star Wars Trilogy, or 5 or 6 different documentaries about the filming of the movies, and yet even the simplest anecdotes and easiest explanations are total blanks in their rhetoric, filled in by more soap opera characterization, and frustrated projection substituting for actual knowledge of the subject. People are certain that Lucasfilm is a giant mega-corporation with it's own CIA, bureau's and thousand-person staff, all top secret spies and subterfuge in every daily move, and they make sure to ascribe the most cliche, mustache-twirling 30's serial villain motives to any creative decision they don't agree with.

There's a lot most fanboys don't know, and I've found that most fanboys dont' WANT to know, because that might actually force them to stop and look at the shit they spew constantly, and realize how misguided, and often misinformed they are. How reactionary and petulant they sound. How irrational and improbable their little theories are, how amateur and cliche'd their creative re-writes are. Most fanboys don't want to hear any of that, because most fanboys aren't actually fans of star wars. They're fans of BITCHING about Star Wars.

That's most fanboys.


Maybe, However the above fanboy ignores the url address of this website forum in his rush to defend Lucas' latest batch of poor and unnecessary changes.

The above fanboy misses the point of this site and its mission, which for the uninitiated is to: GET THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY ON DVD IN ITS UNALTERED UNMOLESTED FORM.

The above fanboy makes gross generalisations about fans of Star Wars. The above fanboy ignores the fact that many members here are involved in film to some degree or another and are horrified by revisions that cancel out the work of creative artisans and actors not to mention changes that serve to alter narrative and character. The above fanboy ignores the main cause of this campaign which is to preserve film history.

If you enjoy the changes, great.

MOST members of this site do not. Does that make them angry whining fanboys who enjoy bitching about Star Wars? Or does that make you a pathetic troll who comes to a site he's opposed to in order to post a vitriolic diatribe layered in sticky, funky Lucas 'apologism'. (That's right you heard me jack-off.)

If this site's cause upsets you then you're posting on the wrong forum.

Good day to you.

I said good DAY!
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Maybe, However the above fanboy ignores the url address of this website forum in his rush to defend Lucas' latest batch of poor and unnecessary changes.


What defense? You see defense--but where am I defending anything. I know I'm explaining a bunch of shit, but nowhere in there do I state which version I prefer and which I don't. See, I can analyze and understand things without having to come down with some sort of instant value judgment on it. I can dislike something and still explain why it works. Funny that for all the derisive laughing and pointing, a fanboy comes in and explains it very clearly--and there's no debate and you have to severely twist the entire post to "You don't like the point of this site" which is not at all the case, nor was it the point of the post.

I don't miss the point of the site, but then again, it seems most people on the site DO seem to miss the point, especially when the largest point of discussion on the messageboards is dedicated NOT to getting originals on DVD, but to applying THEIR OWN changes to the movies. The majority of people here don't REALLY want the originals, they want THEIR version of the Special Editions. They want the control of the franchised returned to them--without ever realizing they never had control of the franchise in the first place.

It seems most people on this site are more prone to overblown hyperbole and straw man arguments in order to put them and their wishes on some sort of moral pedestal when every single one of those complaints can easily be totally undercut. These superficial concerns are a facade for the REAL reason, which is "I just want the movies I grew up with." Which, by the way, SHOULD be enough. There's nothing to argue against, there, is there. No one can tell you that you SHOULDN'T have those, right? So why isn't the purest, most boiled down version of the argument enough?

But the problem is that most people on this site start bringing up crap like "horrified by revisions that cancel out the work of creative artisans and actors," crap that fully ignores the majority of that work by these creative artisans and actors are STILL in the movies, by a margin of roughly 80-20 percent, and the credits that roll at the end of the movie STILL give these people their recognition. I wonder how many of the people on this site, who are so concerned about these artisans and actors, even KNOW THEIR NAMES or know which artisan did what and where in the movies? Or how many people here even CARE about such things beyond the value it can give them in adding another plank to their soapbox they get to spew from? "we want to preserve film history." is a fine argument, if you ignore that the films ARE preserved, and have been preserved. Library of Congress. Smithsonian. Not to mention the tens of millions of copies on VHS and Laserdisc. The preservation argument has been handled pretty easily.

But once again, this is just a superficial issue constantly brought out to trump up the moral standing of a petulant child who is trying to add gravity and weight to what is essentially a full-blown temper tantrum. You don't want preservation, because you've already got that. You don't want the effects artists to be respected, because you can't even NAME these people.

Hell, you can't even RECOGNIZE that my above post wasn't a defense of Lucas, but an attack on fanboys who do more to harm their cause than to actually help it, who don't recognize the bullshit falling out of their head when they smell it. The point of the site makes perfect sense. My signature is ON this petition. The site's cause doesn't upset me. The people carrying the flag is what bothers me. Their illogical, irrational and hyperbolic dittohead ranting is what bothers me. The inability or unwillingness to attempt to critically think about anything beyond "I WANT WHAT I WANT AND I WANT IT NOW FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU" is what bothers me.

You got slapped in the face with a pretty point blank observation of the worst of the people carrying the originaltrilogy.com flag and didn't have anything to come back with but a stereotype and a rationalization that has nothing to do with what I posted. That's what bothers me.

What bothers me, at the core, is the issue of control. The fans who constantly assume they have rightful ownership of these movies because they bought tickets and cassettes and toys and blankets. The false sense of entitlement that turns even the most intelligent and well thought out arguments into the bleating of a spoiled brat's temper tantrum. The irrational personal hatred towards someone they've never met, and the blatant truth that people dont' have problems with changing the originals, they have problems with LUCAS changing the originals. They're perfectly fine with MagnoliaFan changing them, and they're perfectly fine with REPLACING theatrical versions with MagnoliaFan's (on a site called originaltrilogy.com) but they can't stand when Lucas himself does it. That's really hypocritical and borderline mind-boggling. Only Star Wars fans have gone so far over the deep end that they consider CONSUMING PRODUCT an act worthy of OWNERSHIP. As if choosing to spend money on something puts the creator in some kind of DEBT to us. That notion is just silly as hell. People have fixated too long on these movies and have poured what meager creative energies they have into someone else's creation and they resent that the creator actually has repossessed his own creation to "fix" as he sees fit, and they can't stand that. And it's THAT undertone that taints the best posts here. And what people here dont' recognize is it's that undertone that probably is hindering your efforts more than anything.

And yet, I can say all these things and please note there is not a SINGLE DEFENSE OF A SINGLE CHANGE in there. Amazing how that works.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
Author
Time
Post link
Good post Bizzle.

It's actually refreshing to see quality thoughts, even though I don't agree with most of your generalising, and it's even MORE refreshing to read posts from people who can spell.

I agree that things are a tad counter-productive when all some seek to do is insult rather than look for solutions.

It's true there ARE a great many angry fans who sometimes come down heavily on Lucas and this board lets a fair amount of crap go unchecked, just witness ANY of Jimbo's posts. But the rage and disgust at betrayal is not altogether unjustified. Lucas has ruined these films in order to update them to fit the world as it is now and in so doing has told his loyal fanbase (a member of which I can't say I've been since about 1997) that the films they loved are gone but the new films will do fine. The new films will do fine.

Well not all of us are falling for the old Lucas mindtricks. These new films will not do fine.

You may not have come down on one side or another in favour or against the changed scene/s but you're wrong in saying that its alteration affects nothing. The information is twice told, hammered home to the back row and at the very least it is a change that is indicative of the general dumbing down of society.

The scene worked perfectly fine before and while this is one of the least ruinous changes to the films it is certainly an unwelcome change. At least it is for this little black duck. I liked it just fine before and by saying that it is still EXACTLY the same as it was you ARE defending Lucas' unneeded/unwanted changes whether you know it or not and whether you care to admit it or not.

Can I name each and every artisan or actor whose work has been altered or erased? No of course not. Did I enjoy their work more before it was SpecialEditionised? Yes I certainly did. Is 80% a smaller percentage than 100%? Yes it is. Why should I accept less of something I enjoyed?

Do I know Sebastian Shaw's name? Is that a rhetorical question? (The second one sure was.)

Could your explanation of Hayden's appearance at the end of ROTJ be considered more Lucas 'apologism'? (Another rhetorical question.)

The change is an insult and the Lucas camp explanation is an insult, half finished films my arse.

Is VHS the best current medium to preserve a film?

DVD is the current medium for watching films without a machine chewing certain scenes. Lucas has shown that he isn't willing to release the Original films, as we knew them and loved them, onto this format.

The kind of revisionist history that Lucas is trying to pull IS resulting in bootlegs, I got mine, and I think we're all a bit peeved because we'd rather have an official set without Hayden's dumbarse stoned looking head floating on Sebastian Shaw's body.

The Original versions of the Original films deserve respect. The fans of these films deserve respect.

If Lucas isn't going to respect us I really don't see too much reason to respect him. Civility certainly, decorum and restraint absolutley but respect? Fuck that guy.
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
Author
Time
Post link
Bizzle, I can see that you put some thought into your posts. And I respect that. But I find I agree with Regicial - you are still missing some of the principle in the argument of this site.
The new versions are not AS GOOD as the originals - THAT IS a matter of opinion. But as you stated, the principal argument, the argument with the least grounds for refute, is simply that we want the Originals. And why not? (Like you said).
But I think you hasten over this point, and move on to saying that we should be able to appreciate the SEs on the same level. I dont think this works, not for me personally, and I can sense not for other people on this forum.
I have to go with Regicidal on this - its not rational to want to be respected when you are not first willing to respect.
"You don't own space, so stop actin' like you do."
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
I have to go with Regicidal on this - its not rational to want to be respected when you are not first willing to respect.


Hey, that makes perfect sense. But I dont' think I'm saying anywhere in there that you should move onto the SE's at all. I don't see where you're reading into that. I mean, maybe you're so used to people arguing that point in more typical internet debates (I know I've seen it more often than not--I think it's just as bad when people trot out that "Lucas could CG the whole thing and set the negatives on fire and I'd be fine, they're HIS MOVIES NOT YOURS" chestnut. That's just as bad as "Lucas raped my childhood.") But that's not really what I'm saying at all. I mean--I signed the petition, and I have two different OT bootlegs. If someone doesn't feel like moving onto the SE's, they don't have to, not at all. And I don't want them to do that against their will.

BUT: The respect issue still smacks of irrational reaction. For one..I don't really see how respect figures into it. Respect is something that comes from an actual relationship. I don't know if you can talk about Lucas disrespecting you if you've never met him. I don't think Lucas' refusal to release the originals has anything to do with a disrespect to his fans. I don't think that even enters into it at all. Because that hints at Lucas being spiteful, and I don't see that being realistic. That seems to be more coming from an inflated sense of importance in the whole deal, a misguided sense of the fans place in creative, artistic decision. It starts pointing back towards that feeling of entitlement. I've found there's entirely more evidence pointing towards a healthy respect for the audience coming from Lucasfilm, but not to the point where he's willing to cede any creative control to them. This is a man who is VERY hung up on creative control, and always has been. BUT--I'm not convinced his passion for creative control is equal to disrespecting his audience. I don't really see that. Now, if, in ANY of his interviews regarding this subject, he let ANYTHING out that somewhat hinted at him doing this with a modicum of spite or disrespect, I could maybe see it. But it seems to me that, just as when he was writing and producing the original trilogy from 74-82, he's not even looking at that aspect of it when he's thinking of the movies. I don't think that's disrespect, it's just simply not a factor.

I think the majority of the disrespect is flowing FROM the fans TOWARDS Lucas. I can understand being disappointed at not getting the originals, because I'm disappointed as well. But I think the difference is that I didn't take it as personally as other people have, I haven't elevated that disappointment into vendetta because I don't have an official DVD version. I understood that my role is consumerist at best. That's it. I consume, or I don't. And if they don't want to provide the product I'm wanting...I'll check other avenues. But I never took it as a personal affront that I didn't get that choice, because that just seems really immature and irrational. It's not a respect thing. it's a creative control thing. That's so far outside my role in this thing that it's not even a question. I respect that I'm at least getting 90% of the originals, and I'm disappointed that I'm not ALSO getting the originals, but the idea of being personally insulted by the actions of a man I've never met, talked to, or done anything but read about, doing nothing but merely exercising his creative control, regardless of whether I agree with those decisions or not.

And by the way, I don't agree with all those decisions. But I'm also a weird fan in that I don't think these movies are flawless examples of motion picture greatness. I love em--but they're not as great as they've been overzealously built up to be.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
Author
Time
Post link
But keep in mind that this is NOT creative control of any type, but heavy-handed ownership control and manipulation of someone else's creation.

To say that Lucas is simply "editing his creation" is pure stupidity to the max.
http://web.newsguy.com/theprofessional/ebay/sw_logo_s.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
The above fanboy makes gross generalisations about fans of Star Wars. The above fanboy ignores the fact that many members here are involved in film to some degree or another and are horrified by revisions that cancel out the work of creative artisans and actors not to mention changes that serve to alter narrative and character. The above fanboy ignores the main cause of this campaign which is to preserve film history.


Well said, Regicidal, well said.

I really have no idea what these Lucas Loving Fanboys have against releasing the Original Trilogy Theatrical Version?

Are they afraid that fans, if given the choice, will flock to the superior OT over the crappy SSE 2004 drek? Or are the brain-dead Fanboys so enamored with Lucas that they adhere to a "it's his way or the highway" mentality, and kiss their Jar Jar doll every morning?

http://web.newsguy.com/theprofessional/ebay/sw_logo_s.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
but heavy-handed ownership control and manipulation of someone else's creation.


That belies an overall ignorance of how the movies were made, which goes back to my point that most fanboys don't really WANT to know what they're talking about because that'll knock holes in a lot of their righteous indignation.

He created the entire universe, and every character in it. Those are his. He wrote the story for every movie, and co-wrote the screenplay to Empire Strikes Back. Kasdan holds sole credit, but Lucas wrote 2 drafts before Kasdan came on, and Kasdan didn't change anything plotwise. He fixed the dialog (Thank God) and tightened up the pacing, but the story and events are just as Lucas originally wrote them before Kasdan got the draft to rework. Further story meetings all included Lucas, Kasdan and Kurtz, with Lucas and Kasdan hammering out points of contention. To say that's not his creation is ludicrous.

The same thing happened with Return of the Jedi, which was changed even less. The man directed 75% of Return of the Jedi by admission of anyone who ventured near the set during filming. Kershner put his stamp on the visual and character interaction in Empire Strikes Back, but the story, the plot, the characters, and the arc--that was Lucas. He sank the money into it, he wrote, he directed, he produced, he edited--save for the music, there isn't really a single aspect of any of these three films that Lucas didn't have creative control over.

These movies ARE his creations. He had other people help in the execution, and in that execution some new ideas were implemented, of course, but to say he's screwing up other people's creations is shortsighted and unfair, if not outright ignorant of how the movies were really made. It gives too much importance to Kasdan, Kershner, Kurtz, Kazanjian (what's with all the K's, jesus) Williams, Burtt, etc...that's not to take away from what they did at all, but it's just as unfair to give them more credit than they deserve as it is to say EVERYTHING was Lucas, down to correcting the angle on a popsicle stick poking out of the Death Star models.

Once again, I'm not saying the choices he's made since 1983 have been all showstoppers, but that doesn't mean these films, their subject matter, their stories, the universe they inhabit and the characters in that universe are not all creations of George Lucas, because they are. That's just how it is. It's pretty easy to step back and see that. It gets harder when you hang onto this weird, misguided sense of entitlement and pride that fanboys use to keep themselves overdramatically angry and indignant. When you don't purposefully drag in this sense of being personally assaulted into it, being able to look at it with a balanced eye gets a WHOLE lot easier. It doesn't become an exercise in seeing how many overused stale insults you can cram into a sentence.

Quote
I really have no idea what these Lucas Loving Fanboys have against releasing the Original Trilogy Theatrical Version


And that's just another example of you being willfully ignorant of what's actually being said. There isn't a single sentence in any of my posts here that even HINT at me being AGAINST the release of the Original versions on DVD. As a matter of fact, there's very blatant statments to the OPPOSITE of that effect. And the above is one of the biggest straw man arguments ever deployed in this argument. The majority of fans I've talked to across the world wide web, who actually DON'T MIND the Special Editions, would LOVE to have the original versions released. They're certainly not for SUPPRESSING them. They want to take the trip down nostalgia lane as well. They're just not as personally insulted and overdramatically raging at the fact they can't do that with an official release yet. That doesn't equal them wanting to SUPPRESS the originals at all.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
Author
Time
Post link
WOW! Bizzle and Regicidal_Maniac great, great posts. Both of you have very valid points and both have given me a lot to think about. You're right. I just want the movies I grew up with.

To get back to what this thread was originally about. I have visited the official site many, many times and the two big discussions that I find most amusing are the who Master Sifo Dias (I'm not sure how that is spelled) is or was and his so called importance and the Palpatine/Darth Sidious discussions. I've read some really ridiculous things on both topics. Sifo Dias was really Qui Gon, Palpatine isn't Sidious but is really being controlled by him, Sidious will be Emperor after he kills Palpatine, Palpatine is a clone of Sidious, ect. These always strike me as funny and stupid at the same time.

The one thing that I have noticed from most 'fanboys mentality' is that they try to look for hidden meanings that just aren't there. They also tend to read more into these stories. These are simple stories with fairly simple plots. Looking for deeper meanings is, at least for me, a waste of time. Yes, I do speculate about how things will play out from movie to movie. However, I just don't get where some of these outrageous theories come from. I’m guessing from the EU books. Since I don’t read each and every one of those, all I have to base my thoughts, opinions and speculations on are the movies. Anything outside of the movies or the books based on the movie screenplays bears no meaning for me. I have only ever read the original Han Solo trilogy, Splinter of the Mind’s Eye and the Thrawn trilogy. I understand that Lucas has taken characters, places and ideas from the EU books and used them in the prequels. However, looking for clues in the EU books just seems rather pointless to me.

Keeping The Star Wars Hoiliday Special alive. Once person at a time. Stir, stir, whip, whip, stir, beat, beat.
Author
Time
Post link
hey, that was a pretty good post too, R2.

Seriously though, most of the problem comes just from visiting super-huge fanboy sites in the first place. You're not ever going to find really good discussion at places like the StarWars.com boards, or TheForce.Net's boards. It's a magnet for people who just feel like screaming into the void. Or, on the other side of the spectrum it's a place for people who think that because there's such a huge memberbase, they can piggyback onto the Star Wars name and funnel all THEIR mediocre creative talents into messageboard posts instead of trying to cultivate them on their own.

All reading that stuff is going to do is either a) depress you b) frustrate you c) anger you.

but yeah, R2, you're right, a lot of these weird theories come from people reading EU and not even stopping to consider that the EU is basically marketing, and has jack to do with the movies outside of keeping the brand on shelves. Not to say the content isn't good sometimes. But they forget that George Lucas doesn't write the books, and they assume that if he let them get published, then he must have either read them, or helped write them. Which is very erroneous, but once again--most fanboys don't really WANT to know what they're talking about. They have more fun trading ignorant statements
The Best Show You've Never Heard
Author
Time
Post link
The Bizzle, thanks for all your posts, someone had to say it, and you did great.
I wish I had a Kryptonite cross, because then you could keep both Dracula AND Superman away.
Author
Time
Post link
While Im sure you dont generalize that everyone on this forum is a fanboy, I feel the need to make it clear that im not. However, I find myself in concurrance with these fanboys quite often.
Bizzle, as we deepened this conversation I see more and more about your argument that I agree with. I can really appreciate your perspective.

Where we still seem to disagree is on the topic of GL's obligations. Im not being a vindictive brat, he didnt "ruin my childhood," etc. Nonetheless, I feel that Lucas is indeed in debt to the Star Wars fanboys you speak of, as well as casual fans like myself. The position that he is currently in, to make these movies into whatever he would like (to complete them as he would have it), is soley the result of the fanbase created by the Original films. We can split hairs over this argument all day if you like...but I think you would have to concede, on some level, that this is accurate.
Dont get me wrong, Im not saying that they are our movies. Not by any means. And I dont really support the "re-visions" that fans have given the Prequels.
But I think that Lucas owes some level of respect to the fanbase. In an interview with EW I think, its been on another thread here, he is asked "whether or not he takes into consideration the opinions of fans when making these changes?" (My words). He responds "Not really, they are my movies, to do with what I like" (Again, my words, but the effect is accurate).

Now, Im not debating that with him, nor with you. They arent the fan's movies. But I think its silly of him to completely disregard the people who put him in the position he is in today.
This all goes without mentioning the other obligations I think he has, which I wont expand on as much. I believe he owes it to the entire community of film to preserve the originals the best way possible. Something as influential, and revolutionary as the o-OT should be around, for generations to come. (Oddly I was reflecting on a quote from the side of the 95 Faces Box Set, where it says something about "our children's children, blah blah" - another batch of wtf?)
There have been other suggested obligations, but I feel like they arent as defensible.

I really dont think we are at complete opposition Bizzle. Perhaps we just have a different point of view, and thats great. If all of us felt the same way about everything, a boring life it would be.


Back to topic, and in reply to R2s post. I really think you hit it on the head, about looking into things too much. I mean, im all for an intricate universe with all sorts of off-screen subplots. But thats all they are. Its glorified fan-fiction. Dont break your brain on it too much, its really not worth it.

Peace, Lethe


EDITED, FOR ONCE AGAIN I AM STRICKEN BY THE RARE DISEASE CSS - CANT SPELL SHIT.
"You don't own space, so stop actin' like you do."
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Which is very erroneous, but once again--most fanboys don't really WANT to know what they're talking about. They have more fun trading ignorant statements


You're really full of yourself aren't you pinbrain.

Now you REALLY don't believe the BS you just spouted about Lucas writing and directing all three movies, now do you? If so, then you should really do more research into the contributions of others (not even noted on the credits) and exactly what "Lucas direction" really is.

If you had a clue, you'd know that Lucas CANNOT write a screenplay to save his life. Everyone involved in the film industry knows this, just as they know that Star Wars was directed by committee, with Lucas calling in tons of favors from talented friends and cohorts. To say he directed and wrote ESB is a real joke, and you should be publicly flailed for even uttering this Lucas-Loving Fanboy crap.

So before spouting more GROSS INACCURACIES and TOTAL BULLSHIT on here, please do some research, talk to industry people, and even do some reading.

http://web.newsguy.com/theprofessional/ebay/sw_logo_s.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Dont break your brain on it too much, its really not worth it.


Belive me, I don't. I just find it really strange that most of the 'fan boys' have these totally outrageous ideas about what is going to happen in the next film. It's almost like they can't see the forest for the trees. Know what I mean? They get obsessed about the strangest things. The cave on Dagobaugh. Another of my favorites, does or doesn't Kenobi know about Leia. That has always been pretty obvious to me. Yes, he knew. He's the one to tell Luke that he has a sister. I mean, these things are staring them right in the face and they spend more time speculating on things that when it comes down to brass tacks, the stuff has already been explained. It just makes no sense to me. Talk about wasted energy. Don't get me wrong. I like good, intelligent, logical speculation. I am curious how the events of ROTS are going to play out, but being obsessed with Sifo Dias is silly. The man was killed. How or why really isn't important. The answer to what everyone wants to know is simple. Count Dooku used Sifo Dias' name to order the Clone Army. It's so obvious. Why waste all of this energy trying to fomulate a theory that he was really Qui-Gon? Qui-Gon is dead. He's pretty much out of the story.

My absolute favorite one is still the many, many ways that Palpatine and Sidious absolutely can't be the same person. Bull. I can just hear the fan boy gasps when in ROTS Sidious takes off his hood and it's Palpatine. "Oh my God! It's Palpatine!" Duh! The man becomes Emperor. He's been slowly manipulating these events from the beginning. Have any of the these fan boys EVER read the novels for Star Wars, Empire and Jedi? The answers to just about everything that happens in the prequels is pretty much spelled out. The only things that I can think of that we didn't know before the prequels were who Luke and Leia's mother was or when and exactly how Anakin became Vader.
Keeping The Star Wars Hoiliday Special alive. Once person at a time. Stir, stir, whip, whip, stir, beat, beat.
Author
Time
Post link
I just love how much the term "fanboy" is so universally applied by all to all, in some vain attempt to characterize oneself as less of a Star Wars geek than the person one is arguing with.

You are all SW geeks, boys and girls. Get over it.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
Sure, there are a lot of geeks, but FANBOY is a very specific term applying to an almost religious adulation of a CURRENT pop culture phenomenon. You follow the subculture, toe the company line, support the new media such as movies, books, games, etc., all while keeping the basic mantra of the Star Wars Fanboy:

Lucas is creating his vision!

If you're against the Special Editions, the Prequels and/or the 2004 SSE DVDs, then by definition you are not a Star Wars or Lucas fanboy.. more like a born-again Anti-Fanboy.
http://web.newsguy.com/theprofessional/ebay/sw_logo_s.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
tHIS BOARD IS QUICKLY GOING TO THE DOGS, WITH ALL THIS FANBOY/ANTI-FANBOY, AND THE REALLY NASTY ANTI LUCAS BASHING,

IT'S GETTING BORING REAL QUICK!
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: buddy-x-wing
tHIS BOARD IS QUICKLY GOING TO THE DOGS, WITH ALL THIS FANBOY/ANTI-FANBOY, AND THE REALLY NASTY ANTI LUCAS BASHING,

IT'S GETTING BORING REAL QUICK!


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....*sign*....Yup. I ditto that. Damn, damn, damn dirty apes. Ungrateful...the lotta ya.
  • Todd

STAR WARS: Symphony for a Saga

Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: buddy-x-wing
tHIS BOARD IS QUICKLY GOING TO THE DOGS, WITH ALL THIS FANBOY/ANTI-FANBOY, AND THE REALLY NASTY ANTI LUCAS BASHING,

IT'S GETTING BORING REAL QUICK!


And the voice of reason finally steps in.

Thanks Buddy-X.

Though, to be honest I don't think we'll be seeing an end to the inane Lucas-bashing and fanboy-tagging anytime soon, with that being all Sam_Lu seems to be able to talk about.
For as much as some people claim to hate what Star Wars has become, they sure seem incapable of shutting up about it.
Author
Time
Post link
As I fan of the EU, I'd like to point out that, no, it is not the source of the bull circulating about Palpatine, et all. Don't assume that all it's readers are psychos. ^_^


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author
Time
Post link
There are still a lot of legitimate threads on the forum. I think if you are tired of the fanboy/anti-fanboy thing you steer away from threads titled "The intelligence of SW Fan boys...."

Im not trying to be a jerk, obviously your input is appreciated wherever you want to give it. If you feel like these particular discussions are getting old, there are some great ones still around. Im with you for the most part, now that the DVDs are out - I dont want to see this board turn into one big ANTI-Lucas rant...So those of us with deeper interests should try to keep the board alive and healthy, no?

Peace, Lethe
"You don't own space, so stop actin' like you do."
Author
Time
Post link
"I think if you are tired of the fanboy/anti-fanboy thing you steer away from threads titled "The intelligence of SW Fan boys...."

Agreed. Too bad one has to exist to begin with.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
I'd simply like to clarify:

Fanboy isn't a derogatory. I don't know when it BECAME a derogatory to Star Wars fans, it wasn't before, but once again, I think people are just kinda running with half-truths they saw on some other messageboard and using it like they really know what they're talking about.

Anyone who takes the time to register online, to post opinions about a movie with giant talking slugs, frog/kangaroo hybrids, little green men with hairy ears and bearded heroes who wear terrycloth and have laserswords--is a fanboy. There's no negative or positive in it. The word comes from the comics world, where it's pretty easy to see that "Fanboy" was just a cutesy comics-style nickname for a a comics fan. Someone who's a little more deep into that fantasy world than the average joe.

when I use fanboy--I'm not using it as an exclusionary. I'm simply using it to define the kind of people who would go online and spend about 5000 words talking about Star Wars and not even question whether they're wasting their time or not.

Everyone here is a fanboy.

whether you're a cool fanboy or a dickhead fanboy is completely up to you.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
Author
Time
Post link
I want to be a Clickhead Fanboy, is that ok?

Whats a Clickhead Lethe?

Shit, I dunno...I was typing while watching the debates...guess I shouldnt do that in the future.

Please dont mind me.
"You don't own space, so stop actin' like you do."