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Return of the Jedi - was it what it was meant to be? — Page 2

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As a kid I loved ROTJ the most out of the OT. Seeing at 9 years old, it was the perfect cap for a great trilogy. Now 22 years later, it is funny how some films don't hold up as well as others. Now ESB is my favorite, with ANH a close #2, and Jedi is last. I still like Jedi, as I don't have a hatred like I do towards most of TPM, and some parts of the AOTC and ROTS. Looking at the movie now, it could have been so much better.

First off the Wookie Planet. I understand the technology aspect Lucas was shooting for, the David vs. Goliath, but if Endor would have been Kashykk, ROTJ would never get labeled 'kiddie'. I just watch the Ewoks now, and though Jar Jar is unbearable in TPM, the Ewoks hurt the seriousness of the movie. A really cool Wookie battle against the Stormtroopers would have made ROTJ a much darker movie that it needed to be.

The second death star isn't bad, though it is not creative like ESB. ESB showed us everything we never saw: Hoth, Dagobah, and Bespin. ROTJ showed everything a second time: Tatooine, Death Star II, and though we never saw Endor, the woodsy terrain was very dull. I would have liked to see them invade the Emperor's home planet, like some original ideas. Have the spacebattle with Han, Leia, Chewy, and the Droids, and have Lando in another ship attacking the blockade over Coruscant, that would have been a spectacular space battle.

You could still have Luke surrender to Vader, and still have the great scene between Emperor/Vader/ and Luke, but do it on The Emperors turf, maybe over a sea of lava. How ironic would it be for Vader to throw The Emperor into Lava when that is what almost did him in against Kenobi? Now some of these ideas probably couldn't have been achieved to due the special effects at the time, but who knows Lucas & Co. were pretty damn creative.

The other aspect is the long Jabba sequence in ROTJ. I loved this part as a kid, but now it does have its moments, but I think it goes on way too long. I always thought of Jabbas palace like a King, where you can't just walk in off the street. True they all had disguises to get in, but I would have like to seen them travel a couple of floors to get to Jabba, put some suspense in it. You can still have the rancor, as maybe Luke falls through a trap door, but keep everyone moving, that is why it is dull at some points, because everything is at a standstill. Also make it harder to save Han, maybe Lando get injured in the process. You can also still do the Sail Barge because Luke, Leia, and Han, always get caught, but in true Star Wars form, they always survive.

Well, that is what I think could have made ROTJ better, but I guess we have what we have. Oh well.
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I haven't gone back and looked at it, but it seems like for Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, the Jabba bit gives us like 30 minutes before we actually see some stars. I'm sure there is a Vader/Palp scene thrown in there for alittle bit, but nothing that brings the galaxy to the forefront like the other films.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Yeah, I've noticed that too, that Return of the Jedi seems very... domesticated, for lack of a better term.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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It's really interesting to ponder, and find out what was planned or discussed, and what was actually made. But even if it was meant to be something else (or something "greater"), I think it holds up rather well. The Ewoks really aren't all *that* annoying (and they kick some bad guy ass and are more relevant than, say, Jar Jar), and the flick still excites. I did see it in the theater, but I was 5 or 6, and didn't see it a whole lot on video. So watching it now, I don't really have tons of nostalgia for it-- I just think it's a pretty well-done movie for what it was, when it was. There are some great parts, and it was a decent wrap-up to the trilogy. Much of what was done to it for the special edition(s) was pretty shitty, though ("Jedi Rocks"?!?).

Now, if you wanna talk about a big disconnect between what something was meant to be (or could've been), I believe there are these thing called the prequels...
We don't have enough road to get up to 88.
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lucas did for lack of a better term bland star wars out with jedi, which really continued with ep. 1 and 2
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I thought it was common knowledge that Leia wasn't to be the 'other' that was referred to? Don't they say as much in the 'screenplays' book that came out (Oh and if you can, you should really look at the 'Jedi Council' roundtables on AICN - there's some great great stuff on there). Luke DID have a sister but it wasn't supposed to be Leia, and as far as I remember, an increasingly coked-up and badly behaved Carrie Fisher started making demands, one of them being that it would be a lot more intersting if she were made Luke's sister. In fact she is said to detail all of this in her book (Should be due out soon). It contains all of her diaries and tells of the making of all 3 movies.

Do you really think that if the plan were to have Leia as Luke's sister they would've had that forced love triangle in Episode 4? Granted it isn't a love triangle as such, but there's defiantely something there. It's abandoned more or less for ESB but then it's tonally completely different from ANH anyway.
http://timeonmyside.blogspot.com/
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It is agreed upon by many that rotj could've been a better film, but there are still some very powerfull moments in the film, in fact some of my favorites in the trilogy. Besides the fact that fett goes down like a chump, and theres teddy bears instead of wookiees in the ground battle, originally was going to be Kashyyk not endor. The confrontation with vader and the emperor was supposed to be on then named had abbadon, capitol planet world of the empire imperial center (coruscant came from some eu author), in it's very depths so far down their would be lava in the emperors inner sanctum, not the death star II.

luke and leia unknowingly being brother and sister is an old archetype concept and I think lucas took it from greek and roman mythology, notwithstanding that he kept going back and forth over whether or not she should be his sister, or vader his father that is what he finally decided upon.

Luke's story originally was supposed to be 6 films, and was compressed to three. , in the original plan that also left the prequels and the sequels, that is why there were twelve episodes planned. the story that could've taken another 4 films to tell after empire strikes back was compressed to fit one movie.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I have read many prototype screenplays of ROTJ and Star Wars in general, and I contend that he intended to make somewhere between 9 and 12 episodes as a kind of serial, and had no intention of making prequels whatsoever. I think the closure of ROTJ pretty much sealed the deal, making it *almost* impossible for sequels. I think he thought he was done with it, and then later on he was compelled to revisit Star Wars, and had no option but to either make prequels, or an entirely different trilogy. But who knows?

Skyjedi, also in that early ROTJ script, the Emperor takes Luke to a kind of Tomb, where Obi-wan returns from the Force 'netherworld' to help Luke. I think you can find it on IMSDB.com.
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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I remember seeing Lucas on Charlie Rose last year right before the DVD set came out, and he said something interesting.

(I am paraphrasing) Lucas said, "In the early 90's, I was faced with doing the Prequels or just going a totally different way for the movies I was going to make for the rest of my career. On one hand, I knew if I made the prequels, I would make enough money so I could be able to do whatever I wanted in the future."

In the early 90's, Lucas was still recovering from his divorce from Marcia, which he took a big hit financially, and Lucasfilm wasn't pretty much running even every year. Lucas figured, though it wasn't a sure bet, that another trilogy would make muchoo dollars, and he would finally be set for life, to make and afford any film he wanted to do.

Maybe that is the reason the first two prequels were geared to a younger (or childish) audience to make the most of the movie market? Lucas maybe was afraid to make an edgier movie like ESB, that it wouldn't maximize profits, and though TPM was mostly panned by critics, and so was AOTC, they both still made 900 & 650 million dollars worldwide, and that isn't counting toys, DVDs, etc. By the time he got to ROTS, though it was already a darker story, he was able to get a PG-13 rating, because the money was already made.

Just a thought? What do you guys think?
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i definitely think thats why he made the prequels, but i think he couldve made them more entertainingly, wouldnt that have ensured bigger profits?
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I think we've already established that it doesn't really matter what Lucas releases... as long as it's Star Wars, it'll make a lot of money.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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well then i definitely think he did it for the money.
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Originally posted by: battlewars
i definitely think thats why he made the prequels, but i think he couldve made them more entertainingly, wouldnt that have ensured bigger profits?


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That is the ironic thing, he thought he had to make them kiddier to maximize his audience, but Lord of the Rings and Revenge of the Sith at a PG-13 Rating proved that it could make just as much money. Another miscalculation.
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I agree it was a misculation Sith is in my opinion is the most universally liked prequel by the fans and critics and also in my opinion the most liked by the Classic Trilogy fanbase, some who are turned off by the other two .
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Why is there such the dislike towards Jedi? I always liked it and thought it was a good film.
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dont ask me espescially since the prequels are much better targets
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Originally posted by: battlewars
dont ask me espescially since the prequels are much better targets

Do you go ever on T.F.n Bashers Sanctuary ever, there is a right Prequel slaughter going on over there..


Why is there such a dislike towards Jedi? I liked it and thought it was a good film.



It is a good film, but the weakest of the Classics I feel, which are great films, I think maybe the antics at Jabba palace and the Ewok village take away some of the greatness, as the rest is very good and better than most of P.T,

I think George had enough of Star Wars by then and wanted to wrap the Saga up and maybe squeezed to much in and it took some of the greatness away who knows?