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Blu-Ray Attacks Microsoft, Microsoft Bites Back — Page 2
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<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>
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"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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BluRay is going to win this battle. I was a bit worried for a while that an inferior format like HD-DVD would pull through, but recent announcements by studios and press releases from MS/Intel that are more about FUD than real information have me feeling a lot better. Paramount, who until recently was a staunch HD-DVD supporter, just announced they'll be supporting BluRay as well. Warner Bros. and Universal--the only big guns who are still maintaining support for HD-DVD only--were waiting for Paramount's announcement and are expected to follow suit. The huge catalogs of exclusive content these big three studios were expected to deliver to HD-DVD have evaporated. Content is no longer an issue in this format war. MS is blathering about their support for HD-DVD, yet their XB360 won't even feature an HD-DVD drive.
There are a lot of myths regarding HD-DVD and BluRay.
1. Backwards compatibility
HD-DVD and BluRay are both backwards-compatible. There's nothing magical about HD-DVD's support of the current DVD format. Manufacturers will slap a red laser and MPEG-2 decoder into HD-DVD and BluRay decks, letting them play all your current DVDs. HD-DVD's "hybrid" approach isn't genius. They're literally gluing two discs together and creating two-sided discs. The hybrid capability BluRay has in development is a true single-sided, multi-layer hybrid solution.
2. Launch dates
People keep saying HD-DVD will hit the market first. The HD-DVD launch has been pushed back to 2006 because they're still hammering out specs, just like BluRay. The idea that BluRay has a half-finished product and HD-DVD is ready to leave the gate is incorrect. They'll both hit the market around the same time.
3. Studio support
As I mentioned above, it now looks like every major studio will be supporting BluRay. When Warner Bros., the biggest studio supporting HD-DVD and a holder of various patents guaranteeing a lot of revenue if HD-DVD is successful, decides they need to support BluRay, it should tell you how much faith they have in the format.
4. Storage capacity
The numbers being compared are misleading. The 30GB HD-DVD capacity is based on two layers. It's 15GB per layer. BluRay is 25GB per layer. With one layer, BluRay has almost the same capacity as HD-DVD dual layer discs. 25GB is enough for about 2.5 hours of HD content with the codecs being used in HD-DVD and BluRay. I'm betting manufacturers will have dual layer BluRay capability working in time for launch.
5. Manufacturing costs
The cost difference between manufacturing HD-DVDs and BluRay discs is nowhere near as large as HD-DVD supporters claim. The initial estimates were enough to concern studios at first, but with pretty much every studio changing their minds and supporting BluRay, it's obvious they feel the cost savings offered by HD-DVD aren't enough to justify supporting only that format.
There are other issues. Look at the hardware support for HD-DVD. They have three manufacturers in their camp: NEC, Toshiba, and Sanyo. You think they'll be able to pump out enough quality product to keep up with the likes of Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony, Philips, etc.? Most American consumers couldn't even tell you who NEC is because they've never been a huge retail brand here. Their last big launch in the US was the TurboGrafx-16. Toshiba's DVD players over the last several years have been consistently some of the worst available. Sanyo? Please.
I'm grateful for the existence of HD-DVD simply because they forced Sony and their BluRay association partners to go beyond mere 720p/1080i with MPEG-2 compression and Dolby Digital 5.1. We now have a BluRay spec capable of full 1080p output encoded with the most advanced codecs available and some truly outstanding hi-res multichannel audio. We owe that to HD-DVD.
However, BluRay has now incorporated everything that was great about HD-DVD while maintaining the superiority they initially offered (more storage capacity, higher data transfer rates, and better hardware support from manufacturers who know what they're doing). BluRay is now equal to HD-DVD in many respects and superior to HD-DVD on several important points. There's nothing HD-DVD offers that BluRay can't meet or beat except for disc production costs, and the studios seem to have made their decision regarding that issue.
Given the huge marketing effort it will take to launch HD-DVD and fight off BluRay's supporting manufacturers, it's possible NEC and Toshiba will recognize they don't have the clout or funds to maintain such a campaign. They could very well fold under the pressure unless they get a lot of financial assistance from Warner since they hold patents associated with HD-DVD.
This is going to be much less than a format war. More like a skirmish if you ask me.
MTFBWY…A
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HD-DVD is no closer to market than BluRay. If they were, the launch wouldn't have been pushed back to 2006.
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Originally posted by: zion
I thought I remember hearing the deadline being 2006, not 2005. But that was back in 2000 or so when I worked for Circuit City and digital TVs were just starting to gain popularity.
IT WAS 2006, BUT NOW THE GOVERNMENT HAS PUSHED IT BACK TO 2008.
"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide
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What I would like to see is a unified standard. There were some talks between the two groups, but they didn't produce anything. But hopefully something will come up and have one unified standard that has the best of both worlds. But I guess I won't be expecting them to actually happen.
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Originally posted by: Jay
Single-sided BluRay players have been on sale in Japan for years.
Why are all the cool gadgets always avalable in Japan first?
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My Projects:
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Originally posted by: Number20
The problem with blu-ray is that they have big claims of superiority, such as data storage, but the reality is that they can't actually reach these statements.
the other problem with Blu-Ray is that it's a Sony format. building a Blu-Ray drive into PS3 was a smart business decision ('cause it'll put Blu-Ray players in a lot of homes), but Blu-Ray video still has to follow in the footsteps of a long tradition of Sony creating media formats, shunning the cooperation of other tech developers, either neglecting one feature that consumers end up really clamoring for or simply marketing the product poorly, and losing in spectacular fashion. BetaMax, MiniDisc/ATRAC, HiFD, Memory Stick... all Sony, all marketing failures.
even in 2005, i can't imagine why anyone but the rich & famous would want to buy Sony UMD movies, which can only be played on PSPs. like, you could buy a DVD movie and play it on televisions, portables, desktop & laptop computers, there's prolly a toaster with a built-in DVD player coming soon. or you could spend $20-$30 on a UMD movie, and it plays on PSP... and that's all??? i dunno. seems like yet another incomprehensible marketing strategy on Sony's part.
right now, on paper, yes, Blu-Ray video seems like it should be superior to HD-DVD, even though it seems as if its only real distinguishing feature is their claim of higher storage capacity. but the need for a totally new manufacturing process, and perhaps Sony charging third parties an arm & a leg for the privelege of marketing their own Blu-Ray players & discs, could mean that the platform will just be overall more expensive than HD-DVD and the video quality may not be noticeably better than HD-DVD. it might be better, it might not be better, it depends very much on the quality/efficiency of the encoders that they use... but it's really too early to say, without a side-by-side comparison of the same titles in both formats, isn't it? and then, going by Sony's history, there's a pretty good chance that the format will just have some tragic flaw that we don't know about yet and people will end up thinking "uh, why would i want to buy that? it's so expensive and it's lacking a convenient feature that the other format has."
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Originally posted by: 3RA1N1ACQuote
Originally posted by: Number20going by Sony's history, there's a pretty good chance that the format will just have some tragic flaw that we don't know about yet and people will end up thinking "uh, why would i want to buy that? it's so expensive and it's lacking a convenient feature that the other format has."
What is this coming from? Example?
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the platform will just be overall more expensive than HD-DVD and the video quality may not be noticeably better than HD-DVD. it might be better, it might not be better, it depends very much on the quality/efficiency of the encoders that they use... but it's really too early to say, without a side-by-side comparison of the same titles in both formats, isn't it?
According to the specs, both formats will use the same MPEG4 codec, so it really comes down to which one can handle the higher bitrate, which is blu-ray.
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Originally posted by: segaflipWhat is this coming from? Example?
i should've spent a minute looking up a more appropriate word than "tragic."
what i meant was more along the lines of "serious annoyance."
Betamax example: launched with a one-hour-per-tape recording time.
MiniDisc example: proprietary codec, one-way digital connection between MD and PC (you can make a digital copy of MD data onto a PC, but not the other way around. want to compress music to MD's ATRAC from a different format and digitally transfer to MD?... sorry, real-time analog input only)
HiFD example: 1st version recalled due to widespread defects, 2nd version incompatible with 1st version.
Memory Stick example: um... nothin' wrong with this one (and its many variations), i guess. just expensive. and proprietary. as usual. now with copyright protection.
UMD movie example (just for the sake of repeating myself, hehe): it only plays on one portable device, and on nothing else?
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http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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Originally posted by: zion
According to the specs, both formats will use the same MPEG4 codec, so it really comes down to which one can handle the higher bitrate, which is blu-ray.
okay, yeah. assuming the two formats are released with support for the same codecs, support for the same features of those codecs, the compression software's similar enough... then Blu-Ray should have better video quality. i can't avoid the suspicion, though, that Sony might still get something wrong, either with the product itself or with the marketing strategy. i'd guess their best chance of success is in the possibility that Toshiba surrenders at the last hour and simply cancels the "format war."
or maybe Sony loses in the American market but wins in the European market, as Europe is pretty far behind Japan & the U.S. on the HDTV hardware front so they're not exactly marching out in the streets & calling for high-definition content yet. while in the U.S. there's a considerable number of people who want high-def discs as soon as possible. *shrugs*
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6. BluRay is not a Sony format.
The current BluRay spec has been developed in conjunction with just about every other major consumer electronics manufacturer in the world. The initial technology was Sony's, yes, but the BluRay association as a whole has jointly developed the current spec and will share in its manufacture and distribution. There will be no "licensing" of the technology to other manufacturers. Sony learned their lesson with Betamax.
BluRay is an intelligently conceived technology that has the support of the biggest names out there. It is not a "Sony technology".
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[Backstroke of the West DVD]
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Originally posted by: Jay
There will be no "licensing" of the technology to other manufacturers.
???
http://www.blu-raydisc.info/licensee_list/licensee_list.htm
whether blu-ray is a sony format... that's nearly a matter of semantics? granted, it isn't purely a product of sony's research & development, philips is heavily involved in the development too, and they've allowed others to take what basically amounts to advisory roles, but the development and marketing of the blu-ray video format is primarily driven and led by sony. if i were to say "it's a sony/philips format," would that be more diplomatic?
i'd suggest that licensing is not only a factor but possibly the main factor. they're not just pushing blu-ray in the interest of scientific progress, just 'cause it's such a clearly superior technology, but because sony and philips want to receive a much better portion of the licensing fees than they would have gotten if they'd collaborated with toshiba on hd-dvd.
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Still, this is one reason why BluRay shouldn't be compared to failed Sony formats such as Betamax. One of the reasons Betamax failed was because Sony kept the technology to themselves. JVC, on the other hand, licensed VHS to everybody. Plenty of hardware competition forcing better products and better prices.
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