I think TestingOutTheTest is referring to something I said, like, a month ago about TRoS and ESB’s reveals. And it’s a fair enough point for Palpatine’s return in a sense, you can look back at RotS, TFA, and TLJ after the fact and read foreshadowing into them even when it was never there. But foreshadowing alone isn’t really enough.
I wouldn’t even really call the example of Ben’s Hut scene foreshadowing, it’s more that it’s a detail which makes more sense after the twist than it did before. Stuff like that sells a twist. Stuff that either makes more sense, or only makes sense after a twist. Stuff that takes on a new, deeper meaning after the twist. Stuff that you look back on and see the twist in.
Not to use the some of the same examples again, but (avoiding spoilers for movies people haven’t seen…) Oh Dae-Su’s captivity doesn’t make a whole lot of sense… until it does. The time dilation aspect of Planet of the Apes isn’t all that relevant… until it is. Bruce Willis’s wife’s behavior seems like a detour from the main focus of the story… but it’s not. Adam being in Nerv’s basement is a blatant contradiction of the facts we know… because that’s not really what’s going on.
Those are the kinds of clues you need leading up to a twist. Foreshadowing is great and all, especially on rewatch once you know the twist, or to flex if you’re an author who’s sold a convincing twist. But it doesn’t actually sell the twist.
I listed the clues already, such as Palpatine’s influence on Snoke’s personality and the guards’ color scheme, for example. It screams, “Palpatine has some sort of influence!” You’d think those’re rehashes of the OT (and they still are to this day), but they make more scene with Palpatine back.
A reveal doesn’t have to be a plot twist. (Yeah, I changed my mind about that Palps’ return is a plot twist, but… yeah.)
Bad twists fail to sell themselves to an audience when they aren’t really rooted in what’s come before. They’re just random new information which changes nothing (which is ironic). Like in Now You See Me.
The surprise of Palps’ return works because he’s been out there all this time, pulling the strings and trying so hard to take over the galaxy for the past thirty years. It puts a halt to TLJ’s theme of hope. And now, in the climax of the whole saga, the heroes are going to have to fight the man who started everything.
They could have had every single screen in TFA and TLJ flash “Palpatine will return in Episode 9” in Aurebesh, I doubt it would help sell the reveal to many people. Because how does Palpatine returning and being Rey’s grandfather really have anything to do with the story of TFA and TLJ?
By that logic, what does Thanos taking the Infinity Gauntlet and saying, “Fine, I’ll do it myself,” have anything to do with Age of Ultron? Same with other set-ups in the MCU?
Nothing about TRoS really flows forward from TLJ. Rey ends TLJ moving on from placing so much importance on her family to her and the movie placing tons and tons of importance on her family in TRoS. TLJ ends setting up Kylo Ren as the Supreme Leader who’s going to be in conflict with Hux, but to say Kylo Ren is playing second fiddle in TRoS, that alone is a pretty charitable interpretation when he’s even being upstaged by Pryde. The conflict with Hux is there, but it’s inconsequential and I wholeheartedly believe it’s only there to dodge criticism. If it weren’t for “I want Kylo Ren to lose” becoming a meme, I think people would forget Hux was even in this movie.
Every loose thread from TLJ is dropped and ignored in TRoS for an entirely new story, and like I said, the reason a lot of people don’t buy Palpatine’s role in TRoS is because it’s not a twist, it’s a premise for an entirely new story which tries to sell itself as the completion of an old one.
Loose threads? I can agree with “See you around, kid,” but Luke inspiring hope does get a payoff - hence why the Resistance has more members, and why the galaxy immediately follows Lando to Exegol. I don’t remember any other loose threads in TLJ.
I can also agree with Hux’s storyline feeling anti-climactic. Regarding Rey’s family, even if you ignore the reveal that her parents hid her for her safety, she doesn’t place importance onto Palps being her grandfather - as I’ve told you already, she’s scared of that because of what it means to her.