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Post #1429605

Author
RogueLeader
Parent topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1429605/action/topic#1429605
Date created
14-May-2021, 12:05 PM

Don’t won’t to derail any other discussion people want to have, but I wanted to try and logic through the possession stuff. Ironically it is the logic of my own earlier suggestions, but I want to make sure it all makes sense. Which, even if it doesn’t 100% make sense, I guess it still would be on par with the theatrical film.

In regards to this edit, since Palpatine tells Kylo at the beginning that if he kills him that his spirit will pass into Kylo, why wouldn’t Kylo tell Rey that if she tries to kill Palpatine, that he would possess her? Since Palpatine told him that at the beginning, and Kylo knows Rey wants to kill Palpatine, he could use that info to make her believe that only through the power of their Dyad can they truly defeat him. I don’t think this is necessarily a plot hole, but I think it would help strengthen this idea if there is a strong reason why Kylo wouldn’t try this.

I guess it wouldn’t necessarily make a difference though. Even if he told her, she goes to Exegol thinking she will be able to defeat him another way without Kylo. She only acts like she might go through with it once she realizes “killing” him might be the only way to save her friends. Which I guess brings us back to a similar place as the theatrical film, sort of defeating the purpose of moving the “spirit” line to the beginning in the first place.

Originally, the earlier placement of the spirit line was meant to accomplish 3 things:

  1. It gave the audience a better idea of how Palpatine survived when he is first introduced. (Clones + spirit transfer)
  2. It gave Kylo a reason why he simply couldn’t kill Palpatine and take the fleet then and there.
  3. It made it so Palpatine didn’t villain-splain his plan to Rey later in the film. Plus, it creates dramatic irony for the audience, since we would know what would really happen if Rey kills him.

Perhaps that line could be moved back to the end, but the line could be changed to just, “Kill me, and my power will pass into you… You will be Empress, we will be one.”

This would give the line some ambiguity still, something of Palpatine will pass into Rey. Palpatine wants Rey to believe that she will get his power. But the “We will be one” line provides some ambiguity, and makes us (and Rey) wonder how much of Palpatine will still persist if she commits to the act. Also, it removes the “as all the Sith live in me” aspect, which makes things unnecessarily complicated. Let it just be Palpatine.

And for earlier in the film with Kylo, the original lines went like this-

Kylo: You’ll die first.

Palpatine: I have died before. The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

It currently is this-

Palpatine: I have died before. Kill me and my spirit will pass into you, as all the Sith live in me.

Instead, it could go something like this-

Palpatine: Kill me. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

Palpatine sort of did this already, but Palpatine straight up telling Kylo to kill him is more explicitly reverse psychology. Kylo probably wasn’t expecting that response, and those two lines paired together implies that if he kills him, that some unnatural things might happen. This comes off as more of a threat than him simply saying “I have died before”. Although he is still referring to spirit transfer, like my original suggestion, it isn’t explicitly said. This allows Kylo to believe killing him directly would be a bad idea, but still leave him in the dark as to exactly why.

I also think between Palpatine telling him to become what Vader couldn’t, and that he will rule all the galaxy as the new Emperor, it would be interesting if he were to tell Kylo “My spirit is weak”. Although he is lying to Kylo (or maybe he isn’t?), this gives Kylo a reason why Palpatine is just offering his Empire to Kylo (which he should be extremely suspicious about). He’s basically saying he’s dying, and he wants Kylo to be his successor. I also think it would be helpful to mention the word spirit somewhere, so we know his spirit does play a role in this, and this isn’t just a Palpatine clone or a reanimated corpse. Palpatine’s spirit is in that body.
Later in the film he also says “They don’t have long”, so you could even throw in “I don’t have long” somewhere potentially. Perhaps after, “The Final Order will soon be ready.” These two lines might help give the audience the idea that Palpatine is dying in a way that clone bodies can no longer help him.

While Kylo should still know something is up, I think it helps if Palpatine at least gives Kylo some semblance of a motivation to make him doubt what exactly Palpatine’s plan is. And since the word “spirit” was mentioned earlier in Kylo’s scene, when Palpatine later says “We will be one” we still may achieve that dramatic irony in knowing that it likely means Palpatine’s spirit will pass into Rey, not just his “powers”.

I think this might be a way to give the audience enough information to understand that Palpatine’s spirit will transfer into the one that kills him, but without neither Kylo nor Rey ever being explicitly told that. So, Kylo can’t warn Rey, because he doesn’t know, and Rey is left to believe she will merely inherit Palpatine’s power.

But if someone can think of a good reason Kylo wouldn’t tell Rey, then I guess we could leave everything as-is.

Would love to get some thoughts.