The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 482

I feel like the neck is a bit too low into the body, and the darkest parts of the head do not match the darkest parts of the robe. But otherwise it looks great!

Jar Jar Bricks said:

jonh said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mZ7QMDDBjVfKj_IdVa73EVGUkNiO10aA/view?usp=sharing
I think the shoot has improved …
What is your opinion?

Fantastic! The only thing that ever bothered me about the original was how it clearly looked taken straight out of ROTS, but this is a huge improvement.

1000%. Big improvement to something already perfect. Let me know when you have the ‘phantom four’ with purple saber how you’re happy with it.

jonh said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mZ7QMDDBjVfKj_IdVa73EVGUkNiO10aA/view?usp=sharing
I think the shoot has improved …
What is your opinion?

Jonh strikes again! Very nice, very nice.

jonh said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mZ7QMDDBjVfKj_IdVa73EVGUkNiO10aA/view?usp=sharing
I think the shoot has improved …
What is your opinion?

Dude, That little detail of Anakin’s hair blowing in the wind is a great touch. It looks a little odd on a few frames midway though but it’s great. I definitely like the eyes closed version now. Also, I feel the lightning should be striking out and up i.e. coming from Rey rather than striking down from the top left. Other than that great work as ever!

Dat_SW_Guy said:

Heres a test VFX shot of Rey shooting out Force Lightning instead of the Force Push to signify her instability, the compression makes it look slightly weird but it’s okay: https://streamable.com/cqtffo

That looks good, I think the displacement is just a little too high for such a brief shot, could be interesting to show Finn’s skull for less than a second instead of it hitting him like one of those other concepts

On the topic of emphasizing Rey’s inner conflict, there’s something in particular about the finale that’s been nagging at me. (I mean, heck, there’s way more than one thing, but…)

You know the part where Sheev opens the skylight and is like “Kill me and you can save your friends”? Ignoring the fact that that makes absolutely no logical sense (why would Rey be able to control Palpatine ('s fleet) if she allows Palpatine to take over control of her?), it also completely muddles any sort of theme the film may be trying to explore.

• Tapping into Rey’s personal darkness - she wouldn’t be killing Palps for selfish or evil reasons, she’d be killing him to save her friends, despite the cost to herself. That’s, like, prime Jedi material, right there. At that point, for those reasons, it’s selfish if she doesn’t immediately decapitate him.
• “The Dark Side is in Rey’s blood because Sheev DNA” - What does saving Rey’s friends have to do with a Sith family legacy?
• “Avenging her parents” - Her parents are mentioned in, like, two throwaway lines in this whole finale, so they clearly don’t matter for anything.

Seriously, I feel like my brain is melting whenever I think about this. Is saving her friends a bad thing all of a sudden? What exactly were the filmmakers trying to convey with this curveball?

So, to that end - and given our angle in Ascendant of highlighting Rey’s leanings into the Dark Side - I think the finale could make…not “sense,” but at least “more sense,” if we could replace some of the dialogue to something like:

“They don’t have long. No one is coming to save them, and you are the one who led them here. Your new family [will die, and you don’t] have the power to save them.”
“[The Light is weak. Darkness will rise.] Strike me down, take the thrones. [Do it!]”

Does anyone have any suggestions of Palpatine lines to that effect that could be used instead? Otherwise, maybe even just remove Palp’s voiceover on that section entirely, and just have Rey “see” her friends dying in silent contemplation? At least that would emphasize everyone’s hopelessness, rather than hinting at a way to save them.

Sherlock I completely agree with your assessment in regards to the logic behind it all, but specifically more about the transfer crap for me. Fortunately, I think … it isn’t explained in the movie about “Strike me down with hate and that allows me to transfer” as that is explained outside of the movie (Please correct me if I am wrong). By the movie’s logic, Palpy can transfer … mostly by being struck down by someone (though he somehow transfer from DSII … just don’t think too hard on it.)

Please remind me, but the whole exegol scene with Rey there doesn’t have Palp mention/explaining/talking about the transfer to Rey? If it isn’t mentioned at all at that point, then for Rey’s knowledge and understanding, Palp is saying “You strike me down by this ritual, then you get to have the throne … AKA you kill the boss you take over …” and not “You strike me down by this ritual, I/we/sith will utterly possess you and you get the throne as MeWeSith Lady” then Rey would have a reason to do it … since “I would be the boss, I can call off the destroyers.” That would make sense for her to decide/reason on why to do it, and we the audience are like “oh no, it’s a trap!”

But yeah, regardless, the whole Sith Transfer thing is still goofy but as long as it never touches on the idea of “strike with hatred allows the transfer” in this movie and she doesn’t know it, then it’s at least tolerable. Since Rey is CLEARLY not doing it out of hate at all and why would she do it if she loses herself and palpy takes over?

Keep it somewhat simple.

Yeah, I think in the story of Ascendant, Kylo has a clearer idea of the spirit transfer angle than Rey. In the theatrical, yeah, Rey should say, “But you’ll just overwrite me.” Here she may plausibly believe that stepping onto the dreaded Sith throne may be the only way to take control.

It’s not great, but I think we’re already a good step in a better direction from the theatrical, thanks to RogueLeader.

In the original script at least, Palpatine tells her: “You want to kill me? That is what I want. Kill me and my spirit will pass into you, as all the Sith live in me… You will be Empress… We will be one.” And then later: “Strike me down. Take the throne. Reign over a new Empire… and the fleet will be yours. Only you have the power to save [your friends].”

Which…definitely sounds like he’s going to possess her. And once he does, she’ll have command over the fleet. And even if Palpy doesn’t outright control her, why would any of the Sith fleet/army obey her commands? “Yeah, Palpatine is totally sharing my body right now. Definitely. You can trust me, right? Anyway, ‘Palpatine’ says that we’re aborting the mission, okie doke? Let’s shut it down!” So that’s dumb.

And even though he literally never says that he has to be killed “in anger” for the possession to take hold (he mentions that “she wants to kill him,” and that “killing him will allow the transfer,” but there’s no direct correlation between those two statements), I’m begrudgingly okay with hand-waving that aspect. But again, in regards to saving her friends, none of this has any relevance to the themes of the film. This is when those themes are supposed to come to their conclusion; but instead of talking about Rey’s anger, or her heritage, or anything like that, J.J. and Chris are just like, “Meh, you better kill him Rey, or else all of your friends are gonna die,” as they flap their hands about. How has the film built towards this at all? What is the film trying to say by forcing this (external) conflict on Rey? How is this final dilemma (of the entire Star Wars saga) in any way satisfying?

I agree, although stepping into the throne has been built to as a dreaded reality.

“Oh no, how could I ever do that?”

“Oh shit, dat’s how.”

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

But again, in regards to saving her friends, none of this has any relevance to the themes of the film. This is when those themes are supposed to come to their conclusion; but instead of talking about Rey’s anger, or her heritage, or anything like that, J.J. and Chris are just like, “Meh, you better kill him Rey, or else all of your friends are gonna die.”

I would say one of the themes of the film is confronting fear. In this moment, Rey is presented with two options: kill Palpatine to possibly save her friends, or deny him and risk losing her friends. I would say that thematically it does make sense. It’s about the fear of loss, and learning to let others have some control, because the civilian fleet shows up to save the day without Rey’s help.

Isn’t that backwards though? Because if the thing she fears is losing her friends, wouldn’t her courage fail her by killing Palpatine to save them? (And again, I have no idea if the filmmakers even consider that a good or a bad decision from a morality standpoint, because it’s all so nonsensical and poorly laid out.) She’s still running from her fears, until a big strong man comes to save her. Our hero, ladies and gentlemen.

But it’s all a moot point, because Rey was never afraid of losing her friends:

REY: I saw myself on the dark throne. I won’t let it happen. I’m never leaving this place. I’m doing what you did.

LUKE: I was wrong. It was fear that kept me here. What are you most afraid of?

REY: Myself.

LUKE: Because you’re a Palpatine.

The film (I think) is trying to be about Rey’s fear of her own inner darkness. Or fear of her chromosomes, whatever. But she’s never scared of losing her friends. She even abandons them at like three different occasions in the movie without a second thought. I don’t buy it.

If you take her inner struggles throughout the film, and then throw all of that away for a last minute, “Do this, or your friends die,” you undermine and invalidate her entire character arc for the rest of the film. She should be tempted onto the Sith Throne, not blackmailed into it.

EDIT:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

It’s about the fear of loss, and learning to let others have some control, because the civilian fleet does show up to save the day without Rey’s help.

When does the film explore that in any way? And what does the Civilian Fleet have to do with Rey’s arc? “Letting others have some control,” that was Poe’s arc in TLJ.

And even if the film was about “letting others have some control,” do we really want that other person to be Emperor “Darth Sidious” Sheev Palpatine, the conglomeration of all Sith past and present, and Lord of all Evil?? Just as long as he doesn’t invade Poland, amiright?

It makes sense, if you don’t think about it. - the principal of TROS