logo Sign In

Fahrenheit 9/11 — Page 5

Author
Time
Post link
Michael Moore Lying Example 1:
The statement:
"I am an Independent," the filmmaker told reporters. "I'm not a member of the Democratic party."

The Truth:
However, documents refuting this have arisen. Michael Moore is registered as a Democrat in the state of New York AND is also registered to vote in Michigan (which does not give applicants the option of selecting a party affiliation, doesn't say he is or isn't a democrat).

The Proof:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html


Lying Example(s) 2:
The Statement(s):
Several made through his new movie Fahrenheit 9/11. Listed in proof.

The Truth:
See proof.

The Proof:
The Truth About 'Fahrenheit 9/11'


It is a great importance to set a resolution, not to be shaken, never to tell an untruth. There is no vice so mean, so pitiful, so contemptible and he who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and third time, till at length it becomes habitual, he tells lies without attending to it, and truths without the world's believing him. This falsehood of the tongue leads to that of the heart, and in time depraves all it's good dispositions.
--Thomas Jefferson--

Is that a decent start?? Wish you'd asked for Al Gore. There's a guy, that knows how to lie.
Author
Time
Post link
Hey guys I invented the internet.
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: starkiller
Michael Moore Lying Example 1:
The statement:
"I am an Independent," the filmmaker told reporters. "I'm not a member of the Democratic party."

The Truth:
However, documents refuting this have arisen. Michael Moore is registered as a Democrat in the state of New York AND is also registered to vote in Michigan (which does not give applicants the option of selecting a party affiliation, doesn't say he is or isn't a democrat).

The Proof:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html


Lying Example(s) 2:
The Statement(s):
Several made through his new movie Fahrenheit 9/11. Listed in proof.

The Truth:
See proof.

The Proof:
The Truth About 'Fahrenheit 9/11'


It is a great importance to set a resolution, not to be shaken, never to tell an untruth. There is no vice so mean, so pitiful, so contemptible and he who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and third time, till at length it becomes habitual, he tells lies without attending to it, and truths without the world's believing him. This falsehood of the tongue leads to that of the heart, and in time depraves all it's good dispositions.
--Thomas Jefferson--

Is that a decent start?? Wish you'd asked for Al Gore. There's a guy, that knows how to lie.


Be careful who you quote as "the truth." Fox News is hardly as "fair and balanced" as you would like to believe. As for the whole voting registration system, what kind of idiotic system allows you to register your affiliation with a particular party? Kind of takes the anonymity out of the whole democratic process, doesn't it?

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

Author
Time
Post link
I have to agree, the thing about "being independent" is stupid, he's really not. Nor is O'Reilly, who declared being independent, and is a registered republican. I don't agree with Moore with that, and with his view in abortion (which I belive is THE ultimate crime/sin, the worse thing you could do, far worse then suicide).

But I asked Jimbo to tell him his sources because I knew what the answers would be: anti-moore web sites, fox news, books by conservatives and republicans, I mean, what do you think those sources are going to say? And what do you define by being truth or not? How do you know about the world, about the "terrorist threat", about the wars, how do you know who your president is? TV. The media. Owned by rich people. And those rich people are also smart people, who want to preserve their interests and investments. Have you ever thought about this? About the media brain-washing you guys?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
Author
Time
Post link
1. Sooo, you don't believe that Fox is telling the truth when it draws its information the 9/11 Comission or Richard Clarke??
Or are you just saying that citing FoxNews was a bad idea, and that getting the same article from another source would lend more creedance to it?

2. Hey, its New York state. They elected Hilary.
Besides, there is a check box there for "I do not wish to enroll in a party". Its the last entry.
a. That seems more anonymous.
b. Being a Democrat is not independent. "I do not wish to enroll in a party" sounds independent.
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: starkiller
1. Sooo, you don't believe that Fox is telling the truth when it draws its information the 9/11 Comission or Richard Clarke??
Or are you just saying that citing FoxNews was a bad idea, and that getting the same article from another source would lend more creedance to it?

2. Hey, its New York state. They elected Hilary.
Besides, there is a check box there for "I do not wish to enroll in a party". Its the last entry.
a. That seems more anonymous.
b. Being a Democrat is not independent. "I do not wish to enroll in a party" sounds independent.


1- Ok, say whatever you want, but I don't trust this 9/11 comission as much as I trust thw Warren Comission (?) about JFK assassination.

2- I know! I was agreeing with you! Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: ricarleite
About the media brain-washing you guys?
Media brain-washing works both to the right and to the left.

May I remind all of you (or inform as it MAY be the case for ricarleite. I don't know if the story would have gotten to you in Brazil), about the media blitz after the 9/11 Commission made its declaration concerning Iraq.

The Commission declared that they found no link between Iraq and 9/11.
A huge chunk of the mainstream media (ABC, NBC, CBS, New York Times, Washington Post) started reporting that the Commission found no link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda.
Big difference.
No Evidence Connecting Iraq to Al Qaeda

And this is but one example.
Author
Time
Post link
No, I did not know about that.

And yes, it works both ways. A far left example would be the chinese dictatorial government, USSR back in Stalin days...

That's why I don't consider myself a left wing. I'm waaay to the left to be a liberal. I'm more like a pseudo-anarchist.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
Author
Time
Post link
Just to clarify...
When I brought up Hillary, I was directly responding to GundarkHunter. I didn't even see what you wrote until after I had posted.
Author
Time
Post link
k well i saw the movie last night...
and i absolutly loved it!!!

If you were a fan of Bowling for Columbine... you will enjoy this one just as much!
Many people say that moore is guilty of lying and manipulating interviews and this and that... however... he brings up SO MANY points in this movie that theres no possible way that everyone of them is a lie..... It's just impossible...
some sure... most could happen... but all.... impossible...
so there has to be some truth to what moore is saying...

When you see iraq soldiers telling the camera that they think the war is wrong and that they would rather be imprisoned than go back there... or even hearing a letter from a dead soldier who says Bush is a idiot for sending them there in the first place... and hopes he is not re-elected.... its pretty powerful...
Even if your not about the whole Moore theory... (ie. jimbo) give the movie a chance... i guarentee that you would at least appreciate it for the entertainment value the movie holds...

I would go into further details about some of my fave parts but i dont want to spoil it yet for those who havent seen it....
believe me when i say the movie is hilarious!!!
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
Post link
oh ya and starkiller Moore did kinda slam the FOX news channel in his movie...
maybe that could explain some of this backlash from them...
i dunno just saying..
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
k well i saw the movie last night...
and i absolutly loved it!!!

If you were a fan of Bowling for Columbine... you will enjoy this one just as much!
Many people say that moore is guilty of lying and manipulating interviews and this and that... however... he brings up SO MANY points in this movie that theres no possible way that everyone of them is a lie..... It's just impossible...
some sure... most could happen... but all.... impossible...
so there has to be some truth to what moore is saying...

When you see iraq soldiers telling the camera that they think the war is wrong and that they would rather be imprisoned than go back there... or even hearing a letter from a dead soldier who says Bush is a idiot for sending them there in the first place... and hopes he is not re-elected.... its pretty powerful...
Even if your not about the whole Moore theory... (ie. jimbo) give the movie a chance... i guarentee that you would at least appreciate it for the entertainment value the movie holds...

I would go into further details about some of my fave parts but i dont want to spoil it yet for those who havent seen it....
believe me when i say the movie is hilarious!!!


True very few points are lies. But the point is one lie ruins the whole credibility of his arguement.
Author
Time
Post link
but is he lying or just giving you his point of view???
i agree that the man edits certain things to prove his point but im not sure if very much of that is done in this film...

i mean most of the film is of actual news coverage or television footage...
i would love someone to post a REAL list of things which were taken out of context in the movie...
at least we could then decide for ourselves if he goes overboard with it or not...
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
Post link
Luke,
I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but here is one thing Moore did:

When he was stopping congressman/senators and asking them if they'd allow their own kids to Iraq, at least one of them said yes.
He kinda left that out, didn't he?

I can just hear...well, I go kind of brain-dead when Michael Moore speaks, so I've never really heard his voice, but I think I can just hear him saying:
So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view.
Author
Time
Post link
And, as Kenobi said after that, "You will find that many things depend on our point of view." Nothing Michael Moore, the 9/11 Commission, or any organisation on either the right or left should be taken as the gospel truth. I always take Moore's arguments with a grain of salt, as I do any strong point of view, because certain facts are always going to slip under the radar. Perhaps his reason for leaving the one senator who said he would send his children to Iraq out of the film was because it didn't follow the trend of statements from the rest, and as such would stick out like a sore thumb, leading people to believe that more than that one senator would support such a decision.


For the record, I consider myself to be a moderate conservative, and look on Fahrenheit 9/11 as a continuation of Moore's argument in Bowling for Columbine, which is that the United States has systematically developed a culture of fear, a position you will find that many moderate conservatives agree with.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
but is he lying or just giving you his point of view???
i agree that the man edits certain things to prove his point but im not sure if very much of that is done in this film...

i mean most of the film is of actual news coverage or television footage...
i would love someone to post a REAL list of things which were taken out of context in the movie...
at least we could then decide for ourselves if he goes overboard with it or not...


Most is his point of view. But there are scatered lies in the movie.
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: starkiller
Luke,
I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but here is one thing Moore did:

When he was stopping congressman/senators and asking them if they'd allow their own kids to Iraq, at least one of them said yes.
He kinda left that out, didn't he?

I can just hear...well, I go kind of brain-dead when Michael Moore speaks, so I've never really heard his voice, but I think I can just hear him saying:
So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view.


YUP!
i heard about that... and I read about that on the internet too!
another example of his editting...
the thing is before he started asking people he said that when he researched how many of them had their children enrolled he said he only found one!
so either this was the one... or it was another and he was wrong with his research...

i would probably see the movie again just for the humor in it...
you wouldnt believe how funny it really was....
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
Post link
From the Michael Moore website:

"Fahrenheit 9/11" beat the opening weekend of "Return of the Jedi."

And to people in Brazil reading this... thanks to the known bizarre incompetence of the local film distributors, the opening date over here changed from july 9th, to "soon". Yes, we've seen it happening before: Kill Bill was delayed at the last minute 6 times, and Woody Allen movies usually take 2 years to get here. Bowling for Columbine was originally shown at only one theater once, and re-released in about... 10 screens a few months after the 2003 oscars.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
Author
Time
Post link
wow...
thats all i can say is wow...

good for Michael Moore
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: ricarleite
From the Michael Moore website:

"Fahrenheit 9/11" beat the opening weekend of "Return of the Jedi."
I'll bet they didn't take inflation into account.

Author
Time
Post link
AHA!
very nice comeback indeed...
if inflation is counted that makes Star Wars the all time grossing film last time i checked...
hehe
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: GundarkHunter

For the record, I consider myself to be a moderate conservative, and look on Fahrenheit 9/11 as a continuation of Moore's argument in Bowling for Columbine, which is that the United States has systematically developed a culture of fear, a position you will find that many moderate conservatives agree with.


huh? culture of fear? I'm not sure I understand what you are talking about Gundark.

Author
Time
Post link
ahhh thats right Starkiller...
at least Star Wars beat out Titanic...
as good as a movie it is, me and my brother have had agruments about which is better...
so i would always bring up the point of inflation..
hehe
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
ahhh thats right Starkiller...
at least Star Wars beat out Titanic...
as good as a movie it is, me and my brother have had agruments about which is better...
so i would always bring up the point of inflation..
hehe
Yes indeed.
I cannot stand even the thought of Titanic.
My theory on what drove its success: Leo. Every high-school female probably went to see that movie about 5 times because of him. That fact alone drove the earnings higher than it likely deserved.

I will never see that movie.