It would seem to be a little bit more than that Sherlock. Apparently Poe says “nav signals down, but not for long” during the battle. That would need to be removed as well.
Poppa, could you send me just the “lately” line you adjusted? I feel it sounds great, but I guess I have a different pair of ears than everyone else.
Sure thing, here you go:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gBvp6UH1oMWW0O9z_rNUqOcMlZoFuE0L/view?usp=sharing
Thanks!
I think “not for long” is fine, Jar Jar. Poe says it while Pryde is resetting the nav tower, so it is down for “not long.” Finn hadn’t managed to destroy the signal, he just temporarily deactivated it. Doesn’t it power back up in a minute anyway? I honestly can’t remember.
That all kind of proves my point though that the battle is about the nav tower rather than the command ship. Finn only decides to blow up the ship because they’re resetting the nav tower - he doesn’t do it on a whim, he does it because it’s the only way to make sure that the only operational nav tower is destroyed.
Now, whether or not restarting your computer can fix it after it’s been blown up with grenades, that’s a different question entirely.
The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!
Eh, let’s do it, then, and lop off those four words. Sounds like the dynamics of the rest of the movie still make as much sense as before and I guarantee you I’d never notice that line was shortened if I watched the movie a million times.
The problem with “Tell me” is that you’re just taking a line from one scene and moving it to another. If you move it over, then Leia only says the word “No” in her wayfinder conversation with Rey. That’s just laughably bad imo.
I mean, just use it twice?
I’m pretty sure that would be easily detected by viewers. She doesn’t have too many lines and when you use the same exact delivery twice in a row it would be obvious.
Anyways, I’m also fairly certain the delivery of the line wouldn’t match. She sounds much too eager/excited when she says “tell me”.
Yeah I agree that it’d be too on the nose to snipe a line from TROS.
Just wanna thank Poppa again for the work on the “lately” line. Sounds perfect to me.
If ya’ll haven’t been able to tell already, I’ve given up on making the other two sound natural. But I’m convinced this one is flawless now.
I think the Leia line could be added there, but don’t think anything should be removed. In that moment where its focusing on Rey/her bag, it feels like theres no one really there on set with her when she looks up and talks. Would fill the emptiness for me,
Filmic Crossroads, Daniel L. Isidore
@Hal 9000 The scavenger clothing is part of who Rey is, why would we want to take that away?
Isn’t this the entire lifestyle Rey wanted to run away from and associated with her being worthless? 😕
The “scavenger clothing” thing was something I found on the cantina subreddit in defense of Rey wearing that style of clothing in TRoS.
Thinking about that dumbass Sith fleet.
Seems like the best way to smooth things over would’ve been to portray the FO as crippled, desperate, and scrappy in TLJ. (There could’ve been a dangerous power vacuum.) Then they stood to benefit from an actual fleet in TROS.
The FO was already comically overpowered in TLJ, so it makes little sense to suggest their resources would be increased by a factor of ten thousand. This is compounded by the idea that random monk people on a hidden wasteland built all this (tens of thousands of ships identical to Imperial design) by hand over 30 years out of crap smuggled in from their pockets.
In our retelling, it’s a stashed Imperial fleet, which really can’t be all that large. But there’s just about no way to remove the idea that the FO is beholden to it, or drastically reduce their power in TLJ.
The First Order was already crippled in TLJ after Holdo destroyed much of its fleet and ripped the Supremacy in half, and even then it’s inferable in TRoS that the First Order isn’t doing fine at all, Kylo Ren even wants to hog Palpatine’s Sith fleet for himself to make the First Order a true Empire (“With what I’ve seen on Exegol, the First Order is about to become a true Empire…”).
Right, and it’s something the crawl can help imply as well. Like has Ascendant has it now, you can say how flames of rebellion are burning across the galaxy. You also could say something about maintaining control is stretching their resources thin. It isn’t necessary, but it is a simple way to set up that the First Order needs more resources to stay in power.
EDIT: Just talking freely, but this is something that makes me wish JJ and Terrio had kept the Kuat sequence from the beginning of the Duel of the Fates script. Even though they just steal a destroyer in that sequence, if our heroes would’ve succeeded and had destroyed Kuat Drive Yards, it would’ve set up the First Order needing to compensate for that loss of resources. It also would’ve been a nice way to give the whole Canto Bight subplot a little more consequence (since our heroes would’ve been tearing down the war machine, essentially).
The Canto Bight storyline already does have consequence. Finn learns to care more about the actual cause itself after learning from Rose about the galaxy’s suffering and how the First Order treats others aside from their own men, and even then DJ turns them in to the First Order and leaks the Resistance’s plan and Holdo sacrifices herself because of this.
Alright, this is a SUPER subtle change but these are the kinds of things that will make Leia’s performance seem more realistic. I added in some light struggle effects when Leia collapses in the command room:
I forgot to lower the pitch on it but I think it works well enough as-is.
The Canto Bight storyline already does have consequence. Finn learns to care more about the actual cause itself after learning from Rose about the galaxy’s suffering and how the First Order treats others aside from their own men, and even then DJ turns them in to the First Order and leaks the Resistance’s plan and Holdo sacrifices herself because of this.
Hahaha, and here I was thinking I was actually on the same page as you for once!
EDIT: Not that I don’t agree with a lot of the things you say, like what you said above. It’s just funny.
Alright, this is a SUPER subtle change but these are the kinds of things that will make Leia’s performance seem more realistic. I added in some light struggle effects when Leia collapses in the command room:
I forgot to lower the pitch on it but I think it works well enough as-is.
Pretty subtle indeed, but I like it.
Coolio. What really put me off about that scene was that she wasn’t making any noises whatsoever. Obviously you can adjust the volume of the grunt as well as the pitch but here it is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ItBINdTjMGj2Eq4J5Nk24ZU11QrXGC_N/view?usp=sharing
I do have another line suggestion for the Leia/Rey wayfinder scene, but I’ll save it for later today from clogging up the feed. IMO, it’s significantly better than the last one.
@Hal 9000 The scavenger clothing is part of who Rey is, why would we want to take that away?
Isn’t this the entire lifestyle Rey wanted to run away from and associated with her being worthless? 😕
The “scavenger clothing” thing was something I found on the cantina subreddit in defense of Rey wearing that style of clothing in TRoS.
I’ll copy and paste a great relevant post from the cantina sub I saved awhile ago from u/ludwigritcher752:
In The Force Awakens (2015), we learn that, 30 years after the events of Return Of The Jedi (1983), Han and Leia are now separated due to what happened to between Luke and Ben (without knowing what Luke actually did). Han became the famous smuggler again and Leia went back to her political and military occupations, becoming a general. When their relationship was broken, both returned to what they were before they met for the first time.
Assuming that the heart of the Sequel Trilogy is the relationship/romance between Rey and Kylo, Han and Leia relationship in the Sequel Trilogy is almost a “foreshadowing” of what was going to happen between the heroine and the villain, specially between The Last Jedi (2017) and The Rise Of Skywalker (2019), or at least is a very good rhyme.
At the end of The Last Jedi (2017), after the development of a deeper and more intimate dynamic between Rey and Kylo, Rey closes the door on him. They broke up. The idea that, when a couple brakes up, they both return to what they were before their first met plays again with Kylo and Rey.
In The Rise Of Skywalker (2019), Kylo reconstructs his mask (symbolizing that he is now the same Kylo that we met at the beginning of The Force Awakens) and Rey has now a very similar outfit and haircut to her TFA look when we first met her in Jakku.
Even the idea of Ben coming home in The Rise Of Skywalker mirrors with Han’s own situation in The Force Awakens, when Maz says to him “Go home” and responds “Leia doesn’t want to see me”. Han and Kylo feelings are pretty much the same: they don’t believe that they will be accepted again. In the case of Kylo in The Rise Of Skywalker, this works with both Leia and Rey.
We all criticize how J.J. brought back Kylo’s mask and Rey’s three buns and how this contradicts what Rian established in The Last Jedi, but there’s nothing we can do about it and the best thing we can do is to trying to make sense out of it and making the Sequel Trilogy more consistent. Intentionally or not, I think this idea works pretty well.
And then a great comment by u/Pyramaniac:
Destroying the mask doesn’t contradict TLJ. Destroying the mask was out of frustration of being a knock off and failure to live up to Vader, not necessarily to let the past die. When Kylo said let the past die, he meant the Jedi, the Sith, the Empire of Old, etc. and make the future his way, a new order as per his vision.
He resurrected the mask because he felt confident that he could live up to Vader in turning Rey dark and killing Palpatine. He openly told Palpatine twice that he’d kill him after being subservient to Snoke, and actually succeeded in turning Rey to the dark side before Leia turned him back.
We openly see Kylo calmly and contently embracing Vader’s mask, as opposed to in TFA where he was anxious and insecure.
There are multiple ways to interpret it. In 7, he clung to the past. In 8, he was hell-bent on killing it, which Totally lost him the fight with Luke. In 9, he found balance with the past and was a new man. Did you see how he wiped the floor with Rey?
The mask was like working out a muscle. It was weak in 7, Got ripped in 8, and grew bigger in 9.
In 7, he tried to hide behind the mask as much as possible. In 9, he took it on and off as he pleased.
Rian Johnson himself even said breaking the mask didn’t represent letting the past die.
Nothing got contradicted at all, the mask just went in a direction that flew over everyone’s head.
These movies are clever as HELL. That’s why people don’t understand them and complain.
I actually included this post and comment in a cantina post I made where I collected all of the visual parallels, themes, etc. in TROS that helped me appreciate it (DM me if you want a link to the post), so I’ll include my comment I put below it:
I’ve always liked how Kylo’s journey with Vader’s legacy is symbolized through his mask. He worships Vader’s mask and makes his own, but then he forgets about Vader’s and destroys his own when Snoke tells her he hasn’t lived up to the legacy. However, after encountering Vader’s master a year later who tells him he can not only live up to Vader but surpass him, he feels confident in himself and brings out Vader’s mask to meditate on it again which inspires him to reforge his own, even stronger now with the Sith metal Sarassian iron used as the glue.
Edit: Forgot to include the post and not just the comment lol
"Destroying the mask doesn’t contradict TLJ. Destroying the mask was out of frustration of being a knock off and failure to live up to Vader, not necessarily to let the past die. When Kylo said let the past die, he meant the Jedi, the Sith, the Empire of Old, etc. and make the future his way, a new order as per his vision.
He resurrected the mask because he felt confident that he could live up to Vader in turning Rey dark and killing Palpatine. He openly told Palpatine twice that he’d kill him after being subservient to Snoke, and actually succeeded in turning Rey to the dark side before Leia turned him back."
Yup. This is pretty much what I’ve been saying for a while now. He was trying to finish what Vader started by letting the past die; get rid of everything except for a new order ruled entirely by himself and those he cares for.
What’s the issue with the “for just minutes” line?? I think it’s pretty straightforward:
The original plan is to disable the tower on the ground, when they reach Exegol Pride switches the signal to the command ship, so the plan changes to disable the tower on the ship, they succeed in disabling it, which leaves the ships stuck “for just minutes” (Poe reiterates this by saying “Nav signal’s down, but not for long!”), but Finn decides to take the whole ship down, which leaves the fleet stuck for good.
Of course there’s still the tower on the ground someone could fire back up, but at that point there’s a whole galaxy of ships attacking the Sith Fleet on their bright red weak point so it’s safe to say “they’re toast”. The whole fleet is destoryed, and the people who built it are crushed by rocks, so it’s all taken care of. The whole thing is kinda dumb, but if we removed all the dumb things in this movie we’d be left with nothing. In this case removing the line would turn the plan into a “we do this one thing and we win, period.” wich would massively lower the stakes of the Exegol assault. Instead the plan is to stall the ships from leaving Exegol long enough for Lando to rile up ‘the galaxy’ to come and take them down.
Disabling the navigation systems is not the main goal or the win condition, the plan was always to temporairly delay the Final Order. In fact their “victory” in disabling the tower happens during the ‘lowest point’ in the battle, since “no one is coming to help them”.
That doesn’t make sense though. You’re saying that the entire Sith Fleet is stuck for good because “Finn decides to take the whole [command] ship down.” When was it established that knocking out the command ship would cause a chain reaction and blow up the entire 10,000+ ship fleet? If knocking out the command ship will cripple the entire fleet, why do they even care about the nav tower? Why don’t they go after the command ship in the first place? It’s not like the nav tower is actually a shield generator that’s protecting the command ship, because they establish that “shields don’t work in Exegol’s atmosphere.” And how would that chain reaction work out logistically anyway? Is every ship connected directly to the command ship’s computer? And if so, what do they need the damn nav tower for??
The film makes it very clear that there’s only thing that unites the Sith Fleet - the nav tower signal. You take that out, the ships can’t leave the planet. The command ship isn’t even mentioned - not in the pre-mission briefing when they’re expositing all of this nonsense, not when they arrive on the planet - until it becomes the source of the navigation signal.
And if we ignore all of that and stick with the “command ship” theory anyway, that means we’re trying to do the entire battle sequence without setting up the plan, the goal, the plot, or the stakes. Hal, that’s not “subtlety”; that’s just sloppy writing. We can avoid all of this confusion if we just cut four words from the script. Four words!
It’s not a “theory”, I’m literally just laying out what happens in the movie. I’ve been mostly agreeing with everything you comment on this thread Sherlock, but I think you’re misunderstanding this whole plot point.
When was it established that knocking out the command ship would cause a chain reaction and blow up the entire 10,000+ ship fleet?
That’s not what I’m saying, the fleet is stuck there because they lose the nav signal from the command ship, the ships are blown up by hitting the underbelly cannons, it’s all set up in the pre-mission briefing. It’s not about the ship or the tower, it’s about the nav signal itself. They can’t leave without it.
“Nav signal’s down, but not for long!” is a direct call back to the fact the plan was always to temporairly disable their navigational systems, that’s why soon after Poe says “I don’t know R2, maybe nobody else is coming” and “we’ll have to take them ourselves”, because he thinks they’re losing their ‘window’ to attack the ships while they’re stuck. Otherwise, why not just take down the nav signal and leave until they get the resources to take down the ships? There would be no urgency at all. That’s why it’s important to set up that the ships will only be stuck there temporairly, taking out those four words makes everything worse, we’re left with lower stakes, no urgency, and an even more implausible setup.
Later on in the fight Poe still believes the fleet is only momentairly disabled, which is why he says “This is our last chance, we’ve got to hit those cannons now!”, he doesn’t know Finn is trying to take the command ship down, and so it’s not until he sees the ship blowing up that he realizes “The fleet is stuck here! They’re toast, come on!”. So the whole dynamic of the Exegol assault won’t make sense if you take out those four words.
I think this idea is next level. 😉
Concept: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/501825149469851659/822566875241906246/Flu_shot_concept.mp4
Edit: (Please do not add this)
Filmic Crossroads, Daniel L. Isidore
Concept: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/501825149469851659/822566875241906246/Flu_shot_concept.mp4
LMAO where is this from?
EDIT: So it’s from the LEGO game again. https://youtu.be/wgbt_g6WgXU?t=221 I feel like the line in this video I shared would actually work pretty well there.
EDIT: So it’s from the LEGO game again. https://youtu.be/wgbt_g6WgXU?t=221 I feel like the line in this video I shared would actually work pretty well there.
I don’t think he’d rat them out, espically if he’s trying to sabotage Kylo Ren
Although, I am really interested to track down all the audio dialogue used for this game.
Filmic Crossroads, Daniel L. Isidore
Fair enough. I agree 😉 I was thinking it might serve as a red herring for the audience that he’s not the spy.
And here’s the line I wanted considered for the Leia/Rey interaction:
So it would go:
Leia: No. Once we can co[mplete your training…]
Rey(interrupting): I don’t want to leave without your blessing but I will. I will. It’s what you would do.