@RogueLeader Because I’m clearing up misconceptions regarding TRoS and its so-called “effects” on TFA & TLJ and you guys seem to act as if you can’t infer things from TRoS and the prequels?
I’ve actually removed all the Rey Palpatine references/storyline. I feel it leaves a bit more mystery than shoe horning the family link to Palps.
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Why remove that line? The fact would remain anyway, and I don’t see what there’d be to gain.
You guys are proposing that the dyad forms because of Snoke bridging their minds, whereas in the actual films the dyad was formed because Rey and Kylo Ren were the respective grandchildren of two separate Force-sensitives. If you have both, it would muddle things.
Bruh what? Lmao. Where is this even remotely implied?
Sorry if I sound rude, just genuinely curious.
@RogueLeader Because I’m clearing up misconceptions regarding TRoS and its so-called “effects” on TFA & TLJ and you guys seem to act as if you can’t infer things from TRoS and the prequels?
Wasn’t directed at you, man.
Why remove that line? The fact would remain anyway, and I don’t see what there’d be to gain.
You guys are proposing that the dyad forms because of Snoke bridging their minds, whereas in the actual films the dyad was formed because Rey and Kylo Ren were the respective grandchildren of two separate Force-sensitives. If you have both, it would muddle things.
Bruh what? Lmao. Where is this even remotely implied?
Sorry if I sound rude, just genuinely curious.
I thought that was what I inferred from the thread?
Sorry, should have been more clear. You said:
whereas in the actual films the dyad was formed because Rey and Kylo Ren were the respective grandchildren of two separate Force-sensitives.
which is not the canon answer anywhere, mostly because it makes no sense whatsoever. Sure, maybe you can interpret that from the movie, but it isn’t suggested at all.
Sorry, should have been more clear. You said:
whereas in the actual films the dyad was formed because Rey and Kylo Ren were the respective grandchildren of two separate Force-sensitives.
which is not the canon answer anywhere, mostly because it makes no sense whatsoever. Sure, maybe you can interpret that from the movie, but it isn’t suggested at all.
Why else would Kylo point that out, more specifically right before he reveals he and Rey are part of a dyad?
He transitions to a different topic when he says, “What Palpatine doesn’t know.” Before that statement, he was talking about what Palpatine told him. After it, he moved on to a completely different topic besides her lineage, which is the dyad.
@RogueLeader Because I’m clearing up misconceptions regarding TRoS and its so-called “effects” on TFA & TLJ and you guys seem to act as if you can’t infer things from TRoS and the prequels?
Oh, please. We aren’t trying to deduce a canon answer, we’re thinking about what changes to make for alternate versions of the source material. As part of that we consider sources of confusion and how muddy that can get in the minds of moviegoers. I’m sure there are answers out there but I’m wondering how to smooth things over for a first timer who will never read any of the ancillary material.
Sorry, should have been more clear. You said:
whereas in the actual films the dyad was formed because Rey and Kylo Ren were the respective grandchildren of two separate Force-sensitives.
which is not the canon answer anywhere, mostly because it makes no sense whatsoever. Sure, maybe you can interpret that from the movie, but it isn’t suggested at all.
Why else would Kylo point that out, more specifically right before he reveals he and Rey are part of a dyad?
He’s pointing out, after revealing her lineage, that they have a right to the Sith Throne because they’re the offspring of Vader and the Emperor. The dyad exposition is just wedged between those lines.
Bridging their minds was a mistake on the villain’s behalf. Their yin and yang connection and shear force strength (which does include lineage and therefore midichlorian counts) formed a dyad. However, if their minds weren’t bridged, and the connection wasn’t made, a dyad wouldn’t have happened and they would have stayed unbonded. That’s how we have both these things together in the trilogy.
Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!
Oh, please. We aren’t trying to deduce a canon answer, we’re thinking about what changes to make for alternate versions of the source material.
Thank you, Hal.
I mean, the thing is that you aren’t even sharing canon answers, Testing. I posted a quote from a writer of TROS earlier that makes it clear the dyad has nothing to do with their respective lineages.
Bridging their minds was a mistake on the villain’s behalf, because their yin and yang connection and shear force strength formed a dyad. If their minds weren’t bridged, and the connection wasn’t made, a dyad wouldn’t have happened. That’s how we have both these things together in the trilogy.
This is the canon answer, from a certain point of view.
As Chris Terrio said, it’s up to us to figure out when the dyad truly started (which is extremely lazy btw). He said that the mind bridging either was what started it, or the dyad started before that and the mind bridging only accelerated it.
I like their minds being bridged and the “Dyad” concept. Screw it. It’s all cool to me.
Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!
Reading this thread is exhausting. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
This is where I’m at. Far too often this thread becomes muddled with discussion that belongs elsewhere on this forum.
They left the dyad extremely vague. Of that much there should be no debate. The implications for what it means for the other films, sure. But best discuss it elsewhere, unless you’re specifically brainstorming things like “we’ve become.”
This thread is probably 300 pages longer than it needs to be because of conversations like this that go in circles for days.
While on the surface it might seem like these conversations aren’t necessary, they arguably are. We are trying to edit this film to properly reflect the previous films, and it’s possible we can come to better conclusions for this particular film when also discussing possible changes to the previous two films.
I always have this specific edit in mind with what I’m responding with (i guess except for my most recent message, ironically, so sorry for that.)
Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!
While on the surface it might seem like these conversations aren’t necessary, they arguably are. We are trying to edit this film to properly reflect the previous films, and it’s possible we can come to better conclusions for this particular film when also discussing possible changes to the previous two films.
I’m sorry, there’s nothing necessary about people saying the same things over and over again 4 pages straight.
Okay, sure, maybe that behavior is unnecessary. It would be nice to minimize that. Although it’s sometimes hard to notice when an argument has effectively looped itself.
But you have to admit that when editing the final movie in a trilogy you can’t just act like the previous two don’t exist in the thread. There has to be a discussion somewhere about how the previous two films can possibly be adjusted so that you can make or not make certain changes to this edit in an intelligent way.
Hasn’t Hal even said he’s been conflicted with the implications between the two films, with Mind Bridge, Palps and Snoke and all? Of course trying to figure out whatever means to try to either rectify it, or go at it at every feasible angle takes time.
“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”
It gets repetitive but so would my own self-dialogue if I had ample time to mull over this, so it’s helpful to a point!
But yes, I think I’ve got it resolved, as I said a while back: no changes to TFA or TLJ about this but hopefully can change the line to “we’ve become a dyad.” But if not, oh well.
Fair enough Hal. I would say it’s best for your main edits to (mostly) adhere to established canon. So don’t bother too much with all of my previous suggestions. Other edits, like Rey Nobody, are specifically made to veer off that course.
Okay, sure, maybe that behavior is unnecessary. It would be nice to minimize that. Although it’s sometimes hard to notice when an argument has effectively looped itself.
But you have to admit that when editing the final movie in a trilogy you can’t just act like the previous two don’t exist in the thread. There has to be a discussion somewhere about how the previous two films can possibly be adjusted so that you can make or not make certain changes to this edit in an intelligent way.
I never said previous movies can’t be mentioned.
I was about to type something else but I’d just be repeating myself (very hypocritical!). I just think we should try to be better about keeping discussions relevant to the edit.
IlFanEditore makes a good point about the TROKR comic, I forgot about that moment with Rey! Just went back and reread that scene, love that they included young Rey sensing Ben’s fall as he kills Ren.
In case anyone is curious, I checked the TROS visual dictionary which says little about the dyad, but I did find it does explicitly state that Snoke knew about it, so that confirms Snoke isn’t literally Palpatine’s eyes and ears.
Wookieepedia also says that the dyad was an ancient Sith prophecy (in the same way that the Chosen One was an ancient Jedi prophecy) which predicted the incredible Force bond between two individuals. This was part of Darth Bane’s inspiration for starting the Rule of Two, and the end goal was for a dyad to form between the ultimate Sith. This is sourced by the TROS novelization and man, I’ve gotta give that a reread.
Given that Palpatine believed he was the ultimate Sith whose purpose was to finally destroy the Jedi (which he was right to believe lol), he attempted to form a dyad with Anakin as his apprentice but it of course failed. I think it’s symbolically beautiful that the two final Sith attempted to form a dyad of the Dark but in the end, the grandchild of each were a dyad of the Light.
Plus it’s cool that Palpatine is initially killed as a result of an ancient Jedi prophecy and then, after messing with Dark-side Force powers to cling onto life, was permanently destroyed by the result of an ancient Sith prophecy.
Is there any way insert in some sort of implication or dialogue to back up the idea of Snoke’s mind bridge being the reason Rey and Kylo become a dyad, so it’d be more inferable by viewers (even those who don’t read edit descriptions)? Like, for example, “You remember when Snoke bridged our minds? Well, because of that we became a dyad,” something along the lines?