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Post #44134

Author
Rebel Scumb
Parent topic
COUNT DOOKU
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/44134/action/topic#44134
Date created
19-Apr-2004, 6:20 AM
but if you look at the Jango fight scene in AOTC, the one on Kaminio. Nothing happens in that fight. Obi-wan fights Jango, its a stalemate, and then Jango flies away. The scene could just as easily have been Obi-wan running out, already too late to catch Jango, and throwing the trackign device onto Slave I.

Sure some people like the scene, I'm not assessing its quality, but the scene does NOT move the story further, the action is all masterbatory.

The asteroid battle is the same way. And I wouldn't midn either if there was some payoff to the whole Jango/Obi-wan storyline, but it gets abandon on Geonosis, and Mace ends up taking out Jango. No pay off. If Jango and obi-wan had rematched in the arena, then it would be the second rematch, and the climax of a story that stretch across the whole film. But such a climax does not exist.

The end duel with Dooku and Yoda has the opposite problem, its all pay off with NO set up. And just like the kaminio rain fight, nothing comes of it. I've done an edit of the movie where Yoda walks in and Dooku immediately uses the force to topple the pillar onto Obi-wan and Anakin, Yoda uses the force to catch it as Dooku escapes. The plot remains completely unaffected, and now as GL would say its faster and more intense.

This is what I think he's getting at with mindless action. These are action scenes for the sake of action scenes. Event he TPM duel is better in that there were perminant results from it, Qui-gon died, Maul died. Obi-wan commited to training Anakin. A lot came out of that duel, plus it was a rematch which added to the drama. But a lot of the AOTC action, and to a lesser extent TPM is just gratitius.

The same thing bugged me in the matrix reloaded. Smith shows up out of nowhere, he and Neo fight for 10 minutes, then Neo flies away, something he could of done in the first place. Then Smith just walks off. Is it a fun sequence? Sure. Did it move the plot forward? no. Hence mindless action.

Where as if you look at ANH or ESb, there's really nothing you could cut out of those movies have them still make sense. Sure the garbage compactor scene could be lost, and maybe the escape fromt he deathstar space battle, but without either the threat of the empire is greatly minimized, and both scenes are embraced pretty much across the board.

ESB is even better, the only scene I can spot that can be cut is the Luke quick chat with the medical droid before the hoth battle begins, and that scene is just there for pacing reasons to put a moment between the scenes that proceeds and follows it.


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I see, Tarkin being in one movie, ANH, is so much more then Dooku. And with that, we learn even less. And as far as Dooku goes period, we do not know how much more will be learned. And I think we learned a good bit about him for the first movie he appeared in, especially compared to Vader's debut in 4.


But Vader and Tarkin are more straightforward characters. They're presented as pure evil and they act accordingly. There's no guess work. Is it less ambitious then Dooku? Of course. But ambition is only a good thing if the end result is good. Dooku was a more complicated character, we weren't suppose to be sure if he was good or evil, or where he fit into the whole scheme of things, but if you have a complex character, you have to develop them. The other thing is its suppose to be up in the air whether he's good or bad, but its so blatantly obvious that he's bad that the effect is lost.

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And here's another thing, hint hint, Dooku being Yoda's padawan was supposed to be a surprise.


I'm sure it was, but honestly who cares? So Yoda trained Dooku, big deal. Since Yoda never even mentioned Dooku up until 5 minutes before this moment, it doesn't really pay off, and if anything it jsut creates a possible continuity issue with the OT.