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Does anyone feel that cinema tough girls have degenerated over the years?

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Princess Leia, the tomboy feminist of the old Star Wars trilogy (1977-1983), is considered by more than a few as a turning point in the development of "tough" female characters in cinema. As we all know, she was tough, she was assertive, and she was one hell of a good shot.

After her, we had Sigourney Weaver's long-suffering Ellen Ripley character from the Alien(s) series.

Then we had Karen Allen as Marion Ravenwood in "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

Followed by Joanne Whalley as sword slinging semi-evil princess Sorsha in "Willow", Linda Hamilton as a buffed up, newly pyschotic, machine gun toting Sarah Connor in "Terminator 2", and Michelle Pfeiffer as the bull-whip cracking, leather clad Catwoman of "Batman Returns".

In more recent years, we've had Natalie Portman taking an unconvincing stab at action heroinedom in "Attack of the Clones", running around in a ripped off shirt to show off her six-pack (which was probably digitally enhanced), followed by an ultra-vanilla Jennifer Garner badly miscast as Elektra in "Daredevil".

And, only a few months ago, we had Keira Knightley as the ass kicking Lady Rambo Guinevere of the 21st century in "King Arthur". For some reason, Knightley's Guinevere wears a light dress during this snow battle scene on an frozen lake while all the men - King Arthur, Lancelot, and the Knights of the Round Table - are all dressed warmly and wearing armor in preparation for a battle with some miscellaneous barbarians. For the film's climax, we get Guinevere running around half naked (sporting what looks like a "chest thong"), decked out in Celtic paint, again while the men are all wearing armor, and somehow she manages to killing a bunch of men who're twice her size, despite the fact that she's too thin and too frail looking to even break a twig.

I'm not even gonna touch the topic of Halle Berry's "Catwoman"...

Lately I'm finding that there really aren't a lot of convincing "tough girls" out there. A lot of them are just underfed waifs who cop an attitude with no real feeling of depth and do the half naked/leather dominatrix get up thing while duking it out with men twice their size in a series of badly choreographed fight scenes. The only ones from more recent years who've been convincing for me have been Carrie-Anne Moss as Trinity in "The Matrix" films and Miranda Otto's Eowyn in "Return of the King".

Keira Knightley's Guinevere is probably one of the more offensive examples - she not only lacks the intensity to be a warrior princess type, but she lacks the physicality to boot (where exactly did those 20 lbs of weight training muscle go?). If you're going to do a tough girl, at least make sure she LOOKS like she can beat the crap out of someone. Lucy Lawless (Xena) looked like she could beat the crap out of someone, Keira Knightley does not. Of course, it all depends on what the tone of your movie is: "Pirates of the Caribbean" was a farce, "King Arthur" was not supposed to be a farce.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

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Ah, good man. I was gonna bitch slap you if you forgot to mention Carrie-Ann Moss and Miranda Otto as good female toughgirls.

I would have to agree with you. But I'm not sure who to blame for this. There are bad writers, bad actors, bad directors, etc., etc., ad infinitum. Maybe it's a reliance on special effects in blockbusters to tell the story. But then this can be nullified by Moss and Otto who were in big CG-laden blockbusters but had good roles and characters.

I dunno who to blame. But it is apparent. And I'm not sure that I'd include Pfeiffer's Catwoman as a good one. Not a big fan of that one myself.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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Maybe because it's a cliche, now. I mean, did you see "Tomb Raider - the movie"? You did? Geez, I'm so sorry, man... Must have been tough...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Jolie is more convincing as Lara Croft than Knightly or Portman as 'tough girls'

Well... At least in the first TR.

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Jolie definitely has the tough girl thing down. Too bad she does it in crappy movies.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Well.. There was Sky Captain...

But then again, that eye-patch was really un-needed.

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Well, I thought Sky Captain was a bad movie so that perpetuates my theory. Sorry, didn't like it at all. Bored me to tears.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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I liked the sepia toned sky captain and art deco style, but its not everyone's cup of tea.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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I liked the sepia toning and art deco style. I hated the storyline and the acting. The ending was terrible.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Where does Milla fall in all this?
40,000 million notches away
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One of the things I appreciate about Miranda Otto was that she remembered to wear the same combat clothes and chainmail armor as the rest of the Riders of Rohan. Carrie-Anne Moss wore real clothes most of the time throughout the Matrix trilogy except for that weird dress when she arrives at the rave in the 2nd film and the leather get up when she goes inside the matrix; her performance is so well tuned that she actually continues to command our respect despite the leather (which has become a cliche, lets face it).

I forgot to put down Milla 'cause I haven't really seen much of her work. I guess I some rentals to make...
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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Milla is failry beleavable as a 'tough girl' I guess. Much more so than Kiera Knightly as Gwen'Avier

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OK here's one tough girl: Tank Girl.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Quote

Originally posted by: ricarleite
OK here's one tough girl: Tank Girl.


Hard for me to think that after seeing her whine and bitch in A League of Their Own.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Tank Girl...now there's a classic movie, she was pretty bad ass too.

Milla is hot (as hell), and imho pretty bad ass in the movies where she is portraying a tough girl. Love the scene where she kicks some alien ass in 5th element.

Also though, whats the other girl thats in Resident Evil with her, dont feel like looking it up. She's in The Fast And Furious too, and also in SWAT. Id have to say she does the tough girl thing pretty good.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Michelle Rodriguez. And she's the epitome of modern tough girl. Also did an indie flick called Girlfight in which she's a boxer and she does so very convincingly. Yes, she's a bad ass.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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I'd forgotten about Michell Rodriguez.

To bad she had to get shot in RE.

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Tis an unfair world.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg