Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD — Page 4

Author: cubebox
Time: 20-Dec-2004 8:32 PM
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Whad does the cost of prints have to do with DVD?

Author: ADigitalMan
Time: 20-Dec-2004 9:01 PM
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MBJ, do you mean the cost of each disc to print? Or the cost of the technicolor prints that were used for reference?

I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 20-Dec-2004 9:26 PM
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"Or the cost of the technicolor prints that were used for reference?"

Exactly.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: cubebox
Time: 20-Dec-2004 10:20 PM
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Ok so what does the cost of one of these IB print's have to do with today's DVDs?

In 1997 the new master positive was made using those technicolor prints as a reference,
and the HD video master was allso corrected the same way. So they allready had
a digital reference. Therefore, in creating these new HD masters for the DVD's, they
didn't have to use the technicolor prints anymore. If they wanted to check for the
color balance, all they had to do is look at the old SE HD master.
The technicolor prints had nothing to do with the new DVD's.

By the way that article is a bit misleading.
The faded colors were not restored for the 1997 release. You can't restore faded colors
in the conventional restoration process.
The color were restored only in the video and TV
release. The 1997 SE prints were made from faded negatives. What Lucas relied on
was the higher saturation and contrast of the new intermediate film stock made in 90's.
This new filmstock compensated a bit for the faded colors. But the negative itself is
as faded now as it was in 1996 before the restoration.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 20-Dec-2004 11:05 PM
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I'm not even sure where this topic is heading anymore. Back to Combustion...

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: cubebox
Time: 21-Dec-2004 8:26 AM
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well, my last post was a reply to your's, so I didn't really direct the thread anywhere mayself with the last post

Author: ADigitalMan
Time: 22-Dec-2004 12:20 AM
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Anybody have an official DVD with a 5.1 mix of a non-English track? I'm trying to locate a 5.1 mix of the ending of ROTJ without the annoying "Wesa Free" over the Naboo celebration. The French and Spanish R1 discs are without this line, but they're only stereo mixes. I'm looking specifically for a foreign language 5.1 without this.

Assuming somebody out there has it, PM me. I don't need the entire disc ... not even the entire track. From chapters 47 onward will suffice.

I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 22-Dec-2004 12:35 AM
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Is "Wesa Free" in all the speakers? You may be able to substitute a few seconds of the one of the stereo lines into the soundtrack of the offending speaker. I rememeber trying to isolate the "Son of the Suns" chant from a single speaker in TPM and ROTJ.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: ADigitalMan
Time: 22-Dec-2004 1:17 AM
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I'm not sure, actually, as the tools I've been using don't give me discrete control over all the channels. I'll email you about a specific idea I have.

I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 22-Dec-2004 1:30 AM
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Besweet will break up the AC3 into 5 discrete channels, and label them for you.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: ADigitalMan
Time: 22-Dec-2004 9:40 AM
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I'm always having trouble with BeSweet, but I'll try again. BeSweet and DVDShrink, two of the most popular tools, are perpetual thorns in my side for some reason. I use Pinnacle for recompressing DVD video. It's slow but the results are usually gorgeous. As for audio, I've done lots of multitrack audio editing in my day (being that I've produced and recorded three CDs now) but I've never mixed to AC3 so it remains an untouched arena for me. I use Sonar for multitracking, but I haven't whipped it out for this project yet. I may need it to mix the 5.1 with crossfades if I can't find a simpler way to accomplish it.

The Womble software has been good at splicing and regenerating AC3 files without the need to recompress. But with ROTJ it's been inescapable, because I used two tracks for Lapti Nek anyway, and now two tracks for the "Wesa Free" -free ending.

Womble seems to stitch together AC3s so long as (a) the file type is a match and (b) only one audio track is used. Otherwise, it forces you to choose MPA or LPCM (which they erroneously label WAV) audio. I usually choose the LPCM, then convert to standard WAV in DVDLab. I'll then normalize the WAV file before recompressing to AC3 so the volume doesn't get totally blown out in the recompression stage.

All this because of some stinking Gungan dialect. *shakes head*

I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.

Author: Zion
Time: 22-Dec-2004 10:59 AM
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So would it make sense for you to use Womble to splice out the "Weesa free" part, break up the 5.1 AC3 into 6 WAVs in Besweet, edit out the Gungan, then recompress the clip to 5.1 DD and splice it back into your AC3 track?

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 22-Dec-2004 11:32 AM
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All except for splicing into the AC3 track. Unless there's software to do otherwise, I would think the whole soundtrack would have to be recompiled. That's why I like using Vegas - it's so easy to mix and match footage and audio. You can slide it back and forth, resize it, and speed it up/down until everything is a perfect match.

Of course, like Combustion, such features take a lot of practice to perfect. I went through several trials with Combustion before figuring out a streamlined way to create the opening crawl to match the EOD Documentary. The programs are very powerful, but you really need to get into the guts of the things to make them do those special tricks.

BTW, did you ever get the Combustion help file and the link to the Vegas sample projects?

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: ADigitalMan
Time: 22-Dec-2004 12:04 PM
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MBJ, I did get the Combustion help file (thanks if I didn't say it earlier). It too was giving me errors, but I was, at least, able to view the help pages one-by-one, though the index was broken. Bizarre. Totally bizarre. But in the installation with the trial version, every single one of those help files was blank. I assume the files didn't compile properly in that version of their installer, but it could be my system.

Zion, the biggest problem I've had with the splicing in Womble is the mismatch in volume between the French/Spanish tracks and the English 5.1 track. Going from 5.1 to 2.0 isn't desired either, hence why this is becoming more complicated. I did this nicely in the stereo track by just replacing the entire ending at the point of the funeral pyre onward with the french language track. Since there is no dialogue, there was no need to return to the English and make yet one more edit. It worked great for the English 2.0 track, once I was able to crossfade the two stereo tracks (again, the volume is not at the same level on the two files.

Now I need (a) to find or (b) to generate a 5.1 track (sans Gungan dialect) for splicing into the original English 5.1, and then (c) figure out how to crossfade it if I can't get the volume to match at the splice point.

Once again, BeSweet is ticking me off, as it won't actually output any WAVs for me (this program never outputs a doggone thing for me). I did try what you suggested ... break the AC3 out into six waves and edit in a multi-track editor like Sonar, which I use in my studio. From there I'd need to figure out how to recombine and recompress into AC3.

Vegas and Combustion are now on the back burner for licensing reasons. I'm an old pro at SoundForge XP so I know I'll like Vegas if I get into it seriously.

I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.

Author: Zion
Time: 22-Dec-2004 1:42 PM
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So you're still having problems generating the WAV files in BeSweet? Are you using the GUI or the command line? I've noticed that in the newest version of the GUI some of the options are a little tricky to find. I wonder if you just have something set incorrectly.

Which channel is it that needs to be replaced? Would it be feasable to replace that channel with one of the 2.0 channels? If there is a difference in the volume you could always try analyzing that part of the original clip to find the dB level, then adjusting the new one to match that level.

If you're having trouble splicing it back into the AC3 track, you might have to just convert the whole thing to WAVs, then reencode to 5.
1.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author: ADigitalMan
Time: 22-Dec-2004 6:54 PM
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I'm up for editing the wav files if that's what it takes even if I load six mono WAV files, I should be able to line them up to the correct frame. I am using the GUI and it may be just my settings. I'm at a bit of a loss, whatever the case.

I'm actually unsure which channel(s) "Wesa Free" is in. I imagine its in the front channels, if not all six. But that is a guess based on very little real info. I've not had a free moment to pop this into my home theatre where the 5.1 is set up to verify.

I'm actually racing the clock on a non-SW project for the holidays, and that's taken up all my energy for the past couple of days. I'm surprised I've made it on here as much as I have, but it's a fair use of my down-time-due-to-compiling.

I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.

Author: Daniel
Time: 26-Dec-2004 1:50 PM
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To those who are participating in this project...

Have any of you compared the '97 SE Laserdisc to the 2004 DVD yet???

I just got through comparing a little of the Faces LD w/ the '97 LD and there is a literally night-and-day difference between the 2. I didn't get around to compairing the SE LD w/ the '04 DVD.

I have an old Pioneer CLD-V2400 w/ composite connection only and comparing the opening scenes of ANH between the 2 the '97 SE is sharper w/ alot more detail in the pictures. In fact the SE LD reminds me of how the movie looked in 1979 in the theaters when watching SW for the first time.

I'm wondering, have any of you "de-SE'ing" participants have gotten a hold of the German DTV version since it's all ready in digital form and might be easier to insert than copying the SE LD then fixing then insetting???

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 26-Dec-2004 3:52 PM
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I know ADigitalMan did this for the Shaw scene. I tried using ther footage from the EOD segment.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Daniel
Time: 26-Dec-2004 7:08 PM
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EOD Segment???

(I'm sure I'll lose my geek card for that question, but...)

Author: Tikigod
Time: 26-Dec-2004 7:26 PM
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He's refering to "Empire of Dreams" from the DVD, methinks.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 26-Dec-2004 8:11 PM
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Correct. There is a 5-second shot of the original Hayden footage in DVD quality.

I'm sorry, but I do have to take away your geek card for that. However, all's not lost - here's your sign.

(Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

)

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: ADigitalMan
Time: 27-Dec-2004 9:50 PM
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Back in town after a much needed vacation. I may be on here less in the coming weeks, but I'll not be absent for sure. I'm going to try to pick up where I left off on ROTJ this week, with what has now become my "reduced SE" project. Not de-SEing the whole DVD, but trying to fix the major things that stuck in my craw. Two are down. One is half way done. To recap what I've done, and what I'm trying to accomplish:

1) I've managed to get Shaw reinserted based on the previous post from the PAL LD (Grisan's post, I believe?). Using only the three Shaw shots edited in-between the surrounding DVD footage, I've gotten a seamless scene recreated in NTSC. Had to convert the PAL to NTSC first, and then using Womble's MPEG Video Wizard, I made all of the cuts in the video and reassembled.

2) A few people have seen my pet project in the SE, which was to re-order and re-edit the "Jedi Rocks" shots over top of Lapti Nek. Since the original film version of Lapti Nek is only available in the film, this was a radically different approach than restoring the SE. The result was getting rid of most of Joh Yowza, not to mention that stupid, stupid, stupid song. It works pretty well if not perfectly, and it quite enjoyable. Interesting trivia: This new sequence takes up exactly the same number of frames as the original DVD. I simply replaced the soundtrack, re-edited the video to match, dropped in some Jabba dialogue to match his taunts to Oola, and it's done.

3) I've gotten the "Wesa Free" line out of the ending of the stereo track by crossfading with the French 2.0 track during the final scenes of the movie (after the dialogue is complete). I have not gotten the 5.1 remixed though, as I'm having a bear of a time editing 5.1 audio. If anybody has a 5.1 track in a non-english language (German for instance) PM me. It may help. I'm unsure if they made a 5.1 mix in any language other than English, but I'm hoping.

As for ANH, so far I've:
1) Deleted the shot where blaster fire is exchanged. Greedo does not shoot.

2) Restored the title card recession using the Spanish angle, and did a video fade into the crawl to help mask the difference in start times. Until I learn how to do masks, this will suffice. It's not exactly as it should be, but it's still better than what we were given officially.

3) Whenever I get a hold of Combustion, I'll start to recolorize Lukes infamous green saber that I can't stop railing on. The demo for Combustion was promising, but the big red X won't fly in actual output.

4) I even came up with an alternate set of subtitles for Jabba. His dialogue is much less redundant to Greedo's now. Knowing this puts me in the minority, I always liked the scene, but now I think it plays much better. Both the original subtitles and my re-edit will be muxed on to my final disc.

I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.

Author: Daniel
Time: 28-Dec-2004 8:14 AM
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ADigitalMan,

1) Check your PM

2) In the "Han Shoots First" scene, did you add back the 2 - 3 frames that were taken out of the OT??? All it is is Han saying, "I bet you have", then a blaster flash, then it transfers to Greedo.

As for the 2-3 frames of blaster flash, I feel you could get away w/ adding just one frame since the first 1-2 frames are just a small bit of the flash that barely shows on Han's boot.

Thanks

Author: grisan
Time: 28-Dec-2004 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan

3) I've gotten the "Wesa Free" line out of the ending of the stereo track by crossfading with the French 2.0 track during the final scenes of the movie (after the dialogue is complete). I have not gotten the 5.1 remixed though, as I'm having a bear of a time editing 5.1 audio. If anybody has a 5.1 track in a non-english language (German for instance) PM me. It may help. I'm unsure if they made a 5.1 mix in any language other than English, but I'm hoping.

I just checked my german original DVDs. The german 5.1 track does not have the "Wesa free" line or a german equivalent. I uploaded a clip of this ending sequence to:
http://ice.prohosting.com/~grisan/.
This is from a PAL source again, so you'll have to change the audio timing from 25 to 24 fps.

Greetings
Grisan

Author: ADigitalMan
Time: 28-Dec-2004 2:03 PM
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Grisan, you continue to be a source of coolness on this board. Thank you. One question: the file had a .jpeg extension on it. Should it have a .mpg extension or an AC3 extension?

Daniel, no frames were added or restored, only deleted. Not a true restoration, but at least a restoration of concept. More later ...

I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.