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What is your gas at? — Page 3

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Knowing that I'm all for alternative fuels and no friend to the Oil industry, it's imperative that we address the downsides of the current alternate fuel strategies, rather than cowing to the blanket response that the Oil cartels don't want us to switch. They don't, but until we can address the real flaws in the alternatives, we'll be a long way from bringing change.

Solar Power:
taken from here
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The solar energy released by the sun may seem like the best source of energy for the world. It has many benefits: it is free, it does not pollute, is very reliable when the sun is shining, and it is very safe. With all of these benefits, it may seem odd that there are extremely few solar power plants on earth. The reasons that solar power plants do not power the world are summed up in two reasons: cost and reliability. Solar plants made of solar cells are extremely expensive to build. Thousands of square feet of solar cells are required to generate enough power for even a very small town. A large city simply doesn’t have enough room for a solar plant, or enough money. The second main reason is the unreliability of the plants. If the plant has a few cloudy days, there will be no electricity for the town. This is not an option for many towns or cities. In the modern age of today, we need to have power 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, not only on sunny days, sometimes at night.

Although solar power has many downfalls, its future remains bright as we develop more efficient cells, and find better ways to use them. The world of the future may be powered by amazing hybrid solar cells, but we must continue to research this useful technology. Scientists are creating new ideas for this technology, but you must continue the search for others!


The statistic I recall hearing was that in order to power the US at its current demand (not accounting for future demand) would take a solar farm approximately the size of Nevada. Therefore, we must make solar panels smaller, more efficient, and less costly in order to see a net savings in energy cost.

That said, the startup cost of "solarizing" your home with roof panels is about $20,000.

My solution:
Houses should be solar equipped with traditional electrical supplies serving as a backup with uninterruptable switching that takes over when failure is reached. Solar panels should be standard equipment on all new construction and should be factored into the cost of the mortgage, amortizing the capital investment over the life of the traditional 30-year loan. The cost savings will be best returned to the consumer this way.

Wind:
taken from here.
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Wind power is not used extensively for two main reasons. The first reason is that the power plants are not reliable enough for modern lives. If there are a few calm days, an entire city could be out of power. The second reason that wind generation is not popular is that the wind generation plants are extremely loud. The sounds of the turbines spinning and generators generating are too loud to be close to any city or town. Although this is an economical and safe means to generate electricity, there are many parts that need to be improved!


In short, this is a good supplemental source of energy, but it is only viable en masse in areas in the midwest where large tracts of open land are matched with regular windy conditions. Innovation is needed to make this a more reasonable source of energy.

Hydroelectric (Water):
Using our poster boy, the Hoover Dam as our best example, we must look at the generation compared to the cost, both economical and environmental:
Hoover generates about 4 billion kilowatt hours a year, enough to serve 1.3 million people (a fraction of one percent of the country). This took the damming of one of the country's biggest rivers, in a place where population was small enough to have minimal impact. Hoover cost $165 million in the 1930s. Adjusted for inflation, Hoover would cost $2,277,813,324, not including all the "new" expenses resulting from union wages and safety measures that would undoubtedly be required. This cost must be passed onto the consumers of the electricity. The initial capital cost of the energy is about $1,750 per customer before distribution begins or a single gross receipt is generated. It's doable, but it isn't cheap to get off the ground, and there are few rivers that offer the hydroelectric potential of the Colorado.

taken from here:
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The second main downside of hydroelectric power plants is the fact that the dam, which is essential to the plant, destroys many habitats. A dam needs to hold a tremendous amount of water, and floods out surrounding forests, deserts, towns and anything else in its way. Lake Mead, supplying the Hoover Dam, has enough water to flood the entire state of Pennsylvania to a depth of 1 foot!


Note: Logisitcs aside, consider how many Hoovers could be built for the cost of the war in Iraq. Or Solar panels for that matter.

I'm tired of writing now.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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What about finding a way to harness the waves of the ocean or the tides?

I understand that no method is perfect, but if you really want to get off oil, there has to be sacrifice somewhere else.
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I agree. But getting off oil means convincing a lot of people with a lot of money and influence. Knowing the arguments against you helps you hone your arguments.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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94.9 pence a litre.
One Pound a litre petrol is nearly here...

On a side note, I only noticed recently that the parking meters on my street are solar powered.

How about if we build huge solar panels in the sky, above the clouds, that rotate so they are always facing the sun, and the electricity is pumped down to earth via huge cables?

That started out as a joke comment but the more I think about it....

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: ricarleite
where you live, is there an alternative source of fuel?

Yeah, apart from diesel we also use LPG Gas, which is now becoming more and more popular. I vividly remember the debate about the addition of vegetable oil component (or whaddyacallit) to fuel.
I saw the original theatrical release of the Old Trilogy on the big screen and I'm proud of it...
How did I accomplish that (considering my age) is my secret...
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There was an interesting case of a local man, who was in the army during the early or mid 80s (cant remember) and actually came up with an idea for using water as a fuel to move cars, more specifically the army jeep cars. He was working at the project, which according to some people involved at the project at that time, was technologically possible. Suddenly, he and his projects dissapeared, people involved never mentions it, and the media never speaks about him. I've read about this case a long time ago and I thought it was not true (the article mentioned the man was in a mental institution), but a college teacher of mine later confirmed it.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Now, I've seen on the news that the gas will probably cost 40% more in a month time in the US. Now, places like Brazil are pretty much self-suficients on petrol, but I've noticed that our price is quite the same as the american. Do you guys think that a raise in the oil price at the US might increase the price in other parts of the world? I mean, it dosen't make sense geographically for such rise to happen, since our oil refinaries and oilducts were not at all affected, but... What I'm asking is, are the prices "connected" in some way? Like a carthel or something?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
There was an interesting case of a local man, who was in the army during the early or mid 80s (cant remember) and actually came up with an idea for using water as a fuel to move cars, more specifically the army jeep cars. He was working at the project, which according to some people involved at the project at that time, was technologically possible. Suddenly, he and his projects dissapeared, people involved never mentions it, and the media never speaks about him. I've read about this case a long time ago and I thought it was not true (the article mentioned the man was in a mental institution), but a college teacher of mine later confirmed it.
From Thinkgeek.com: Water Powered Clock
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isn't it funny how so many really good research project just disapear? I'm talking about the kind of projects that would be cheap to do if they worked, but the big wigs just make them dissapear to protect their money machines.

My buddy was telling me that all a nuclear powered sub does is heat up water. This obviously creates steam. And the Sub is propelled by steam. That's all this awesome piece of technology does, boils water to create steam... He also told me that the only actually working energy that nuclear reactors give off is harnessed by those windmill looking propellars that you see sticking out of the ground. The thing is, this method is highly inefficient. It only harnesses about 10% of the actual energy from nuclear reactors. So that's 90% that is lost and never used. Some technology! He also told me that the some 80% of the energy from those wind propellars is actually the wind itself. And we always thought we were so big for making nukes!
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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Panic buying at the pumps in England due to a rumoured strike by tanker drivers in an attempt to force the government to lower fuel tax as prices pass one pound a litre in parts oif the country. Current price in London is between 95 and 99 pence.

War does not make one great.

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Over here saturday night the price was raised about 10% in the oil refinaries, mostly because of a legalized carthel that operates in this country and raises prices whenever they want to. Since only petrol had a price change, and gasoline is composed of other elements, and the taxes were not raised and the gas price is composed of those taxes, the price for the gas at the gas stations was supposed to raise only 3 to 4 %, and only about a week or two later, when the stations got the new priced gas. Yet, on sunday, gas stations had raised their prices to 10% or more. The TV stations talked to gas stations owners, and most of them said "What can I do? The possibility of a raise has come up, and we did raise it. All the others gas stations are doing the same.", one gas station owner, when asked, merely smiled at the camera, raising his shoulders. Fucking bastards, that's why I hate cars and oil companies. We DON'T have to be their slaves, we can use other fuels and other means of transportations, but they got their claws back into the government's back like a puppet, and making us their bitches...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I cycle when I can (i.e short cross town journeys), regularly harrass my local politician and e-mail the prime minister and sometimes I post flyers (leaving them under the wipers of huge 4x4s is a favourite) for greenpeace but, despite what Ghandi and any other idealist (myself included) says, I am close to concluding that one man can't make a difference in this world. Well, not really anyway. I was actually thinking about this recently because it's the 25th anniversary of John Lennon's murder in december. 25 years after his attempts to use his fame for a greater good, is the world actually any better? Sadly no. People may be a little more aware but that's it. The same can be said for most people's attempts to make a change. Can I make a change, in this fuel issue or any other issue? Even if I become a politician, even if I became president, with all the red tape and ulterior motives and secret meetings in smoke filled rooms, not to mention the apathy of the majority of the population, could I make a difference? Can anyone?

War does not make one great.

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Well I've always thought that I could try changing things, but the only people with power to do it dosen't want to, and the rest of the population is OK being mindless sheep following their masters into the slaughter. So, the only thing a single person could to to improve things is to commit suicide...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Gas prices around here are at $3.29 and still rising.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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Our prices have dropped. We can now find gas as low as $2.83. I actually saw it get as high as $3.31.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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Dang. Never got that high around here. It was just a bit above three, and then sat at 2.99 to 2.96 for a while it might be lower know, but I haven't really been paying attention.

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Gas price here is now $1.14/L, so $4.31 Cdn a gallon. so glad my car gets 32 city/46 highway.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Well I've always thought that I could try changing things, but the only people with power to do it dosen't want to, and the rest of the population is OK being mindless sheep following their masters into the slaughter. So, the only thing a single person could to to improve things is to commit suicide...


I was hoping someone would contradict me with optimistic words, but alas...

Gas here is still roughly 95p a litre, which works out at just under 7 dollars a gallon. The government is refusing to budge on fuel tax. Wankers. Once again I find myself yearning for a cheap, clean, renewable energy source, but I think instead I'll just kill myself. Is anyone able to offer words of comfort to Ric and I, or do you all agree that trying to change the world is a futile, thankless task best left to fictional action heroes?


War does not make one great.