Originally posted by: MagnoliaFan
To say Dooku was pure evil leaves a huge gaping problem.
He offerred to spare the Jedi. He gave them a chance to surrender, in exchange for their lives. Neither Maul, Vader, nor especially Sidious would have ever done that for a couple of hostages.
If you think that wasn't facetious....Once again, you're taking things entirely too simply and too literally and creating new problems to "Fix" something that wasn't really a problem in the first place if you look beneath the surface for more than 2 seconds.
....wha? He's frustrated with the Jedi for the same reason Qui-Gon is. Palpatine gets to him and preys on that weakness. It's much more interesting, to me, to have a Jedi Master get so sick of the jedi that he leaves of his own volition, as opposed to the cliche "Boy who cries wolf" scenario you're trying to shoehorn in. And even with your re-jiggering of the Gunray character, there's NO way he cons Dooku. he's not that good. And Palpatine isn't going to use him that closely.
The Jedi's downfall in the end is no different from the Sith's a millenia prior.
They wipe themselves out with their own infighting and the Sith just have to sweep in and play clean up at the end.
To say Dooku was pure evil leaves a huge gaping problem.
He offerred to spare the Jedi. He gave them a chance to surrender, in exchange for their lives. Neither Maul, Vader, nor especially Sidious would have ever done that for a couple of hostages.
If you think that wasn't facetious....Once again, you're taking things entirely too simply and too literally and creating new problems to "Fix" something that wasn't really a problem in the first place if you look beneath the surface for more than 2 seconds.
The "all Jedi use blue or green and all Sith use red" was destroyed the moment Mace Windu ignited his saber, anyway. What is he, a half Sith? Half blue, half red...
At that moment, saber color became cosmetic.
No it didn't, beacuse all sith STILL use red. There's no destruction there at all. Mace's purple saber doesn't change that Vader, Dooku and Maul all tote red sabers, and it's very well established in the universe that the red saber is the bad one. I'm not trying to argue the purple saber. that has nothing to do with changing Dooku's saber from red (he is a sith) to yellow (whatever the hell that is)
I also don't see how your analogy works at all. Dooku's being a sith isn't really a giant mystery. Certainly not the driving mystery of the flick: Those mysteries are a) who's trying to kill Padme and b) who ordered these clones. And there's NO way Yoda doesn't know it after fighting him.
There are 2 years between movies. Same space of time it took Vader to learn that Luke was his kid from ANH to ESB. It's not at all implausible that the Jedi definitively find out, as we do, that Dooku is a sith. You don't have to "reveal it all over again" because with that time between flicks, you can just have the Jedi know, and the audience will fill in the blanks themselves. real easy. Helps add to the "in media res" feeling as well.
Personally, I think it is more interesting to think that the Nute Gunray and Palpatine suckered in a Jedi by telling him the truth. The truth turns out to be so outrageous that no one will believe him, and the frustration of screaming the truth in a crowded room and going unheard drives him mad, and he ends out decimating his entire order, all in the name of destroying the Sith... And all the while, all Sidious has to do is sit back and watch. The Jedi do it all for him.
At that moment, saber color became cosmetic.
No it didn't, beacuse all sith STILL use red. There's no destruction there at all. Mace's purple saber doesn't change that Vader, Dooku and Maul all tote red sabers, and it's very well established in the universe that the red saber is the bad one. I'm not trying to argue the purple saber. that has nothing to do with changing Dooku's saber from red (he is a sith) to yellow (whatever the hell that is)
I also don't see how your analogy works at all. Dooku's being a sith isn't really a giant mystery. Certainly not the driving mystery of the flick: Those mysteries are a) who's trying to kill Padme and b) who ordered these clones. And there's NO way Yoda doesn't know it after fighting him.
In the end of Clone War, the Jedi are still just as confused, but they are more divided. Yoda is sure that Dooku is the Sith Master. Mace Windu suspects that he is not and wants to keep an eye out for this "Sidious" and Obi-Wan is on the fence about it. Once again, just like with training Anakin, they are divided and incapable of making a decision. The arguement is more interesting in CW, because we don't know which one of them is right. It leaves the audience room to take sides.
I don't buy that at all, either. Unless you're looping new dialog, the jedi aren't divided at all. they're confused and cautious, but they're certainly not "tearing each other apart." or "incapable of making a decision" They made their decision on Anakin. There's no room created for the audience to take sides on, because there's only really two sides anyway--Good and Bad. You're trying to introduce a shade of grey into a subplot that isn't served by it. They know who the enemy is--they just don't know who else he's working with, and they don't really know how to fight him.
And George's version is the one that is going to be redundant in the end, since the Jedi still don't know for sure that Dooku is a Sith in II, only we do. That means that he is going to have to reveal it all over again in Episode III for the Jedi, unless the Jedi are just left thinking they got the master, until Sidious is revealed. In that case, it works just as well that he was not a Sith...
I don't buy that at all, either. Unless you're looping new dialog, the jedi aren't divided at all. they're confused and cautious, but they're certainly not "tearing each other apart." or "incapable of making a decision" They made their decision on Anakin. There's no room created for the audience to take sides on, because there's only really two sides anyway--Good and Bad. You're trying to introduce a shade of grey into a subplot that isn't served by it. They know who the enemy is--they just don't know who else he's working with, and they don't really know how to fight him.
And George's version is the one that is going to be redundant in the end, since the Jedi still don't know for sure that Dooku is a Sith in II, only we do. That means that he is going to have to reveal it all over again in Episode III for the Jedi, unless the Jedi are just left thinking they got the master, until Sidious is revealed. In that case, it works just as well that he was not a Sith...
There are 2 years between movies. Same space of time it took Vader to learn that Luke was his kid from ANH to ESB. It's not at all implausible that the Jedi definitively find out, as we do, that Dooku is a sith. You don't have to "reveal it all over again" because with that time between flicks, you can just have the Jedi know, and the audience will fill in the blanks themselves. real easy. Helps add to the "in media res" feeling as well.
Personally, I think it is more interesting to think that the Nute Gunray and Palpatine suckered in a Jedi by telling him the truth. The truth turns out to be so outrageous that no one will believe him, and the frustration of screaming the truth in a crowded room and going unheard drives him mad, and he ends out decimating his entire order, all in the name of destroying the Sith... And all the while, all Sidious has to do is sit back and watch. The Jedi do it all for him.
....wha? He's frustrated with the Jedi for the same reason Qui-Gon is. Palpatine gets to him and preys on that weakness. It's much more interesting, to me, to have a Jedi Master get so sick of the jedi that he leaves of his own volition, as opposed to the cliche "Boy who cries wolf" scenario you're trying to shoehorn in. And even with your re-jiggering of the Gunray character, there's NO way he cons Dooku. he's not that good. And Palpatine isn't going to use him that closely.
The Jedi's downfall in the end is no different from the Sith's a millenia prior.
They wipe themselves out with their own infighting and the Sith just have to sweep in and play clean up at the end.
there is no Jedi infighting tho, so I don't know where you're getting that. Some of them are more arrogant than others, but there is no hint of any kind of grand split down the center of the Jedi, and certainly not to the point where they end up squaring off against each other. Making the Jedi more like the Sith doesn't help anything but to add some cynicism to a flick that doesn't really need any at that point. If the good guys are really no different than the bad guys at all, in a movie series this morally simple, then there's no reason to bother.
It just boils down to you mistakenly judging the importance of the Dooku revelation, and then editing to try to boost it to the level of the "twist" at the end of ESB.